Why seek "God"?

[toLiJC]

These practices seems very Christ like, to me. Perhaps that's a hint on their source. Being an infinite being, God does have a way of providing infinite faces.

in the biblical scriptures there is speech about one God (namely the Heavenly Father), one Lord/Christ (namely Jesus), one Spirit (the Holy One), one nation (namely the Holy "Israel"), one Scripture (the biblical one), etc., as well as about the fact that there could be many other misleading/false gods, lords/christs, spirits, scriptures, spiritual/religious traditions, etc.

1 John 2:22 (KJV) "Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ(i.e. that Jesus is the only (true) Christ/Lord)? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.",

1 Corinthians 8:4-6 (NHEB) "Therefore concerning the eating of(i.e. as for the act of following/practicing) things(i.e. spiritual/religious things) sacrificed to idols(or: that are unrighteous/heretical), we know that no idol is anything in the world, and that there is no God but one. For though there are things that are called "gods," whether in the heavens or on earth; as there are many "gods" and many "lords(also: many christs);" yet to us(i.e. but actually the truth applying to all humans in this regard is that) there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things, and we for him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things, and we live through him.",

1 Timothy 2:5 (NHEB) "there is one God, and one mediator(also: one Lord) between God and men, the man(i.e. the human (be)souled being) Christ Jesus"

Blessings

 

[ananda]

so what guarantee is there that the personal experience is enough by itself, even if it is quite direct?!, is there any guarantee that the worshiper won't be deceived if he or she relies mainly on what they perceive?!

Blessings

There is no guarantee. But I will say this: beyond personal experience lies the realm of faith, and there is an infinite number of things we can have faith in.

I don't see why I should rely on faith in "the true God Zeus" to save me.

 

[dlamberth]

My experiences are not solely with dogma, but also with higher states of mind. I am merely stating that, in light of my own experiences, I would not call them experiences of the "heart of Christ" or of "Christ". I respect the fact that you do, however.

How would you describe the "Heart of Christ", as you experience it?

 

[dlamberth]

in the biblical scriptures there is speech about one God (namely the Heavenly Father), one Lord/Christ (namely Jesus), one Spirit (the Holy One), one nation (namely the Holy "Israel"), one Scripture (the biblical one), etc...

Sorry, I'm just not able to know my Beloved God in such a limited manor. Especially when I see Him so alive and vibrant within the hearts of others of the various spiritual traditions around the world as well as within life itSelf.

 

[toLiJC]

There is no guarantee. But I will say this: beyond personal experience lies the realm of faith, and there is an infinite number of things we can have faith in.

I don't see why I should rely on faith in "the true God Zeus" to save me.

why exactly "zeus"?!, why not the One Who is really the true God?!

Exodus 3:13-16 (NHEB) "Moses said to God, "Behold, when I come to the children of Israel, and tell them, 'The God of your fathers has sent me to you;' and they ask me, 'What is his name?' What should I tell them?" God said to Moses, "I AM THAT I AM," and he said, "You shall tell the children of Israel this: 'I AM has sent me to you.'" God said moreover to Moses, "You shall tell the children of Israel this, 'The LORD, the God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, has sent me to you.' This is my name forever, and this is my memorial to all generations. Go, and gather the elders of the children of Israel together, and tell them, 'The LORD, the God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, of Isaac, and of Jacob, has appeared to me"

Blessings

 

[toLiJC]

Sorry, I'm just not able to know my Beloved God in such a limited manor. Especially when I see Him so alive and vibrant within the hearts of others of the various spiritual traditions around the world as well as within life itSelf.

but do you really have the Holy One?!, what if it turns out that you are led by another(misleading) god in case you are not careful enough to have only the true One?!

"alive" and "vibrant" do not necessarily mean true

Revelation 13:15 (AKJV) "And he had power to give life to the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.",

Revelation 19:20 (AKJV) "And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that worked miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone."

Blessings

 

[ananda]

How would you describe the "Heart of Christ", as you experience it?

Words and language cannot be divorced from context, e.g. it is a folly to describe a meal as "delicious" without a prior understanding of what the word "delicious" means - in context of prior meals personally eaten and/or how the word was taught to someone by another.

My understanding of the word "Christ" is in context of my prior understanding of the Bible and of the NT - and to a lesser extent, the Gnostic Gospels. With that word - in my mind - comes connotations of "savior", "deity", "judge", "vengeful", "physical existence", "eternal existence", etc. I do not associate any of these traits with the Buddhist Path, or with the Buddha, or with my personal experiences with this Path; therefore, far be it for me to call this Path I have chosen to walk an approach to the "Heart of Christ".

 

[ananda]

why exactly "zeus"?!, why not the One Who is really the true God?!

Exodus 3:13-16 (NHEB) "Moses said to God, "Behold, when I come to the children of Israel, and tell them, 'The God of your fathers has sent me to you;' and they ask me, 'What is his name?' What should I tell them?" God said to Moses, "I AM THAT I AM," and he said, "You shall tell the children of Israel this: 'I AM has sent me to you.'" God said moreover to Moses, "You shall tell the children of Israel this, 'The LORD, the God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, has sent me to you.' This is my name forever, and this is my memorial to all generations. Go, and gather the elders of the children of Israel together, and tell them, 'The LORD, the God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, of Isaac, and of Jacob, has appeared to me"

Blessings

I see no reason for someone inclined to faith to not choose "the true God Zeus" over "the true God I AM", or "the true God Ahura-Mazda", or "the true God Apollo", or "the true God Jesus", or "the true God Aten", etc.

 

[dlamberth]

but do you really have the Holy One?!, what if it turns out that you are led by another(misleading) god in case you are not careful enough to have only the true One?!

I don't have your concern.

"alive" and "vibrant" do not necessarily mean true

"Alive and Vibrant" in the way I used those terms is a result of the juice of God within a person.

 

[Ygrene Imref]

Why do people seek "God"?

Buddhism explains our search in terms of dukkha (aka suffering, discontentment, displeasure, etc.). That is, because of dukkha, we seek out god(s), saviors, prophets, psychics, doctors, politicians, love, food, money, sex, sleep, entertainment, etc.

Why not address dukkha itself, as the Lord Buddha taught, instead of seeking to treat its symptoms? Dig out the roots (of dukkha), instead of endlessly snipping its offshoots.

This is going to be a very cliche answer, but for me it is the truth (not *my* truth, it is the real truth of what happened to me regarding the OP.)




I didn't seek out anything, in fact, I used to be quite perturbed with the world in general, and whatever/whoever was responsible for what I perceived as a horrible reality. I didn't think of the world/reality in general as horrible, but I certainly empathize with the horror. So, I relied on my own intellect - which got me extremely far in my perceived opinion.

I did seek out philosophy, which got me into math. I suppose I can count that as seeking something, but I wasn't really seeking out something beyond me. I was seeking out a code for my own life. Eventually, I picked up philosophical cynicism.

The gods or powers actually sought me out. (That sounds incredibly more narcissistic than the reality.) Rather, I got exposed to many dimensions of reality, as it were. A few were "interesting," many were terrible. Out of the few that stuck, only what one would call Christianity stood out to me (I am well into university by this point.) I entertained it as a "seeker," or agnostic, while I also entertained some Eastern philosophies of spiritualism.

Because I had been exposed to particular dimensions of reality, it became a way to sift what [I reasoned] was legitimate, misinformation, and downright intellectual/spiritual vampirism. Christianity still interested me despite apparent contradictions, mistranslations, mythos and apocrypha. So did Taoism, but not to the same degree. It wasn't until later that I actually made the choice to be Christian - at least what I thought it meant.

Then, I wasn't.

Then I was again.

Then, between the "intellect" of which I prided myself, and some more experience, I no longer had the luxury of claiming ignorance of God - which wasn't missed until it was gone, because the "98.9999%" certainty of God I had still came with seemingly unanswerable questions.

It wasn't a pretty battle - and it was a battle - but for me, I personally chose Christ after doing my own research, from my own intelligence, and by no influence of other people (e.g. I didn't grow up in a Christian home, necessarily.) It wasn't ever a question of suffering in the sense of my personal struggles, or any philosophy that necessitated a need for anyone greater than me. Mine was an issue of literally lusting after knowledge, and becoming my own self-sufficient savior.

But, that was my personal thing... everyone is different.

 

[toLiJC]

I see no reason for someone inclined to faith to not choose "the true God Zeus" over "the true God I AM", or "the true God Ahura-Mazda", or "the true God Apollo", or "the true God Jesus", or "the true God Aten", etc.

what do "zeus", "ahura-mazda", "apollo" and "aten" mean?!, because it is clear enough (at least for most religious worshipers) what "the One Who is really the true God" means (given that the term "god" is the most universal term designating a deity(divine ruler), though it sounds differently in different languages), but such names as "zeus", "ahura-mazda", "apollo", etc. are loanwords in many languages

Blessings

 

[toLiJC]

I don't have your concern.


"Alive and Vibrant" in the way I used those terms is a result of the juice of God within a person.

in the biblical scriptures there is speech about true God and "darkness", the true One is the source of all good things, while the "darkness" is the source of all bad things, the true God is the positive aspect of the divine, while the "darkness" is the negative aspect of the divine, so, though many people have "seen" one God that is seemingly both good and evil, there are two main ones - who is yours?!

Blessings

 

[ananda]

This is going to be a very cliche answer, but for me it is the truth (not *my* truth, it is the real truth of what happened to me regarding the OP.)




I didn't seek out anything, in fact, I used to be quite perturbed with the world in general, and whatever/whoever was responsible for what I perceived as a horrible reality. I didn't think of the world/reality in general as horrible, but I certainly empathize with the horror. So, I relied on my own intellect - which got me extremely far in my perceived opinion.

I did seek out philosophy, which got me into math. I suppose I can count that as seeking something, but I wasn't really seeking out something beyond me. I was seeking out a code for my own life. Eventually, I picked up philosophical cynicism.

The gods or powers actually sought me out. (That sounds incredibly more narcissistic than the reality.) Rather, I got exposed to many dimensions of reality, as it were. A few were "interesting," many were terrible. Out of the few that stuck, only what one would call Christianity stood out to me (I am well into university by this point.) I entertained it as a "seeker," or agnostic, while I also entertained some Eastern philosophies of spiritualism.

Because I had been exposed to particular dimensions of reality, it became a way to sift what [I reasoned] was legitimate, misinformation, and downright intellectual/spiritual vampirism. Christianity still interested me despite apparent contradictions, mistranslations, mythos and apocrypha. So did Taoism, but not to the same degree. It wasn't until later that I actually made the choice to be Christian - at least what I thought it meant.

Then, I wasn't.

Then I was again.

Then, between the "intellect" of which I prided myself, and some more experience, I no longer had the luxury of claiming ignorance of God - which wasn't missed until it was gone, because the "98.9999%" certainty of God I had still came with seemingly unanswerable questions.

It wasn't a pretty battle - and it was a battle - but for me, I personally chose Christ after doing my own research, from my own intelligence, and by no influence of other people (e.g. I didn't grow up in a Christian home, necessarily.) It wasn't ever a question of suffering in the sense of my personal struggles, or any philosophy that necessitated a need for anyone greater than me. Mine was an issue of literally lusting after knowledge, and becoming my own self-sufficient savior.

But, that was my personal thing... everyone is different.

Thanks for sharing. How did choosing Christ helped you to be knowledgeable and a self-sufficient savior?

 

[ananda]

what do "zeus", "ahura-mazda", "apollo" and "aten" mean?!, because it is clear enough (at least for most religious worshipers) what "the One Who is really the true God" means (given that the term "god" is the most universal term designating a deity(divine ruler), though it sounds differently in different languages), but such names as "zeus", "ahura-mazda", "apollo", etc. are loanwords in many languages

Blessings

Maybe they mean "the true God".

 

[dlamberth]

in the biblical scriptures there is speech about true God and "darkness", the true One is the source of all good things, while the "darkness" is the source of all bad things, the true God is the positive aspect of the divine, while the "darkness" is the negative aspect of the divine, so, though many people have "seen" one God that is seemingly both good and evil, there are two main ones - who is yours?!

Blessings

My God is the essence of Life itSelf.

 

[Ygrene Imref]

Thanks for sharing. How did choosing Christ helped you to be knowledgeable and a self-sufficient savior?

I learned the difference between knowledge, intellect, and wisdom - and how powerful it can be when wisdom and intellect work together.

Interestingly, all of that "surrender to Christ" enraged me. It seemed like a meaningless, empty, and metaphorical answer to an abstract question - somehow at the same time requiring physical energy on my part. For a while i "overintellectualized" the phrase exactly like that. So, I didn't realize it then, but part of my "surrender" was realizing I was not my own self-sufficient savior. And, that i actually had to surrender to Christ if i wanted to follow Him.


That is another thing, out of all the experiences in philosophies and reality, and out of the ones that ultimately stuck, Christ didnt become aggressive when I rejected Him, and left "Christiandom." Not all are malevolent if you turn your back, but Christ is also the only connection that picked right back up where I left off - even if I left for a decade or two...

The more I learned, of course, the more I realized I didn't know. And, I realized that for me, personally, the "quest" for some supreme intellect would be marginal in comparison to the actual connection I can make with everything else around me. I also realized a bunch of the moral philosophy I resonated with also resonated with Christianity.

In the end, now I have the luxury of recognizing creation in different "dimensions," instead of being lost in them. Math and physics helps with that, but so do the virtues and correction of Christianity for me. That personal connection with Christ directly and specifically helps me grow as a person, and gain some wisdom even in horrible times. That is why I am stressing personal relationship: He is real, He is alive, and He is Christ - personal and otherwise. But, this experience will NOT be the same for everyone. The full experience - of which I was describing - is personally specific to me down to every minute detail of my person.

 

[dlamberth]

My understanding of the word "Christ" is in context of my prior understanding of the Bible and of the NT - and to a lesser extent, the Gnostic Gospels. With that word - in my mind - comes connotations of "savior", "deity", "judge", "vengeful", "physical existence", "eternal existence", etc. I do not associate any of these traits with the Buddhist Path, or with the Buddha, or with my personal experiences with this Path; therefore, far be it for me to call this Path I have chosen to walk an approach to the "Heart of Christ".

Your clearly tied to and relying on Christian beliefs way more than I am.

 

[ananda]

I learned the difference between knowledge, intellect, and wisdom - and how powerful it can be when wisdom and intellect work together.

Interestingly, all of that "surrender to Christ" enraged me. It seemed like a meaningless, empty, and metaphorical answer to an abstract question - somehow at the same time requiring physical energy on my part. For a while i "overintellectualized" the phrase exactly like that. So, I didn't realize it then, but part of my "surrender" was realizing I was not my own self-sufficient savior. And, that i actually had to surrender to Christ if i wanted to follow Him.


That is another thing, out of all the experiences in philosophies and reality, and out of the ones that ultimately stuck, Christ didnt become aggressive when I rejected Him, and left "Christiandom." Not all are malevolent if you turn your back, but Christ is also the only connection that picked right back up where I left off - even if I left for a decade or two...

The more I learned, of course, the more I realized I didn't know. And, I realized that for me, personally, the "quest" for some supreme intellect would be marginal in comparison to the actual connection I can make with everything else around me. I also realized a bunch of the moral philosophy I resonated with also resonated with Christianity.

In the end, now I have the luxury of recognizing creation in different "dimensions," instead of being lost in them. Math and physics helps with that, but so do the virtues and correction of Christianity for me. That personal connection with Christ directly and specifically helps me grow as a person, and gain some wisdom even in horrible times. That is why I am stressing personal relationship: He is real, He is alive, and He is Christ - personal and otherwise. But, this experience will NOT be the same for everyone. The full experience - of which I was describing - is personally specific to me down to every minute detail of my person.

Thanks. What methods and senses did you use to personally perceive the personality "Christ"?

 

[ananda]

Your clearly tied to and relying on Christian beliefs way more than I am.

Perhaps so.

The word "Christ" is - in my mind - very tied to the various forms of Christianity. When I use that word to communicate with others, most of the time I would say it also forms views associated with Christianity for them. Thus, I have no reason to use that word when a far more accurate word is available: the word "Buddha" and its connotations are more harmonious and meaningful to me.

 

[Ygrene Imref]

Thanks. What methods and senses did you use to personally perceive the personality "Christ"?

Trust was the main method that made the relationship work. I had to trust that the communication between us was legitimate, despite what I or anyone else thought. Part of the reward for the many small strides in trust is the wisdom to make profitable decisions. I had to depend on Him and His credibility, because, "I am a professional in sciences, and I can't have my reputation ruined over what people may think." Of course, that was long before I knew my worth; now I have enough spiritual and personal substance such that I honestly don't care about what people think. I know a lot of people say that, but I really dont.

So, there were more methods than feelings that substantiated my decisions to chose Christ. I had to change my thinking. Feelings in my experience tend to lie, so I do t trust them anyway. That wasn't a basis for my relationship with Christ.

That is another thing, despite what people may think of Christians, Christ didn't discourage me from finishing a thesis, teaching and participating in academia (articles, seminars, etc.) He didn't mind science; in fact it was encouraged. Science and faith are two sides of the same coin.

So, for me it all came down to more of a change of thinking. I didn't have to abandon my identity - even the ruff edges - in order to be a friend and brother to Christ. Even academia requires certain ettiquite in "free-thought..."