WHY SALVATION CAN BE LOST

[Brightfame52]

Yes I already posted on this earlier.

WHAT IS GOD'S GRACE FOR?

God's grace is not for disobedience to the faith. That teaching is not biblical. According to the scriptures God gives us His grace of forgiveness of sin that we receive as a a free gift through faith in the gift of God's dear son Jesus through His sacrifice in paying the penalty of death for our sins *John 3:16 so that we can be obedient to the faith *Romans 1:5 and live in newness of life *Romans 6:1-23.

According to the scriptures God's grace is to teach us to deny ungodliness and worldly lusts, so that we can live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world. *Titus 2:11-12. Gods' grace therefore does not save us so that we are now free to continue practicing known unrepentant sin. Gods' amazing grace is given to save us from sin. *John 8:31:36; John 17:17; Romans 6:1-23; 1 John 2:3-4; 1 John 3:4-9

Some key scriptures worth consideration on the purpose of Grace...

1. Ephesians 2:8-9 [8], For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: [9], Not of works, lest any man should boast.
2. Romans 1:5 [5], By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name.
3. Titus 2:11-12 [11], For the grace of God that brings salvation hath appeared to all men, [12], Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world

.................

Note: According to the scriptures, God's grace is given to us so that we can be obedient to the faith teaching us to deny ungodliness and to live godly and righteously in this present world.

As posted earlier, according to the scriptures, we are saved by grace through faith and not of ourselves it is a gift of God and not of works lest any man should boast *Ephesians 2:8-9. Obedience to God's law is not how we are saved because all of us have already broken the law and are under it's penalty of condemnation and death *Romans 3:9-23; 2 Corinthians 3:3-11. So it is by God's grace through faith that we are saved through Gods forgiveness of our sins.

According to the scriptures, obedience to Gods' law therefore is the fruit of genuine faith of one that is already been given Gods promise of salvation and the fruit of God's work in us *Philippians 2:13 as we believe and follow his word *John 10:26-27. If our faith has no fruit it is dead *James 2:18-20; 26 and our tree will be cast down and thrown into the fire *Matthew 3:10; 7:19-20; 13:49-50; Hebrews 10:26-27.

Therefore we do not abolish God's law through faith like some people teach but God's law is established in the heart by faith that works by love *Romans 3:31; 1 John 5:3-4; Romans 13:8-10. According to the scriptures, sin (breaking God' commandments and not believing and following God's Word) is the difference between the children of God and the children of the devil *1 John 3:6-10; Revelation 12:17; Revelation 14:12; Revelation 22:14. Therefore says Jesus you shall know them (who is from God and who is not) by their fruit. *Matthew 7:16-20; John 15:1-6; 1 John 2:3-4.

According to the scriptures no one receives God's Grace if they do not believe and follow God's Word (see John 3:16-21; Hebrews 10:26-31) and the scriptures teach that no one knows God by not believing his Word and doing what God's Word says according to John in 1 John 2:3-4 and James 2:17-26.

Take Care.

Gods Grace saves, apart from works.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Gods Grace saves, apart from works.

Yes there is nothing we can do to earn God's forgiveness that we receive through God's Grace. However, as shown through the scriptures, Gods' grace is for obedience to the faith *Romans 1:5 and is given to us to teach us to be obedient to what God's Word says *Titus 2:11-12 so that we can walk in newness of life *Romans 6:23 through the power of God's Spirit *Galatians 5:16

 

[Doug Brents]

Gods Grace saves, apart from works.

Yes, God's grace was given to us apart from anything we did to earn it. But it is clear from Scripture that we do not receive His grace apart from faith. And faith, according to many Scriptures but most clearly from James, REQUIRES action to make it real, alive, and worthwhile. Without action faith is dead, and of no value for anything.

 

[Danthemailman]

Compare Rom 4:2-6 with James 2:20-22. Both of them quote the same OT passage, but they make a very different point.

I have compared them and Paul is crystal clear. Romans 4:2 - For if Abraham was justified (accounted as righteous) by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. 3 For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it (faith, not works) was accounted to him for righteousness. 4 Now to him who works, the wages are not counted as grace but as debt. 5 But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness. 6 just as David also describes the blessedness of the man to whom God imputes righteousness apart from works.

In James 2:20, "faith without works is dead" does not mean that faith is dead until it produces works and then it becomes a living faith or that works are the source of life in faith. That would be like saying that a tree is dead until it produces fruit and then it becomes a living tree and the fruit is the source of life in the tree.

James is simply saying faith that is not accompanied by evidential works demonstrates that it's dead. Once again, if someone merely says-claims they have faith but lack resulting evidential works, then they have an empty profession of faith/dead faith and not authentic faith. (James 2:14) Simple!

In James 2:21, notice closely that James does not say that Abraham's work of offering up Isaac on the altar resulted in God accounting Abraham as righteous. The accounting of Abraham's faith as righteousness was made in Genesis 15:6, many years before his work of offering up Isaac recorded in Genesis 22. The work of Abraham did not have some kind of intrinsic merit to account him as righteous, but it showed or manifested the genuineness of his faith. That is the "sense" in which Abraham was "justified by works." He was shown to be righteous.

In James 2:22, "faith made perfect or complete" by works means bring to maturity, to complete like love in 1 John 4:18. It does not mean that Abraham was finally saved based on merits of his works after he offered up Isaac on the altar in Genesis 22. When Abraham performed the good work in Genesis 22; he fulfilled the expectations created by the pronouncement of his faith in Genesis 15:6.

James is also crystal clear, yet you still insist on contradicting Paul and James by putting the cart before the horse and teaching “salvation by works.”

Is one wrong and the other right? If so, which one is right? No!! Both are right. It takes action to make our faith real, alive, and of any value to our salvation

Both are right, yet actions don’t make our faith real, alive. Actions show that our faith is real, alive. You have it backwards. We show our faith by our works. (James 2:18) Show, not establish. Big difference!

Eph 2:8-9 I have already covered.

You mean explained it away.

It cannot be saying that there is no physical action necessary to our receiving salvation, because there are numerous passages that stipulate physical action that leads to salvation.

Ephesians 2:8,9 certainly is saying there is no physical action/works necessary “in addition” to faith in order to obtain salvation or else Paul is lying when he says we are “not saved by works.”

(Rom 10:9-10 for example).

Romans 10:9,10 does not teach that faith and confession are two separate steps to salvation, but are chronologically together, as I already thoroughly explained in post #1292.

WHY SALVATION CAN BE LOST

Titus 3:5 doesn't say there is nothing we have to do to be saved.

Not by works of righteousness which we have done is crystal clear, yet you still insist on “adding” works to salvation through faith, not works, anyway.

It says that God sent Jesus because of His own mercy, not because we were righteous and deserved to be saved. Repentance is not a "righteous" act that deserves salvation. We are already condemned because of our sin. There is no "goodness" that can expunge our guilt and make us right with God. Only His Son's sacrifice on the cross could have done that.

You say this out of one side of your mouth, but out of the other side of your mouth you say something different - “must meet conditions/must be obedient enough to be saved/works salvation.” Repentance is a “change of mind” which precedes saving faith in Christ (Acts 20:21) and is not a “complete cessation from sin or else” condition after faith for salvation as some teach.

But we still must obey Him to receive the benefit of His sacrifice.

Obedience which “follows” saving faith in Christ is works. Why can’t you see that? So how much obedience does it take? You could never be obedient enough to earn your salvation, yet you still seek salvation through multiple acts of obedience/works anyway instead of through faith in Christ alone.

2 Tim 1:9 makes my point for me.

Not at all. It makes my point for me…who has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works.

God's grace through Christ was set out for us before the beginning of time. His grace was for His own purpose, not for our goodness. Yet He set conditions for the reception of His grace, and no one receives His grace who does not meet those conditions.

Here you go again with more sugar coated double talk. Your conditions result in works salvation, in contradiction to salvation by grace through faith, not works. (Ephesians 2:8,9) Period.

There are numerous examples of this in the OT. Naaman, the walls of Jericho, the woman who poured out the oil into all the jars she could borrow, etc. They all received a grace that they could not earn, but they had to meet the condition set forth by the "man of God" before they received the blessing. The same is true of us today. God has set out His blessing (salvation), and He has set some conditions for receiving that blessing. Those conditions are not all listed in one place, and they are frequently bundled into "belief" in Christ. But do you believe in Him if you do not obey Him? NO! You must obey Him, because only to those who obey Him is He the author of their salvation (Heb 5:9).

More sugar coated double talk and the end result is “salvation by works.” I have often heard those who attend the church of Christ use the healing of Naaman when he dipped in the Jordan river 7 times as an example of receiving remission of sins in the waters of baptism. Yet in the first place, if being healed from leprosy is an illustration of salvation, we have another case that reveals one can be saved without any water. Read about it in (Luke 5:12-15). No water is found here.

Second, Naaman was not even a believer until after dipping in Jordan. He said "NOW" (after being healed) I know that there is no God in all the earth, but in Israel," (2 Kings 5:15) and vowed to worship only Him (vs. 17). If we follow this "example," we will have to baptize unbelievers! Naaman received cleansing from leprosy (not eternal life) after he dipped in the Jordan 7 times, but no sins were literally remitted for Naaman in Jordan. Likewise, water baptism does not literally remit sins.

The Bible uses the experience of Naaman as illustrative of the SOVEREIGNTY OF GOD and not salvation by H20. Naaman was a heathen, not a believer, and did not know God until the miracle occurred. The purpose of the miracle had nothing to do with salvation by H2O, but was to demonstrate "there is a prophet in Israel" (2 Kings 5:8) and that "there is no God in all the earth, but in Israel," as Naaman found out. (2 Kings 5:15)

In regards to Hebrews 5:9, who obeys Him? The saved or the lost? I often hear works-salvationists cite this verse in an effort to uphold “salvation by works.”

*Only believers have obeyed Him by choosing to believe the gospel (Romans 1:16) in order to become saved, and only believers obey Him after they have been saved through faith by practicing righteousness and not sin. (1 John 3:9,10) In either sense, only believers obey Him.

*Unbelievers have not obeyed Him by refusing to believe the gospel (Romans 10:16) and without faith its impossible to please God (Hebrews 11:6), so unbelievers do not obey Him no matter how much "so called" obedience that they attempt to conjure up through the flesh in a vain effort to receive salvation based on works. So in either sense, unbelievers do not obey Him.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

I have compared them and Paul is crystal clear. Romans 4:2 - For if Abraham was justified (accounted as righteous) by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. 3 For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it (faith, not works) was accounted to him for righteousness. 4 Now to him who works, the wages are not counted as grace but as debt. 5 But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness. 6 just as David also describes the blessedness of the man to whom God imputes righteousness apart from works.

In James 2:20, "faith without works is dead" does not mean that faith is dead until it produces works and then it becomes a living faith or that works are the source of life in faith. That would be like saying that a tree is dead until it produces fruit and then it becomes a living tree and the fruit is the source of life in the tree.

James is simply saying faith that is not accompanied by evidential works demonstrates that it's dead. Once again, if someone merely says-claims they have faith but lack resulting evidential works, then they have an empty profession of faith/dead faith and not authentic faith. (James 2:14) Simple!

In James 2:21, notice closely that James does not say that Abraham's work of offering up Isaac on the altar resulted in God accounting Abraham as righteous. The accounting of Abraham's faith as righteousness was made in Genesis 15:6, many years before his work of offering up Isaac recorded in Genesis 22. The work of Abraham did not have some kind of intrinsic merit to account him as righteous, but it showed or manifested the genuineness of his faith. That is the "sense" in which Abraham was "justified by works." He was shown to be righteous.

In James 2:22, "faith made perfect or complete" by works means bring to maturity, to complete like love in 1 John 4:18. It does not mean that Abraham was finally saved based on merits of his works after he offered up Isaac on the altar in Genesis 22. When Abraham performed the good work in Genesis 22; he fulfilled the expectations created by the pronouncement of his faith in Genesis 15:6.

James is also crystal clear, yet you still insist on contradicting Paul and James by putting the cart before the horse and teaching “salvation by works.”

Both are right, yet actions don’t make our faith real, alive. Actions show that our faith is real, alive. You have it backwards. We show our faith by our works. (James 2:18) Show, not establish. Big difference!

You mean explained it away.

Ephesians 2:8,9 certainly is saying there is no physical action/works necessary “in addition” to faith in order to obtain salvation or else Paul is lying when he says we are “not saved by works.”

Romans 10:9,10 does not teach that faith and confession are two separate steps to salvation, but are chronologically together, as I already thoroughly explained in post #1292.

WHY SALVATION CAN BE LOST

Not by works of righteousness which we have done is crystal clear, yet you still insist on “adding” works to salvation through faith, not works, anyway.

You say this out of one side of your mouth, but out of the other side of your mouth you say something different - “must meet conditions/must be obedient enough to be saved/works salvation.” Repentance is a “change of mind” which precedes saving faith in Christ (Acts 20:21) and is not a “complete cessation from sin or else” condition after faith for salvation as some teach.

Obedience which “follows” saving faith in Christ is works. Why can’t you see that? So how much obedience does it take? You could never be obedient enough to earn your salvation, yet you still seek salvation through multiple acts of obedience/works anyway instead of through faith in Christ alone.

Not at all. It makes my point for me…who has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works.

Here you go again with more sugar coated double talk. Your conditions result in works salvation, in contradiction to salvation by grace through faith, not works. (Ephesians 2:8,9) Period.

More sugar coated double talk and the end result is “salvation by works.” I have often heard those who attend the church of Christ use the healing of Naaman when he dipped in the Jordan river 7 times as an example of receiving remission of sins in the waters of baptism. Yet in the first place, if being healed from leprosy is an illustration of salvation, we have another case that reveals one can be saved without any water. Read about it in (Luke 5:12-15). No water is found here.

Second, Naaman was not even a believer until after dipping in Jordan. He said "NOW" (after being healed) I know that there is no God in all the earth, but in Israel," (2 Kings 5:15) and vowed to worship only Him (vs. 17). If we follow this "example," we will have to baptize unbelievers! Naaman received cleansing from leprosy (not eternal life) after he dipped in the Jordan 7 times, but no sins were literally remitted for Naaman in Jordan. Likewise, water baptism does not literally remit sins.

The Bible uses the experience of Naaman as illustrative of the SOVEREIGNTY OF GOD and not salvation by H20. Naaman was a heathen, not a believer, and did not know God until the miracle occurred. The purpose of the miracle had nothing to do with salvation by H2O, but was to demonstrate "there is a prophet in Israel" (2 Kings 5:8) and that "there is no God in all the earth, but in Israel," as Naaman found out. (2 Kings 5:15)

In regards to Hebrews 5:9, who obeys Him? The saved or the lost? I often hear works-salvationists cite this verse in an effort to uphold “salvation by works.”

*Only believers have obeyed Him by choosing to believe the gospel (Romans 1:16) in order to become saved, and only believers obey Him after they have been saved through faith by practicing righteousness and not sin. (1 John 3:9,10) In either sense, only believers obey Him.

*Unbelievers have not obeyed Him by refusing to believe the gospel (Romans 10:16) and without faith its impossible to please God (Hebrews 11:6), so unbelievers do not obey Him no matter how much "so called" obedience that they attempt to conjure up through the flesh in a vain effort to receive salvation based on works. So in either sense, unbelievers do not obey Him.

Hello Dan,

I do not think anyone here believes or is telling you that we are justified or forgiven for our sins by anything that we can do, so your making arguments here that no one is making or arguing about. If we are all in agreement that no one is justified by the works of the law what is your argument? You have none because everyone is in agreement. According to the scriptures, faith according to James and Paul is not separate from obeying what Gods' Word says *James 2:13-26; Romans 3:31; Hebrews 11:1-40. Obedience to Gods' Word is the fruit of genuine faith according to these scriptures.

According to the scriptures, we are saved by grace through faith and not of ourselves it is a gift of God and not of works lest any man should boast *Ephesians 2:8-9. Obedience to God's law is not how we are saved because all of us have already broken the law and are under it's penalty of condemnation and death *Romans 3:9-23; 2 Corinthians 3:3-11. So it is by God's grace through faith in Gods' Word that we are saved through Gods forgiveness of our sins being justified by the blood of Christ and his death and sacrifice for our sins given as a free gift to all those who have faith.

According to the scriptures, obedience to what Gods Word says is the fruit of genuine faith of one that is already been given Gods promise of salvation and the fruit of God's work in us *Philippians 2:13 is obedience to the faith *Romans 1:5 as we believe and follow what his word says *John 10:26-27. If our faith has no fruit it is dead *James 2:18-20; 26 and does not lead to obeying Gods' Word then our tree will be cast down and thrown into the fire *Matthew 3:10; 7:19-20; 13:49-50; Hebrews 10:26-27.

Therefore we do not abolish God's law through faith like some people teach but God's law is established in the heart by genuine faith that works by love *Romans 3:31; 1 John 5:3-4; Romans 13:8-10. According to the scriptures, sin (breaking God' commandments and not believing and following God's Word) is the difference between the children of God and the children of the devil *1 John 3:6-10; Revelation 12:17; Revelation 14:12; Revelation 22:14 and according to James there is no such thing as faith that does not have the fruit of obedience to Gods' Word. Gods Word does not teach lawlessness (without law) *1 John 2:3-4. Therefore according to the scriptures, we demonstrate our faith by believing and obeying what Gods' Word says from the heart. Anything else is the dead faith of devils and is not saving faith which is why Jesus says "by their fruit you shall know them" *Matthew 7:12-23.

Genuine faith therefore is demonstrated as believing and obeying what Gods' Word says from a new heart that loves (Romans 13:8-10; James 2:8-12; 1 John 5:2-4) which is God's new covenant promise in all those who have been born again to believe and follow what Gods' Word says (Hebrews 8:10-12 from Jeremiah 31:31-34 and Ezekiel 36:24-27; see also Romans 6:1-23 and 1 John 3:4-9; Revelation 14:12).

Justification from sin therefore is faith alone because there is nothing that we can do to atone for our sins. Sanctification on the other hand is Christian growth and growing in God's grace to become more and more like Jesus as we receive a knowledge of what Gods' Word says and is seen as believing and obeying Gods' Word from the heart as we walk in the power of Gods' Spirit *Galatians 5:16 which is a work of a lifetime and not a one time event *see John 8:31-36; Matthew 11:28-30 but is continuous growth leading to godliness *Titus 2:11-12.

Gods' Word does not teach anywhere in the bible that we can believe in God and not do what God's Word says. James calls this the dead faith of devils in James 2:16-26

Take Care.

 

[Brightfame52]

Yes there is nothing we can do to earn God's forgiveness that we receive through God's Grace. However, as shown through the scriptures, Gods' grace is for obedience to the faith *Romans 1:5 and is given to us to teach us to be obedient to what God's Word says *Titus 2:11-12 so that we can walk in newness of life *Romans 6:23 through the power of God's Spirit *Galatians 5:16

You still adding works to Grace.

 

[Brightfame52]

Yes, God's grace was given to us apart from anything we did to earn it. But it is clear from Scripture that we do not receive His grace apart from faith. And faith, according to many Scriptures but most clearly from James, REQUIRES action to make it real, alive, and worthwhile. Without action faith is dead, and of no value for anything.

You mixing works with grace, it will never work friend.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

You mixing works with grace, it will never work friend.

No, that is not true are all. Your trying to separate faith from obedience to what God's Word says. They are not separate just as Grace is not separate from faith according to Ephesians 2:8-9 and James 2:16-26. According to the scriptures, God's grace is a free gift that we receive through faith and there is nothing that we can do to earn it *Ephesians 2:8-9. According to Romans 1:5 God's grace is for obedience to the faith and Titus 2:11-12 tells us that God's grace teaches us to deny ungodliness and worldly lusts, so that we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world. God grace is not separate from faith that leads to obeying what Gods' Word says and according to the scriptures, James says genuine faith is not separate from obedience to what God's Word says and that anything else is simply the dead faith of devils who believe in God but do not obey what Gods' Word says in *James 2:16-26; see also 1 John 2:3-4.

Take Care

 

[Brightfame52]

No, that is not true are all. Your trying to separate faith from obedience to what God's Word says. They are not separate just as Grace is not separate from faith according to Ephesians 2:8-9 and James 2:16-26. According to the scriptures, God's grace is a free gift that we receive through faith and there is nothing that we can do to earn it *Ephesians 2:8-9. According to Romans 1:5 God's grace is for obedience to the faith and Titus 2:11-12 tells us that God's grace teaches us to deny ungodliness and worldly lusts, so that we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world. God grace is not separate from faith that leads to obeying what Gods' Word says and according to the scriptures, James says genuine faith is not separate from obedience to what God's Word says and that anything else is simply the dead faith of devils who believe in God but do not obey what Gods' Word says in *James 2:16-26; see also 1 John 2:3-4.

Take Care

You still mixing grace with works, cant do it scripturally ! Rom 11:6
And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

You still mixing grace with works, cant do it scripturally ! Rom 11:6
And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

Not true! See post # 1205 linked. According to the scriptures, God's grace is a free gift that we receive through faith and there is nothing that we can do to earn it *Ephesians 2:8-9. According to Romans 1:5 God's grace is for obedience to the faith and Titus 2:11-12 tells us that God's grace teaches us to deny ungodliness and worldly lusts, so that we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world. God grace is not separate from faith that leads to obeying what Gods' Word says and according to the scriptures, James says genuine faith is not separate from obedience to what God's Word says and that anything else is simply the dead faith of devils who believe in God but do not obey what Gods' Word says in *James 2:16-26; see also 1 John 2:3-4.

Take Care.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

You still mixing grace with works, cant do it scripturally ! Rom 11:6
And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

One receives God’s free gift of grace because everyone has sinned and falls short of the glory God. Romans 3:23 We do good works, because this is the fruit of a saved person- one who loves their neighbor, one who loves God with their heart. When you love God with all your heart, obedience is a fruit of love. Exodus 20:6, John 14:15, 1 John 5:3, John 15:10, Hebrews 8:10. You shall know them by their fruits. Matthew 17:15-20 and grace is not a license to sin. Romans 6:1-4. The whole point of the Bible is to be converted in the heart, sin separates us from God, Jesus is calling us to walk in obedience with Him and gives us the Holy Spirit to do so. John 14:15-18, Acts 2:38, Acts 5:32

 

[Brightfame52]

Not true! See post # 1205 linked. According to the scriptures, God's grace is a free gift that we receive through faith and there is nothing that we can do to earn it *Ephesians 2:8-9. According to Romans 1:5 God's grace is for obedience to the faith and Titus 2:11-12 tells us that God's grace teaches us to deny ungodliness and worldly lusts, so that we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world. God grace is not separate from faith that leads to obeying what Gods' Word says and according to the scriptures, James says genuine faith is not separate from obedience to what God's Word says and that anything else is simply the dead faith of devils who believe in God but do not obey what Gods' Word says in *James 2:16-26; see also 1 John 2:3-4.

Take Care.

Yes true. Salvation is by Grace apart from works.

 

[Brightfame52]

One receives God’s free gift of grace because everyone has sinned and falls short of the glory God. Romans 3:23 We do good works, because this is the fruit of a saved person- one who loves their neighbor, one who loves God with their heart. When you love God with all your heart, obedience is a fruit of love. Exodus 20:6, John 14:15, 1 John 5:3, John 15:10, Hebrews 8:10. You shall know them by their fruits. Matthew 17:15-20 and grace is not a license to sin. Romans 6:1-4. The whole point of the Bible is to be converted in the heart, sin separates us from God, Jesus is calling us to walk in obedience with Him and gives us the Holy Spirit to do so. John 14:15-18, Acts 2:38, Acts 5:32

Good works come after one is saved Eph 2:10 ! Remember that. However before one is saved, they cant do any good works to get saved, its all by grace. Neither do the child of God do good works to stay saved, thats by grace as well.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Yes true. Salvation is by Grace apart from works.

No one is saying that you need works to have God's grace. So your making claims and arguments no one is arguing about. So once again if no one believes that we receive God's Grace by the works of the law what is your argument? You have none because we are in agreement. According to the scriptures we receive God's grace through faith as a free gift from God and there is nothing that we can do to earn it *Ephesians 2:8-9. What your disregarding here however is that we receive Gods' Grace through faith and according to the scriptures, genuine faith according to James 2:16-26 is not separate from obeying what God's Word says as the purpose of God's Grace is for obedience to the faith according to Paul in Romans 1:5 and is to teach us to live our lives of holiness and Godliness in this present world *see Titus 2:11-12; Romans 6:1-23. No one receives Gods' grace if they do not have faith and genuine faith leads us to obeying what Gods' Word says. This is why James says that if our faith does not lead us to obey what God's word says all we have is the dead faith of the devils in James 2:16-26.

 

[rwe2156]

I’m sorry, but Scripture is very clear, and you can be 100% sure. This has been debated for millennia because Satan is the ultimate liar, man’s heart is wicked and easily swayed away from God, and it is easier to believe that we don’t have to physically do anything than it is to obey.

It is very clear that “he who believes and is baptized will be saved”, “if you confess with the mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart … you will be saved”, and “Repent … that your sins may be blotted out”. Now, understanding that there is only one author of Scripture, and that He does not make mistakes or say things incorrectly, all of these statements must be equally true and applicable at the same time to every person. All of them are required for any individual to receive salvation.

Had to grin @ “He does not say things incorrectly” and here we are with our faulty minds and corrupt hearts trying to teach others Truth as we understand it.

“Only believe” is most certainly the only requirement for salvation, don’t confuse that with sanctification. The question of can you lose your salvation must inherently linked to how understand that salvation was initiated.

Yes, there is an act - an act by a converted person, a person who has already received the Spirit. Scripture is also clear that no one can say those things without the Spirit.

But to the point, you are very confused saying these acts are how we receive salvation! No sir, they are evidences of conversion. These people have already received the Holy Spirit. No one can say Jesus is Lord without the Spirit. External actions are most certainly not how we get there, WADR to Billy Graham and every other altar call preacher out there.

The “physical” part is merely external, what has happened in a person’s heart neither was initiated by them nor maintained by them - we are inexorably and eternally changed. There are mass murderers who make it and preachers who don’t.

Scripture is also clear that you can confess with the lips, but your heart can be far from him. You can say “Lord, Lord” and He doesn’t know you.

If it were maintained by us, then it would have to be initiated by us. Gran could never be entrusted to maintain what God has started. No, “He will see it through to the end.” That doesn’t make us robots, God sends to Holy Spirit to help us — everyone’s sanctification is different.

It is impossible to be “100% sure” of anything we say or do, but be sure if this - if it depended on man, no one would be saved. For all those who flagellate themselves - that is a salvation based on fear.

 

[Brightfame52]

No one is saying that you need works to have God's grace. So your making claims and arguments no one is arguing about. So once again if no one believes that we receive God's Grace by the works of the law what is your argument? You have none because we are in agreement. According to the scriptures we receive God's grace through faith as a free gift from God and there is nothing that we can do to earn it *Ephesians 2:8-9. What your disregarding here however is that we receive Gods' Grace through faith and according to the scriptures, genuine faith according to James 2:16-26 is not separate from obeying what God's Word says as the purpose of God's Grace is for obedience to the faith according to Paul in Romans 1:5 and is to teach us to live our lives of holiness and Godliness in this present world *see Titus 2:11-12; Romans 6:1-23. No one receives Gods' grace if they do not have faith and genuine faith leads us to obeying what Gods' Word says. This is why James says that if our faith does not lead us to obey what God's word says all we have is the dead faith of the devils in James 2:16-26.

You still adding works, obedience. Thats works and against Salvation by grace !

 

[LoveGodsWord]

You still adding works, obedience. Thats works and against Salvation by grace !

That is a claim you keep making that simply has no truth in it. Post me a link from anywhere in this forum where I have ever said we receive Gods' grace through the works of the law? If I have never said or made such claims why are you pretending that I have? Your making claims here that are not truthful as I do not believe we receive grace by the works of the law. Obedience to Gods Word however, is not separate from genuine faith according to the scriptures (already posted) that we receive Gods' Grace through.

Take Care.

 

[Danthemailman]

Good works come after one is saved Eph 2:10 ! Remember that. However before one is saved, they cant do any good works to get saved, its all by grace. Neither do the child of God do good works to stay saved, thats by grace as well.

Amen! From beginning “have been saved through faith” (Ephesians 2:8) to end “receiving the end of your faith—the salvation of your souls” (1 Peter 1:9) salvation is by grace through faith and is NOT BY WORKS. That’s not hard to understand. It’s just hard for certain people to ACCEPT.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

From beginning “have been saved through faith” (Ephesians 2:8) to end “receiving the end of your faith—the salvation of your souls” (1 Peter 1:9) salvation is by grace through faith and is NOT BY WORKS. That’s not hard to understand. It’s just hard for certain people to ACCEPT.

Funny thing though, no one is telling you that we are saved by works so I still do not know what your arguing about if I am being honest with you. I did not see anywhere that the person you are posting to is saying we are saved by our works and not by God's free gift of Grace that we receive through faith *Ephesians 2:8-9. Genuine question though. Do we show our faith by believing and following what Gods' Word says or by believing and not obeying what Gods' Word says in your view *see James 2:16-26?

 

[Brightfame52]

That is a claim you keep making that simply has no truth in it. Post me a link from anywhere in this forum where I have ever said we receive Gods' grace through the works of the law? If I have never said or made such claims why are you pretending that I have? Your making claims here that are not truthful as I do not believe we receive grace by the works of the law. Obedience to Gods Word however, is not separate from genuine faith according to the scriptures (already posted) that we receive Gods' Grace through.

Take Care.

It is true, you condition salvation on mans doing !