WHY SALVATION CAN BE LOST

[LoveGodsWord]

Your reply was not correct, LGW.

You said this, 'All the law does in the new covenant is to give us a knowledge of what sin is when we break it.'

You don't need to break any law to understand what sin is?

Well that is something your welcome to prove but you haven't done that. Here your only quoting yourself in opposition to the scriptures that have been shared that are in disagreement with you. So you quoting you does not supersede the scriptures which are Gods Words not mine. According to the scriptures only Gods' Word is true and we should believe and follow them according to Romans 3:4

Where did you get that idea from?

God's Word right here *Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4 and James 2:10-11.

Happy Sabbath.

 

[klutedavid]

Well that is something your welcome to prove. Here your only quoting yourself in opposition to the scriptures that have been shared that are in disagreement with you. So you quoting you does not supersede the scriptures which are Gods Words not mine. According to the scriptures only Gods' Word is true and we should believe and follow them according to Romans 3:4

You can be told that, if you afflict an orphan that is a sin. Obviously LGW, you don't have to afflict an orphan to understand how dark a sin that is.

I am shocked that you believe a law must be broken, before you know it is a sin.

Do I have to kill someone before I know that murder is a sin?

 

[LoveGodsWord]

You can be told that, if you afflict an orphan that is a sin. Obviously LGW, you don't have to afflict an orphan to understand how dark a sin that is.

I am shocked that you believe a law must be broken, before you know it is a sin.

Do I have to kill someone before I know that murder is a sin?

According to the scripture when God gives those who obey him His Spirit (Acts of the Apostles 5:32) it is the Spirit of God that convicts us of sin and of righteousness and of the judgement to come *John 16:8. God's Spirit is the Spirit of the Word of God *John 6:63. Therefore if someone who is a Christian does not know something is sin in times of ignorance God winks at but when God gives us a knowledge of the truth of His Word he calls all men every where to believe and follow what His Word says (Acts of the Apostles 17:30-31; James 4:17). If God therefore gives us a knowledge of the truth of His Word and we choose to reject His Word in unbelief and continue in known unrepentant sin according to the scriptures there remains no more sacrifice for sin but a fearful looking forward of judgement to come which will devour the adversaries *Hebrews 10:26-27.

Take Care.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Actually you were giving your opinion. You gave your opinion on an interpretation of the scripture you provided

No, the verse didn't need any "opinion". Words mean things, which you don't seem to accept. Plain language is just that; plain language.

then once it was investigated it was not saying what you were claiming it was saying.

Oh, really? When and by WHOM did that happen? Please provide the post # so I can see for myself.

Your opinion was refuted with scripture evidence.

This is always the tactic. I don't have an opinion. I have Scripture itself.

Jesus said that recipients of eternal life shall never perish. Where was that refuted? Nowhere.

(see first three posts on this page and all through this thread including the OP).

Take Care

I did and there was NO refutation of Jesus' words.

What neither you nor any Arminian has done is explain what Jesus was teaching in John 10:28, if not eternal security.

Care to try?

 

[klutedavid]

According to the scripture when God gives those who obey him His Spirit (Acts of the Apostles 5:32) it is the Spirit of God that convicts us of sin and of righteousness and of the judgement to come *John 16:8. God's Spirit is the Spirit of the Word of God *John 6:63. Therefore if someone who is a Christian does not know something is sin in times of ignorance God winks at but when God gives us a knowledge of the truth of His Word he calls all men every where to believe and follow what His Word says (Acts of the Apostles 17:30-31; James 4:17). If God therefore gives us a knowledge of the truth of His Word and we choose to reject His Word in unbelief and continue in known unrepentant sin according to the scriptures there remains no more sacrifice for sin but a fearful looking forward of judgement to come which will devour the adversaries *Hebrews 10:26-27.

Take Care.

You are having trouble with understanding your own comment.

You said this, 'All the law does in the new covenant is to give us a knowledge of what sin is when we break it.'

Yet again LGW, do you need to break a law before you can know it is a sin?

You definitely stated that the knowledge of sin is based on breaking the law.

That is not what the scripture says LGW.

You need to retract your comment.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

No, the verse didn't need any "opinion". Words mean things, which you don't seem to accept. Plain language is just that; plain language.


Oh, really? When and by WHOM did that happen? Please provide the post # so I can see for myself.


This is always the tactic. I don't have an opinion. I have Scripture itself.

Jesus said that recipients of eternal life shall never perish. Where was that refuted? Nowhere.


I did and there was NO refutation of Jesus' words.

What neither you nor any Arminian has done is explain what Jesus was teaching in John 10:28, if not eternal security.

Care to try?

I am sorry, but I do not believe you. See posts # 421; post # 422; post # 423 linked showing why.

Take Care.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

You are having trouble with understanding your own comment.

You said this, 'All the law does in the new covenant is to give us a knowledge of what sin is when we break it.'

Yet again LGW, do you need to break a law before you can know it is a sin?

You definitely stated that the knowledge of sin is based on breaking the law.

That is not what the scripture says LGW.

You need to retract your comment.

I am sorry I respectfully disagree. I prefer the scriptures as provided earlier.

Romans 3:20 [20], Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

Romans 7:7 [7], What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. No, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, You shall not covet.

1 John 3:4 [4], Whoever commits sin transgresses also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

James 2:10-11 [10], For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all. [11], For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if you commit no adultery, yet if you kill, you are become a transgressor of the law.

..............

Our opinions do not really matter much in God's eyes. Only Gods' Word is true and we should believe and follow them *Romans 3:4; Acts of the Apostles 5:29. Of course you are entitled to your opinion. That is between you and God who will judge us according to all the words of God we choose to accept and reject according to Jesus in John 12:47-48.

HAPPY SABBATH

 

[FreeGrace2]

I am sorry, but I do not believe you. See posts # 421; post # 422; post # 423 linked showing why.

Take Care.

I am sorry, but I do not believe you. See posts # 421; post # 422; post # 423 linked showing why.

Take Care.

Rather, your attempted refutation based on these 3 posts shows that you do not believe what Jesus said in either John 5:24 or John 10:28.

John 5:24 shows WHEN a person possesses eternal. "those who believe" is when. When they believe. So your "take" (opinion, assumptions, presumptions, guesses) are invalid.

Jesus was clear. Those believing HAVE eternal life. Couldn't be more clear as to when one possesses eternal life.

Now, hold that thought.

Jesus said that recipients of eternal life (which is WHEN one believes per Jn 5:24) shall never perish.

Again, couldn't be any more clear.

Those who receive eternal life shall never perish.

All I'm doing is quoting what Jesus said, and yet, you, who claim to "love God's Word", say that you don't believe me.

Kinda like what Jesus said to the Pharisees once:

John 10-
37 Do not believe me unless I do the works of my Father.
38 But if I do them, even though you do not believe me, believe the works, that you may know and understand that the Father is in me, and I in the Father.”

I would say, "do not believe me unless I directly quote what Jesus said.
But, if I do quote Jesus' words, even though you do not believe me, BELIEVE what Jesus said, that you may know and understand what Jesus said.

You certainly have not refuted the clear words of Jesus.

He said that those believing possess eternal life. John 5:24
He said that recipients of eternal life shall never perish. John 10:28

You have NOT shown that either verse says something else.

Oh, and in addition, you tried to insinuate that a person only possesses eternal life as long as they are believing. So where is the verse that anyone who ceases to believe forfeits eternal life? You know good and well that there are no such verses.

And EVEN if someone did leave the faith, because they DID believe, they were given eternal life, and on THAT BASIS, shall never perish.

All of this is based on the very clear and straightforward words of Jesus in 2 verses.

None of which you can refute.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Rather, your attempted refutation based on these 3 posts shows that you do not believe what Jesus said in either John 5:24 or John 10:28.

John 5:24 shows WHEN a person possesses eternal. "those who believe" is when. When they believe. So your "take" (opinion, assumptions, presumptions, guesses) are invalid.

Jesus was clear. Those believing HAVE eternal life. Couldn't be more clear as to when one possesses eternal life.

Now, hold that thought.

Jesus said that recipients of eternal life (which is WHEN one believes per Jn 5:24) shall never perish.

Again, couldn't be any more clear.

Those who receive eternal life shall never perish.

All I'm doing is quoting what Jesus said, and yet, you, who claim to "love God's Word", say that you don't believe me.

Kinda like what Jesus said to the Pharisees once:

John 10-
37 Do not believe me unless I do the works of my Father.
38 But if I do them, even though you do not believe me, believe the works, that you may know and understand that the Father is in me, and I in the Father.”

I would say, "do not believe me unless I directly quote what Jesus said.
But, if I do quote Jesus' words, even though you do not believe me, BELIEVE what Jesus said, that you may know and understand what Jesus said.

You certainly have not refuted the clear words of Jesus.

He said that those believing possess eternal life. John 5:24
He said that recipients of eternal life shall never perish. John 10:28

You have NOT shown that either verse says something else.

Oh, and in addition, you tried to insinuate that a person only possesses eternal life as long as they are believing. So where is the verse that anyone who ceases to believe forfeits eternal life? You know good and well that there are no such verses.

And EVEN if someone did leave the faith, because they DID believe, they were given eternal life, and on THAT BASIS, shall never perish.

All of this is based on the very clear and straightforward words of Jesus in 2 verses.

None of which you can refute.

Sorry I do not believe you. Your post here is repetition unresponsive to the scriptures already provided in the linked posts that already address this post that disagree with you. See posts # 421; post # 422; post # 423 linked showing why.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Our opinions do not really matter much in God's eyes.

That's for sure. What is sad that you think my quoting of Jesus' words in 2 verses amounts to just my opinion.

I quote straight from what Jesus SAID and you say you disagree with me. Amazing. I have to wonder about your handle when you do that.

Only Gods' Word is true and we should believe and follow them

You need to start with John 5:24 and John 10:28. And then please explain to me what Peter meant in 1 Pet 1:23 - For you have been born again, not of perishable seed, but of imperishable, through the living and enduring word of God.

By explaining, I mean explain HOW a person who has been born again and given eternal life can perish when they have been born again of IMPERISHABLE seed.

How does that work, exactly?

Of course you are entitled to your opinion. That is between you and God who will judge us according to all the words of God we choose to accept and reject according to Jesus in John 12:47-48.

Don't forget John 5:24, John 10:28 and 1 Peter 1:23.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

That's for sure. What is sad that you think my quoting of Jesus' words in 2 verses amounts to just my opinion.

I quote straight from what Jesus SAID and you say you disagree with me. Amazing. I have to wonder about your handle when you do that.


You need to start with John 5:24 and John 10:28. And then please explain to me what Peter meant in 1 Pet 1:23 - For you have been born again, not of perishable seed, but of imperishable, through the living and enduring word of God.

By explaining, I mean explain HOW a person who has been born again and given eternal life can perish when they have been born again of IMPERISHABLE seed.

How does that work, exactly?


Don't forget John 5:24, John 10:28 and 1 Peter 1:23.

I am sorry we will agree to disagree. See posts # 421; post # 422; post # 423 linked that showing why I do not believe you.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Sorry I do not believe you.

What you are not believing is the words of Jesus that I am quoting.

You believe that someone who HAS believed and received eternal life CAN perish, even though they were born again with IMPERISHABLE SEED.

Yet, you cannot explain how that works.

Your post here is repetition unresponsive to the scriptures already provided in the linked posts that already address this post that disagree with you.

There are no verses that disagree with me. It is you who is trying to pit verses against each other, as if somehow your verses trump the ones I quote.

See posts # 421; post # 422; post # 423 linked showing why.

You failed terribly to prove anything other than how much you misunderstand God's Word.

1 Pet 1:23 says the believer is born again of IMPERISHABLE SEED. So explain how seed that is imperishable can perish.

 

[Irkle Berserkle]

I believe it's misleading to talk of salvation being "lost." More accurately, salvation isn't achieved unless one continues in the faith until the end of one's earthly journey. It isn't something you "used to have" but then "lost."

 

[FreeGrace2]

I am sorry we will agree to disagree. See posts # 421; post # 422; post # 423 linked that showing why I do not believe you.

So now you're down to just copy and paste for your responses.

I guess you are done. You have no reasonable or rational response to what Jesus said in John 5:24, 10:28 and what Peter said in 1 Pet 1:23.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

What you are not believing is the words of Jesus that I am quoting.

You believe that someone who HAS believed and received eternal life CAN perish, even though they were born again with IMPERISHABLE SEED.

Yet, you cannot explain how that works.


There are no verses that disagree with me. It is you who is trying to pit verses against each other, as if somehow your verses trump the ones I quote.


You failed terribly to prove anything other than how much you misunderstand God's Word.

1 Pet 1:23 says the believer is born again of IMPERISHABLE SEED. So explain how seed that is imperishable can perish.

I believe the words of Jesus. Just not your interpretation of them as shown why in posts # 421; post # 422; post # 423 linked.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

So now you're down to just copy and paste for your responses.

I guess you are done. You have no reasonable or rational response to what Jesus said in John 5:24, 10:28 and what Peter said in 1 Pet 1:23.

Yes because your just repeating the same things already addressed in detailed scripture responses in posts # 421; post # 422; post # 423 linked that disagree with your interpretation of these scriptures that you have been non-responsive to.

 

[FreeGrace2]

I believe it's misleading to talk of salvation being "lost." More accurately, salvation isn't achieved unless one continues in the faith until the end of one's earthly journey. It isn't something you "used to have" but then "lost."

Do you know that this is in direct contradiction to what Jesus said in plain words?

John 5:24 - “Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life.

iow, "those believing HAVE (possess) eternal life.

John 10:28 - I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand.

iow, recipients of eternal life SHALL NEVER PERISH.

1 Peter 1:23 - For you have been born again, not of perishable seed, but of imperishable, through the living and enduring word of God.

Please explain how one born of IMPERISHABLE SEED can perish.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

I believe it's misleading to talk of salvation being "lost." More accurately, salvation isn't achieved unless one continues in the faith until the end of one's earthly journey. It isn't something you "used to have" but then "lost."

That is what the bible says not me in Hebrews 6:4-8 and Hebrews 10:26-31. If we depart the faith in order to continue in known unrepentant sin and unbelief we will be lost. It is true we need to continue in the faith until the end. If we do not we are warned we can lose our salvation.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Yes because your just repeating the same things already addressed

With a handle of loveGod'sword, why don't you believe what Jesus said in the 2 verses I keep quoting directly from His mouth?

with a detailed scripture response in posts # 421; post # 422; post # 423 linked that disagree with your interpretation of theses scriptures that you have been non-responsive to.

Once again, your claim that I am interpreting these 2 verses is FALSE. I don't know whether your claim is done in abject ignorance or intentionallly. Only you and God know which one it is.

Since you disagree with my quoting of Jesus' words, why haven't you explained WHAT Jesus was teaching in John 10:28?

And while you are at it, explain how one born again with IMPERISHABLE SEED can perish, since that is your position.

You should be able to defend your position if it is biblical.

If not, well, that will become rather obvious.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Do you know that this is in direct contradiction to what Jesus said in plain words?

John 5:24 - “Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life.

iow, "those believing HAVE (possess) eternal life.

John 10:28 - I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand.

iow, recipients of eternal life SHALL NEVER PERISH.

1 Peter 1:23 - For you have been born again, not of perishable seed, but of imperishable, through the living and enduring word of God.

Please explain how one born of IMPERISHABLE SEED can perish.

Addressed in a detailed scripture response that you have been unresponsive to in posts # 421; post # 422; post # 423 linked. Sorry I do not believe you. The context of every scripture you have provided are to those who are believing not unbelieving or someone that was believing and has since departed the faith to become unbelieving *Hebrews 10:26-31. The seed is "the word of God" (Luke 8:11) that we receive through faith. Someone who departs the faith is no longer "believing but is unbelieving"

Take care.