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Why people reject the reality of Hell

Der Alte

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Me, I have to wonder how people manage to believe that God is a pitiless fiend who has decreed that sinners be tortured forever for no discernble reason.
Was Jesus lying in Matt 25:46?
EOB Matthew:25:46 When he will answer them, saying: ‘Amen, I tell you: as much as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to me.’ 46 These [ones on the left] will go away into eternal [αἰώνιος/aionios] punishment, [κόλασις/kolasis] but the righteous into eternal [αἰώνιος/aionios] life.”​
Greek has been the language of the Eastern Greek Orthodox church since its inception, 2000 years ago +/-. Note, the native Greek speaking Eastern Orthodox Greek scholars, translators of the EOB, translated “aionios,” in Matt 25:46, as “eternal,” NOT “age.”
Who better than the team of native Greek speaking scholars, translators of the Eastern Greek Orthodox Bible [EOB], quoted below, know the correct meaning of the Greek words in the N.T.?
Link to EOB online:
The New Testament ( The Eastern-Greek Orthodox Bible) : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive
…..The Greek word “κόλασις/kolasis” occurs only twice in the N.T., 1st occurrence Matt 25:46, above, and the 2nd occurrence 1 John 4:18., below.
EOB 1 John 4:18 There is no fear in love, but perfect love casts out fear, because fear is connected with punishment.[ κόλασις/kolasis] But the one who fears is not yet perfect in love.​
In the EOB the Greek word “kolasis” is translated “punishment” in both Matt 25:46 and 1 John 4:18. Some misinformed folks claim “kolasis” really means “prune” or “correction.” However, that is an etymological fallacy. According to the EOB Greek scholars it means “punishment.”
Note: in 1 John 4:18 there is no correction, the one with “kolasis” is not made perfect. Thus “kolasis” does not/cannot mean “correction.”
…..It is acknowledged that modern Greek differs from koine Greek but I am confident that the Greek speaking EOB scholars are competent enough to know the correct meanings of old words which may have changed in meaning or are no longer used and translate them correctly. Just as scholars today know the meaning of archaic words which occur in the KJV and translate them correctly.
= = = =
“aionios” occurs 79x in the N.T.
“aionios” is translated world only 3 times in the N.T. [.03%]
“aionios” is correctly translated eternal 42 times in the N.T. [53%]
“aionios” is correctly translated everlasting 25 times in the N.T. [35%]
Jesus used “aionios” twenty-eight [28] times, 26% of the total. Jesus never used “aionios” to refer something common, ordinary or mundane which was not/could not be “eternal.”
= = = = =
Juxtapose means, the act or an instance of placing two or more things side by side often to compare or contrast.
…..Some people claim that “aionios” never means eternity/eternal/everlasting because it sometimes refers to something which is not/cannot be eternal, e.g. “world,””age.” etc.
However, “aionios” is never defined/described, by adjectives or descriptive phrases, as meaning a period of time less than eternal, in the New Testament, as in the following 24 verses.
…..Jesus used “aionios” twenty eight [28] times. He never used “aionios” to refer to anything common, ordinary or mundane that was not or could not be eternal.
John 10:28
(28) I give them eternal [αιωνιον/aionion] life, and they shall never [εἰς τὸν αἰῶνα/ eis ton aiona][lit. unto eternity] perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand.​
In this verse Jesus parallels “aiona” with “[not] snatch them out of my hand.” If “aiona” means “age(s), a finite period,” that is not the opposite of “[not] snatch them out of my hand’” “Aionios life” by definition here means “eternal life.”
John 3:15
(15) That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal [aionion] life.
John 3:16
(16) For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting [aionion] life.​
In these two verses Jesus parallels “aionion” with “should not perish,” twice! Believers could eventually perish in a finite period, thus by definition “aionion life” here means eternal or everlasting life.
Romans 1:20
(20) For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal [aidios] power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
Romans 16:26
(26) But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting [aionios] God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:​
In Rom 1:20 Paul refers to God’s power and Godhead as “aidios.” Scholars agree “aidios” unquestionably means eternal, everlasting, forever, unending etc. In Rom 16:26, Paul, the same writer, in the same writing, book of Romans, refers to God as “aionios.” Paul has used “aidios” synonymous with “aionios.” Thus in this verse by definition “aionios” means eternal, everlasting.
 
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FineLinen

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So Jesus is lying when He said on a number of occasions that Hell is eternal torment subject to the continual wrath of God?

Jesus Christ, our High Priest of at-one-ment takes away the sin of the world!

Your term does NOT exist in Scripture. NOT

We live in a present world of great distress and agony. You evidently wish to continue agony in vast degrees of mindless torture.

The whole of created life shall be delivered!
 
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FineLinen

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Search = "eternal torment"=

Occurs 0 times in 0 verses in the KJV.

There are no concordance results for "eternal torment" in the KJV.

You can also browse through the various dictionaries.

There are no references in any translation of Scripture regarding "eternal torment".

NONE
 
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Trivalee

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The Father of all fathers punishes with a goal of change and transformation in the exercise, not unending torment! NOT!!!

The safest place in life is in the hands of God.
This view will be music to the reprobate to continue in sin, and why not, if all they get is a slap on the wrist for being naughty?
 
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Der Alte

This is me about 1 yr. old. when FDR was president
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FineLinen said:
The Father of all fathers punishes with a goal of change and transformation in the exercise, not unending torment! NOT!!!The safest place in life is in the hands of God.
Too bad you cannot provide any scripture for this and most of the other claims you make.
 
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Der Alte

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FineLinen said:
Search = "eternal torment"=
Occurs 0 times in 0 verses in the KJV.
There are no concordance results for "eternal torment" in the KJV.
You can also browse through the various dictionaries.
There are no references in any translation of Scripture regarding "eternal torment".
NONE
Meaningless nonsensical waste of band width. The only people who use the phrase "eternal torment" are UR-ites. The Biblical phrase is "eternal punishment". The rich man in "Hades" said he was "tormented in these flames" and Abraham said he could not come out of the place where he was.
The phrase "eternal punishment" occurs in Matt 25:46. Unlike you I back up everything I say with scripture.
EOB Matthew:25:46 When he will answer them, saying: ‘Amen, I tell you: as much as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to me.’ 46 These [ones on the left] will go away into eternal [αἰώνιος/aionios] punishment, [κόλασις/kolasis] but the righteous into eternal [αἰώνιος/aionios] life.”​
Greek has been the language of the Eastern Greek Orthodox church since its inception, 2000 years ago +/-. Note, the native Greek speaking Eastern Orthodox Greek scholars, translators of the EOB, translated “aionios,” in Matt 25:46, as “eternal,” NOT “age.”
Who better than the team of native Greek speaking scholars, translators of the Eastern Greek Orthodox Bible [EOB], quoted below, know the correct meaning of the Greek words in the N.T.?
Link to EOB online:
The New Testament ( The Eastern-Greek Orthodox Bible) : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive
…..The Greek word “kolasis” occurs only twice in the N.T., 1st occurrence Matt 25:46, above, and the 2nd occurrence 1 John 4:18., below.
EOB 1 John 4:18 There is no fear in love, but perfect love casts out fear, because fear is connected with punishment.[ κόλασις/kolasis] But the one who fears is not yet perfect in love.​
In the EOB the Greek word “kolasis” is translated “punishment” in both Matt 25:46 and 1 John 4:18. Some misinformed folks claim “kolasis” really means “prune” or “correction.” However, that is an etymological fallacy. According to the EOB Greek scholars it means “punishment.”
Note: in 1 John 4:18 there is no correction, the one with “kolasis” is not made perfect. Thus “kolasis” does not/cannot mean “correction.”
…..It is acknowledged that modern Greek differs from koine Greek but I am confident that the Greek speaking EOB scholars are competent enough to know the correct meanings of old words which may have changed in meaning or are no longer used and translate them correctly. Just as scholars today know the meaning of archaic words which occur in the KJV and translate them correctly.
 
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FineLinen

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This view will be music to the reprobate to continue in sin, and why not, if all they get is a slap on the wrist for being naughty?
The Lord of Glory will change every one of us in His due time, the good, bad and ugly.

“Put together all the tenderest love you know of, multiply it by infinity and you will begin to see glimpses of the love and grace of God.” ~ Hannah W. Smith
 
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FineLinen

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This view will be music to the reprobate to continue in sin, and why not, if all they get is a slap on the wrist for being naughty?

I live with the confidence that there is nothing in the universe with the power to separate us from God’s love. I’m convinced that his love will triumph over death, life’s troubles, fallen angels, or dark rulers in the heavens. There is nothing in our present or future circumstances that can weaken his love. There is no power above us or beneath us—no power that could ever be found in the universe that can distance us from God’s passionate love, which is lavished upon us through our Lord Jesus, the Anointed One! ~TPT
 
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Trivalee

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I live with the confidence that there is nothing in the universe with the power to separate us from God’s love. I’m convinced that his love will triumph over death, life’s troubles, fallen angels, or dark rulers in the heavens. There is nothing in our present or future circumstances that can weaken his love. There is no power above us or beneath us—no power that could ever be found in the universe that can distance us from God’s passionate love, which is lavished upon us through our Lord Jesus, the Anointed One! ~TPT
Those that are genuinely born again should not worry about hellfire, but those that reject Christ despite hearing the Gospel will face eternal judgment - and the lake of fire forever!
 
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Trivalee

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The Lord of Glory will change every one of us in His due time, the good, bad and ugly.

“Put together all the tenderest love you know of, multiply it by infinity and you will begin to see glimpses of the love and grace of God.” ~ Hannah W. Smith
The problem with your warped view is that you inexplicably refuse to consider the other side of God - as the righteous Judge that exacts vengeance on his intransigent enemies (Romans 12:19). If your errant view of eternal judgment makes you sleep easy, so be it. As I said in an earlier post, your false belief will have no bearing on your eternal destiny if you die as a true child of God. God never condemns anyone for getting a few scriptures wrong!

But woe betides the sinner (whether they professed Christ with the lip while their heart is far from God or the outright rebel who gave God the finger despite receiving the gospel of salvation again and again) their place is eternal burning in the lake of fire.

As I said, if you wish to turn this into an academic debate and undermine the severity of eternal punishment to feel good, so be it. But don't tell others that eternal judgment in hell is a sham, God will hold you accountable for every soul that is lost by believing you (Rev 22:18-19).
 
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FineLinen

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The problem with your warped view is that you inexplicably refuse to consider the other side of God - as the righteous Judge that exacts vengeance on his intransigent enemies (Romans 12:19). If your errant view of eternal judgment makes you sleep easy, so be it. As I said in an earlier post, your false belief will have no bearing on your eternal destiny if you die as a true child of God. God never condemns anyone for getting a few scriptures wrong!

My warped view beholds the Author being the Finisher. My warped view sees our God as victor over sin, death & the grave . My warped view, as one of His malista, beholds our God as the Saviour of all mankind.

Pas is not monos or monon: not!
 
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Saint Steven

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Those that are genuinely born again should not worry about hellfire, but those that reject Christ despite hearing the Gospel will face eternal judgment - and the lake of fire forever!
What about those that never heard the gospel?
 
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Saint Steven

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The problem with your warped view is that you inexplicably refuse to consider the other side of God
If God has two sides, he can't be trusted.

I think you borrowed the idea from Greek mythology. Janus-faced.

Janus - Wikipedia
 
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Saint Steven

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This view will be music to the reprobate to continue in sin, and why not, if all they get is a slap on the wrist for being naughty?
Will you be sinless when you enter the afterlife. Many lose their mental capacity before death. If that happens to you, you'll be toast, right?

How many dear saints have passed in that condition? How many are about to?
 
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PuerAzaelis

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This view will be music to the reprobate to continue in sin, and why not, if all they get is a slap on the wrist for being naughty?
A trillion years of punishment is finite but it is still a very very very very long time.
 
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Trivalee

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What about those that never heard the gospel?
Jesus told the disciples, by extension, you and I to preach the gospel of the kingdom to ALL the nations for a WITNESS and then the end (end of the age, return of Messiah) will come Matthew 24:14 . This has been fulfilled because even the tribes in the most remote parts of the South American Amazon have received the gospel. Even the Muslims and Hindus and Buddhists have all heard about Christ. The fact they still hold onto their religion does not negate the fact the prophecy has been fulfilled, i.e. they have heard about Christ and the finished work on the cross.

You know why Jesus said "preach the gospel for a witness", don't you? The reason is that on the day of judgment, no one will have any excuse. No mitigation whatsoever because the Holy Spirit will bear witness against that soul and remind him when he heard that Christ is the only to eternal life. As Moses enjoined ancient Israel to choose life or death Deut 30:19, the Lord also allows everyman to choose eternal life through him or eternal destruction by rejecting him BEFORE the day of judgment.

Next is about those who never heard the gospel before dying. Paul addressed this subject, vide:

Rom 2:14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:

15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another.

16 In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.


A broader understanding of Paul's argument above gives insight into how God will judge those who died since the creation of the earth until the advent of the gospel. God has given every man a conscience; it is that conscience that enables a man to discern right and wrong without the privilege of the Law.

Paul says, "when the Gentile which does not have the law, do by nature the things contained in the law". IOW, when people naturally do the right thing, e.g. not bear false witness against their neighbour, know that it is wrong to steal, commit murder, etc., Paul argues that they are following their conscience. Therefore, though they've never received the law (containing these edicts) or the gospel, it appears as if the law of God is written in their hearts - indeed in every man's heart.

Of course, every man chooses how to exercise his free will which determines the path that one thread in life. Some are inclined to do good while others tilt toward evil despite the tiny voice of their conscience reproving them of their wrongdoing.

But please understand that this criterion will only apply to those that didn't receive the gospel before they died. But those that heard the gospel and still rejected Christ will be judged on their rejection of Christ.
 
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Trivalee

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A trillion years of punishment is finite but it is still a very very very very long time.
My poor understanding of scripture is that there are two sides of eternity - one spent with God in heaven and the other, with Satan in the lake of fire. Both are eternal and infinite.
 
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Hmm

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You know why Jesus said "preach the gospel for a witness", don't you? The reason is that on the day of judgment, no one will have any excuse

So His reason for being, and dying, was to remove all excuses for people so that they can be legitimately condemned? And there was I thinking He came to save, not to condemn. Silly me.

My poor understanding of scripture

Indeed.
 
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Trivalee

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Will you be sinless when you enter the afterlife. Many lose their mental capacity before death. If that happens to you, you'll be toast, right?

How many dear saints have passed in that condition? How many are about to?
I like your questions because you always pose very pertinent situations that need diligent examination. A man's fate is sealed after death Hebrew 9:27. Eternal Judgement is the assessment of how an individual lived - in Christ or without - and that determines their eternal destiny.

Those that lose their mental faculties are far better than those whose faculties are intact. Will it surprise you to learn that many of those with learning difficulties are sinless before God? To commit sin, first, one must have the faculty to recognise that their action is a sin. You might find Paul's narrative on this very interesting. Romans 7:7-11

Apart from the original sin of Adam which we are born with, the inherent inability to recognise sin in little children makes them blameless until they are old enough to know what is right and wrong. Similarly, people who lose their mental faculties are like little children in this regard. The only difference is that children develop to understand what is right and wrong, while these mentally challenged individuals are locked in their vegetative state and never get out of it. Consequently, at death, their souls are adjudged as blameless before God.
 
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