Why Parallax doesn't work

dad

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The nitty gritty is that the Bible gives us no way to check and validate the claims it makes. Remember, the Bible is the CLAIM, not the EVIDENCE.
The nitty gritty is that SCIENCE gives us no way to check and validate the claims it makes. Remember, the nature they say existed is the CLAIM, not the EVIDENCE.
The bible gave us six ways from Sunday to validate and check it. So when we look at the things it says of the future and past we know that is also correct.

Remember, science is not evidence. Science looks at evidences through tainted colored glasses.

No, I am once again asking you to provide supporting evidence for your claims. Since you've been incapable of doing it so far.
I no longer ask you to as I know you can't. Your long fail IS evidence of that. History and the bible ARE evidence things were different, and the abject total failure of posters to support the godless same state past they use to model the past IS evidence.

How sweet it is.
 
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dad

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There being angles, defines a distance.
Only if the swath of space and time used for the base line were representative of the space and time all the way to the star. Otherwise angles have no bearing to distance. Not distance and time anyhow. So if we draw a line through time, we could not expect anything to take so much time to get from here to there! The other issue is what happens to space itself when we take away or alter time itself in that space? Would space till be the same? We don't know, really. So we can't even say that distances are known. We certainly can't know how much time anything takes to redshift, move, or do anything else out there. That not only negates distances especially in relation to time needed to move distances, but other basic things like the supposed movement of the solar system through space!

Looking for example at this link, it seems the basis for calculating any speed the solar system moves in space is redshift!!!!

"Our solar system is in motion relative to the Milky Way galaxy and our entire galaxy, along with the local cluster of galaxies is in motion relative to the Cosmic Background Radiation. This last motion is measured by observing a motional red-shift in the background radiation. (see: http://csep10.phys.utk.edu/astr162/lect/cosmology/cbr.html )"

http://www.physlink.com/education/askexperts/ae548.cfm
If the distance were infinite, there would be no angles. If the object were close, the angles would be smaller. If the object were far, they would be greater.
IF time and space were as we know it here....then....irrelevant.
If time were to stop before this light arrived, light would not move to reach us.
Stop??
How would we know, have we ever seen time stop!? No. Do we know that time is needed for all movement? No. And how about if there were simply less time? Like less gravity, for example, we would need to change calculations based on some uniform time throughout the universe. Who knows? Until you do, you may not claim so much time is needed to move in deep space.

So there is time between us and the object. If time were faster, the light would reach us sooner. If light were slower, it would reach us later.
We do not know what it is like if time itself was different and space. We are not talking about time from here to the star being slower or faster either. It might be one way in the solar syste area here, and another way out there! So we cannot say it would be faster or slower based on the perspective form earth!
If there were no time between us and the object, there would be no star to see, as its light would not move in a place without time. So there is time between us and the object.

Light does not need the time we know on earth to move. Light possibly moves accordingly in the space it is in, determined by the way time exists THERE.
 
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Job 33:6

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Only if the swath of space and time used for the base line were representative of the space and time all the way to the star. Otherwise angles have no bearing to distance. Not distance and time anyhow. So if we draw a line through time, we could not expect anything to take so much time to get from here to there! The other issue is what happens to space itself when we take away or alter time itself in that space? Would space till be the same? We don't know, really. So we can't even say that distances are known. We certainly can't know how much time anything takes to redshift, move, or do anything else out there. That not only negates distances especially in relation to time needed to move distances, but other basic things like the supposed movement of the solar system through space!

We could not expect anything to take so much time to get from here to there? What do you mean?

When you take away spacetime, you take away the medium by which light travels. For example, if a black hole is in between us and a light source, light doesn't travel where there is no spacetime to travel through. Or on the edges of black holes, light bends. But when we look into space at stars, the light is not bending. There is no evidence for the light doing anything but moving toward us.


[/QUOTE]
Stop??
How would we know, have we ever seen time stop!? No. Do we know that time is needed for all movement? No. And how about if there were simply less time? Like less gravity, for example, we would need to change calculations based on some uniform time throughout the universe. Who knows? Until you do, you may not claim so much time is needed to move in deep space.
[/QUOTE]

We have seen black holes bend spacetime. Light bends with it. Light consists of particles of energy. Physical entities that operate in time. Light from our sun takes several seconds to reach us. If time stopped between us and the sun, light also would stop. And as I said above, light may bend with greater amounts of gravity. There is no evidence of that.

[/QUOTE]
We do not know what it is like if time itself was different and space. We are not talking about time from here to the star being slower or faster either. It might be one way in the solar syste area here, and another way out there! So we cannot say it would be faster or slower based on the perspective form earth!

Light does not need the time we know on earth to move. Light possibly moves accordingly in the space it is in, determined by the way time exists THERE.[/QUOTE]

There is no evidence that indicates that light is doing anything other than simply moving toward us. Massive objects bend light and in the case of black holes, consume it. But in the case of many stars, light exists as it does here on earth.

Maybe if distant stars looked different. Or if they didn't give off light signatures for hydrogen and helium. But they do, the stars in space look like our own star. The light they emit is like the light of our own star as well. And there is no evidence indicating that distant stars or their light are changed in anyway that might throw off our ability to measure their distance.

I suppose ill add you to the block list now. It is unfortunate for me to say this, but im afraid you have lost your mind.

But good luck none the less...
 
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dad

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We could not expect anything to take so much time to get from here to there? What do you mean?
I mean if time only existed the way we know it in and near the solar system, then we could not expect anything to take the same time in deep space.
When you take away spacetime, you take away the medium by which light travels. For example, if a black hole is in between us and a light source, light doesn't travel where there is no spacetime to travel through. Or on the edges of black holes, light bends. But when we look into space at stars, the light is not bending. There is no evidence for the light doing anything but moving toward us.
I understand the theory. However that is basically speculation.

Spacetime is an artificial construct based on the time and space and physics we know. You think you know what goes on in a black hole?


We have seen black holes bend spacetime.
Oh reaaalllly? Show an example.

Light bends with it. Light consists of particles of energy.
Who knows what else bends light out where time and soace may be different? Gravity also, for all we know.
Physical entities that operate in time.
You want to declare that creation has nothing but physical entities?
Light from our sun takes several seconds to reach us. If time stopped between us and the sun, light also would stop. And as I said above, light may bend with greater amounts of gravity. There is no evidence of that.
Correct. As mentioned we know time exists here a certain way.

There is no evidence that indicates that light is doing anything other than simply moving toward us.
Or not.

How would we know HERE how long anything takes THERE? We only see it here! Always. Never anywhere else.

Basically we see it all in our time here!
Massive objects bend light and in the case of black holes, consume it. But in the case of many stars, light exists as it does here on earth.
Nope. Nothing is massive unless we know the distance. We need to know that time exists THERE for that. In your head it may be massive. In reality we do not know.
Maybe if distant stars looked different.
How does time LOOK??

Or if they didn't give off light signatures for hydrogen and helium.
So? Take helium out where no time exists or different time and what, it turns into a brick of lead?

But they do, the stars in space look like our own star.
No. They are smaller looking!

The light they emit is like the light of our own star as well.
What they emit comes HERE. We see it here only!
And there is no evidence indicating that distant stars or their light are changed in anyway that might throw off our ability to measure their distance.
None is expected, what, we would expect a star to ....what.. if time was different? We'll leave this for others to answer as it is apparent you can't deal with anything outside the belief system you cannot support.
 
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Kylie

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The nitty gritty is that SCIENCE gives us no way to check and validate the claims it makes. Remember, the nature they say existed is the CLAIM, not the EVIDENCE.

Once again, you show you haven't got the foggiest about science. Your dismissal of science is laughable.

The bible gave us six ways from Sunday to validate and check it. So when we look at the things it says of the future and past we know that is also correct.

Which is why all Christians around the world completely agree on what the Bible says.

Oh wait...

Remember, science is not evidence. Science looks at evidences through tainted colored glasses.

What are you talking about? Science is the process of gathering evidence from the real world to figure out how that real world works.

Are you just going to turn my arguments around and try to use them on me without even understanding what they mean?

I no longer ask you to as I know you can't. Your long fail IS evidence of that. History and the bible ARE evidence things were different, and the abject total failure of posters to support the godless same state past they use to model the past IS evidence.

The Chinese Neolithic Dynasty, the Fourth, Fifth and Sixth Egyptian Dynasties, the Mesopotamians, the Sumerians and the Peruvians all disagree with you. Sorry, but all those civilisations that actually existed say you are wrong..

How sweet it is.

Whatever makes you happy.
 
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dad

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Once again, you show you haven't got the foggiest about science. Your dismissal of science is laughable.
Sorry, but you don't know what you are talking about.

What are you talking about? Science is the process of gathering evidence from the real world to figure out how that real world works.
It doesn't know what the real world of the past was.

The Chinese Neolithic Dynasty, the Fourth, Fifth and Sixth Egyptian Dynasties, the Mesopotamians, the Sumerians and the Peruvians all disagree with you. Sorry, but all those civilisations that actually existed say you are wrong..
The old ones like the Sumers don't. They had long life spans.
 
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Kylie

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Sorry, but you don't know what you are talking about.

All I can do is laugh at a claim like this...

It doesn't know what the real world of the past was.

Once again, we see dad using his favorite argument, "Fraid not!"

The old ones like the Sumers don't. They had long life spans.

Then by all means, show me a record from their civilisation that supports this claim.

Of course, I suspect you won't, because you seem to have an allergy to providing supporting evidence for your claims.
 
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Job 33:6

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So? Take helium out where no time exists or different time and what, it turns into a brick of lead?

I think this sums up your position right here. Would helium turn into a brick of lead in deep space? There is no just no reason to believe that. We look at distant stars, they are made of hydrogen and helium as our own is (and other things but often predominantly hydrogen and helium). They are made of gases, as our own is. They flash and emit energy like our own. They shine the same color as our own and emit energy like our own. And there is no evidence that they are anything but stars like our own.

Its like saying, my house is made of brick, and the neighbors house is made of brick. There is no reason to take a default position that the neighbors house is actually made of helium, it just looks like brick because it exists in another location. And theres no reason to take a detault position of, "i dont know what the house is made of because i havent touched it. Yes maybe i see the house with my eyes, but for all i know, some invisible spacetime barrier exists that makes helium houses look like brick houses". And we arent asking for too much when we say, you know, the star looks like its made of gases like our own star, it moves and sparkles and reacts and explodes like a star made of gases like our own, it emits energy like our own, therefore it is a star, not a giant ball of lead.

If you wont accept what your eyes see, im surprised you are even able to get in a car and drive down the street. Who knows what invisible things might happen in space time between you and the supermarket, you may disintegrate by walking outside. If a star that looks like gas, acts like gas, explodes like gas, is actually made of lead, then under this position, who knows what foreign peoples bodies are made of. They may be cyborgs. Have I been to australia and touched a kangaroo? No? Then for all i know it could be a cyborg kangaroo.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Anyway, i think ill move on now. It is unfortunate, but dad, you appear to have lost your mind. And with that, ill be putting you on the ignore list and moving on. All the best.

If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck. Then most likely, it is a duck. It is unlikely that it is a tyrannosaurs rex in disguise. If stars in space look like stars, react like stars, move like stars etc., then they are most likely stars as we know them.
 
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dad

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All I can do is laugh at a claim like this...]
When you can do more than laugh, get back to us.

Then by all means, show me a record from their civilisation that supports this claim.
Even though they had the length wrong, they claimed extremely long life spans. If I recall they also believed in spirits.
 
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dad

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I think this sums up your position right here. Would helium turn into a brick of lead in deep space?
I doubt it. Why? The point was that whatever IS there and is seen by us here simply is seen in our time, and space. So you can't look at light speed here, for example, and think that it took THAT much time for light to get here. Nothing can take time unless there is time.
There is no just no reason to believe that. We look at distant stars, they are made of hydrogen and helium as our own is (and other things but often predominantly hydrogen and helium). They are made of gases, as our own is. They flash and emit energy like our own. They shine the same color as our own and emit energy like our own. And there is no evidence that they are anything but stars like our own.
We see it all here, remember? So looks can be deceiving. Then there si the issue of what you may not be able to see at all, that may be there also. Who knows?

.. the star looks like its made of gases like our own star, it moves and sparkles and reacts and explodes like a star made of gases like our own, it emits energy like our own, therefore it is a star, not a giant ball of lead.

Unless you knew the size of that little speck of energy, which requires knowing distance (which needs time) calling it similar to our sun is frankly ridiculous. You don't know distances.
If you wont accept what your eyes see, im surprised you are even able to get in a car and drive down the street. Who knows what invisible things might happen in space time between you and the supermarket, you may disintegrate by walking outside. If a star that looks like gas, acts like gas, explodes like gas, is actually made of lead, then under this position, who knows what foreign peoples bodies are made of. They may be cyborgs. Have I been to australians and touched a kangaroo? No? Then for all i know it could be a cyborg kangaroo.
There are stars. Relax. God created them. What I can't accept is your belief based system that is imposed on what we see.

You can't defend your religion so running along is probably the only option you had. Glad to rock your world. Cheers.
 
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Kylie

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When you can do more than laugh, get back to us.

You first.

Even though they had the length wrong, they claimed extremely long life spans. If I recall they also believed in spirits.

And funnily enough, this is not showing me a record. I need you to provide a link to something that ISN'T YOU to show that you are not the only one saying this.

Of course, you've already shot yourself in the foot by saying, "They got it wrong, what they really meant to say was <<this thing that agrees with me>>."
 
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dad

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And funnily enough, this is not showing me a record. I need you to provide a link to something that ISN'T YOU to show that you are not the only one saying this.
Ok.


"
"After the flood had swept over, and the kingship had descended from heaven, the kingship was in Kish."
Jushur 1,200 years historicity uncertain names before Etana do not appear in any other known source, and their existence is archaeologically unverified
Kullassina-bel 960 years
Nangishlishma 670 years
En-tarah-ana 420 years
Babum 300 years
Puannum 840 years
Kalibum 960 years
Kalumum 840 years
Zuqaqip 900 years
Atab (or A-ba) 600 years
Mashda "the son of Atab" 840 years
Arwium "the son of Mashda" 720 years
Etana "the shepherd, who ascended to heaven and consolidated all the foreign countries" 1,500 years
Balih "the son of Etana" 400 years
En-me-nuna 660 years
Melem-Kish "the son of En-me-nuna" 900 years
Barsal-nuna ("the son of En-me-nuna")* 1,200 years
Zamug "the son of Barsal-nuna" 140 years
Tizqar "the son of Zamug" 305 years
Ilku 900 years
Iltasadum 1,200 years
En-me-barage-si "who made the land of Elamsubmit" 900 years ca. 2600 BC the earliest ruler on the List confirmed independently from epigraphical evidence
Aga of Kish "the son of En-me-barage-si" 625 years ca. 2600 BC contemporary with Gilgamesh of Uruk, according to the Sumerian tale of Gilgamesh and Aga [20]"

Sumerian King List - Wikipedia
Of course, you've already shot yourself in the foot by saying, "They got it wrong, what they really meant to say was <<this thing that agrees with me>>."
Not really. If I want accurate life spans I look at Scripture. Sumer is of note because it had life spans recorded that were close to and in excess of 1000 years. To me, that says that people lived longer in that dawn of civilization era.
 
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Kylie

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I'm actually surprised. You're actually posting something more than claims? Keep it up!

""After the flood had swept over, and the kingship had descended from heaven, the kingship was in Kish."

Would be nice if you cited a source for this quote, but...

Jushur 1,200 years historicity uncertain names before Etana do not appear in any other known source, and their existence is archaeologically unverified
Kullassina-bel 960 years
Nangishlishma 670 years
En-tarah-ana 420 years
Babum 300 years
Puannum 840 years
Kalibum 960 years
Kalumum 840 years
Zuqaqip 900 years
Atab (or A-ba) 600 years
Mashda "the son of Atab" 840 years
Arwium "the son of Mashda" 720 years
Etana "the shepherd, who ascended to heaven and consolidated all the foreign countries" 1,500 years
Balih "the son of Etana" 400 years
En-me-nuna 660 years
Melem-Kish "the son of En-me-nuna" 900 years
Barsal-nuna ("the son of En-me-nuna")* 1,200 years
Zamug "the son of Barsal-nuna" 140 years
Tizqar "the son of Zamug" 305 years
Ilku 900 years
Iltasadum 1,200 years
En-me-barage-si "who made the land of Elamsubmit" 900 years ca. 2600 BC the earliest ruler on the List confirmed independently from epigraphical evidence
Aga of Kish "the son of En-me-barage-si" 625 years ca. 2600 BC contemporary with Gilgamesh of Uruk, according to the Sumerian tale of Gilgamesh and Aga [20]"

Sumerian King List - Wikipedia

Wow, I really am amazed. Thank you for actually providing a source for your claims. Please do it more often.

In any case, if all of those people were kings of Kish after the flood, we have a problem. The total length of their reign is 23,980 years. You've previously posted this image:

Creation.jpg


According to this, the present state laws didn't come into effect until 2000 something years ago. According to your link, there has been almost 24,000 years of Kish in that time. Something's odd there. Now, you do say that you doubt the accuracy of the claims the King List makes about the length of their reigns, but if that's the case, why should we recognise ANY of the King list as accurate unless it can be verified by some other source? Preferably from some sort of archaeology?

Not really. If I want accurate life spans I look at Scripture. Sumer is of note because it had life spans recorded that were close to and in excess of 1000 years. To me, that says that people lived longer in that dawn of civilization era.

I can give lots of sources that say animals can talk. Does that mean they are correct?

In any case, I think it's not very reasonable to accept the fact that it gives claims of long lives as evidence when you yourself have claimed that you think the claims are flawed.
 
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dad

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In any case, if all of those people were kings of Kish after the flood, we have a problem. The total length of their reign is 23,980 years. You've previously posted this image:

Creation.jpg


According to this, the present state laws didn't come into effect until 2000 something years ago.
No more like 4500. Remember the BC thingie.
According to your link, there has been almost 24,000 years of Kish in that time. Something's odd there. Now, you do say that you doubt the accuracy of the claims the King List makes about the length of their reigns, but if that's the case, why should we recognise ANY of the King list as accurate unless it can be verified by some other source? Preferably from some sort of archaeology?
As I say, pagan records should not be taken as gospel, I use the bible for actual years. I have heard some suggest that some of the kings may have been simultaneous on the list, and that the numbers were exaggerated etc. The point of it is that life spans were much longer in their record.
Notice also, that they believed in actual spirits with men. Egypt did also, the first kings were thought to be gods apparently there.


I can give lots of sources that say animals can talk. Does that mean they are correct?
Not all sources are equal. The bible is proven over great time in a thousand ways times a thousand. One can't compare that to some dredged up isolated legend or story.
In any case, I think it's not very reasonable to accept the fact that it gives claims of long lives as evidence when you yourself have claimed that you think the claims are flawed.
If they actually lived centuries, it would fit the bible. If they get some wrong, well, maybe egos were involved or whatever. The general gist of the list is that people lived a loong time.
 
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Kylie

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No more like 4500. Remember the BC thingie.

Yeah, I forgot the BC thing, my bad.

Still, you're trying to fit 24,000 years into about 4,500 years.

As I say, pagan records should not be taken as gospel, I use the bible for actual years. I have heard some suggest that some of the kings may have been simultaneous on the list, and that the numbers were exaggerated etc. The point of it is that life spans were much longer in their record.

I find it very telling that you acknowledge that the claims made by this source are flawed, but you still decide that they support your position. Some of the worst cherry picking I've ever seen.

Notice also, that they believed in actual spirits with men. Egypt did also, the first kings were thought to be gods apparently there.

So?

Not all sources are equal. The bible is proven over great time in a thousand ways times a thousand. One can't compare that to some dredged up isolated legend or story.

There are thousands of myths about talking animals, from a period of thousands of years, over most of the world.

Surely that can't be coincidence, right?

If they actually lived centuries, it would fit the bible. If they get some wrong, well, maybe egos were involved or whatever. The general gist of the list is that people lived a loong time.

Once again, cherry picking.
 
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dad

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Yeah, I forgot the BC thing, my bad.

Still, you're trying to fit 24,000 years into about 4,500 years.
The records are not reliable for actual time.
I find it very telling that you acknowledge that the claims made by this source are flawed, but you still decide that they support your position. Some of the worst cherry picking I've ever seen.
They obviously do support the idea life spans were very long. How long exactly is not the issue we need to focus on here.

So spirits living in the world of men was a keynote feature of the DSP. Angels married women.

There are thousands of myths about talking animals, from a period of thousands of years, over most of the world.
Hey, might be something to it then I guess. Maybe some handed down tales of the time we did talk to animals in Eden or something.
 
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Kylie

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The records are not reliable for actual time.

Doesn't seem to stop you from using them to claim the people lived for a long time.

They obviously do support the idea life spans were very long. How long exactly is not the issue we need to focus on here.

No they do not.

So spirits living in the world of men was a keynote feature of the DSP. Angels married women.

The only evidence you have of this is the Bible, and the Bible is the claim, not the evidence.

Hey, might be something to it then I guess. Maybe some handed down tales of the time we did talk to animals in Eden or something.

Ya huh.
 
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dad

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The only evidence you have of this is the Bible, and the Bible is the claim, not the evidence.



Ya huh.
No the bible is the true record and the Egypt and Sumer people that also recorded spirits among men are evidence, and science has nothing at all.
 
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