This will be my absolute last post here!
Your post, your opinion proves nothing.
But it does go right along with Rev. 7:14.
"And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb."
In the Greek:
"καὶ εἴρηκα αὐτῷ, Κύριέ μου, σὺ οἶδας. καὶ εἶπέν μοι, Οὗτοί εἰσιν οἱ ἐρχόμενοι ἐκ τῆς θλίψεως τῆς μεγάλης, καὶ ἔπλυναν τὰς στολὰς αὐτῶν καὶ ἐλεύκαναν αὐτὰς ἐν τῷ αἵματι τοῦ ἀρνίου." -Rev. 7:14 (GNT)
Sir
Sir is
κύριε [kyrie] which is frequently translated
Lord. Elsewhere, the word is translated
master (Mtt.
Mat. 6:24);
Sir (Mtt.
Mat. 13:27; John
John 5:7), and
lord (Mtt.
Mat. 10:24; Luke
Luke 12:36;
Luke 14:21;
Luke 16:3; John
John 15:15). It is the respectful address of an inferior to his superior in age or station.
1
you know
σὺ οἶδας [sy oidas] , emphatic:
you, you know.
the ones who come out
ἐρχόμενοι [erchomenoi] , present participle. They are
continually coming out— probably the result of ongoing persecution resulting in martyrdom, although the text does not explicitly indicate martyrdom. “Present middle participle with the idea of continued repetition.
‘The martyrs are still arriving from the scene of the great tribulation.’ ”
2 1Cor. 15:51-52).”
3
the great tribulation
Literally,
the tribulation, the great. “ ‘
The tribulation,’ points to a definite prophetic period, and
not simply to tribulation in general in which all saints shared. ‘
The great tribulation’ cannot be the general troubles that affect God’s people in all ages.
The insertion of the definite article marks its speciality.”4 This is the unique time of intense tribulation which Jesus predicted (Mtt. Mat. 24:21). During this time, multitudes will die; both unbelievers in judgment and believers through martyrdom and harsh conditions (as these, Rev. Rev. 14:13+). “And unless those days were shorted, no flesh would be saved; but for the elect’s sake those days will be shortened” (Mtt. Mat. 24:22). This is the “hour of trial which shall come upon the whole world, to test those who dwell on the earth” (Rev. Rev. 3:10+). This time of trouble will be especially difficult for the Jewish nation (Jer.
Jer. 30:7; Dan.
Dan. 12:1,
Dan. 12:7; Mtt.
Mat. 24:16-20). Yet even this Great Tribulation cannot separate the faithful from the love of Christ, for they are
overcomers (Rom.
Rom. 8:35-39). See
Who is the Overcomer? As we have discussed elsewhere, the Church is not appointed to God’s wrath and is exempted from this “hour or trial which God brings upon the whole world to test those who dwell on the earth” (Rev. Rev. 3:10+). These believers are those who come to faith after the rapture of the Church. It is interesting to note the accuracy which attends predictions made by those who take Scripture at face value. Walter Scott (1796-1861), writing well in advance of the establishment of Israel in 1948, says of this verse: “ ‘The great tribulation’ is yet future.
It pre-supposes the Jewish nation restored to Palestine in unbelief , to serve Gentile political ends, and brought there by the active intervention of a great maritime power (Isa.
Isa. 18:1).” [emphasis added]
5 Since 1948, Scott’s words, which reflect God’s Word, have come to pass. See
Trouble Ahead.
washed their robes
See commentary on
Revelation 1:5.
made them white
ἐλεύκαναν [eleukanan] , used to describe making blood-red stains due to sin become white (Isa.
Isa. 1:18).
6 It may picture not only their salvation (washing away their sins), but also the exchange of garments bloodied by their persecution on earth for clean garments from God.
in the blood of the Lamb
The garments of many were no doubt stained with their own blood. Still, it is the blood of the Lamb which is required for salvation. Their blood, while precious to God (Ps.
Ps. 116:15) and spilled as a testimony to God, lacks any redemptive power. See commentary on
Revelation 1:5 and
Revelation 5:9.
Notes
1 James Moffatt,
“Revelation of St. John the Divine,” in W. Robertson Nicoll, ed.,
The Expositor’s Greek Testament, vol. 5 (New York, NY: George H. Doran Company, n.d.), 399.
2 A. T. Robertson,
Robertson’s Word Pictures in Six Volumes (Escondido, CA: Ephesians Four Group, 2003), Rev. 7:14.
3 John MacArthur,
Revelation 1-11 : The MacArthur New Testament Commentary (Chicago, IL: Moody Press, 1999), Rev. 7:14.
4 Walter Scott,
Exposition of The Revelation (London, England: Pickering & Inglis, n.d.), 163.
5 Ibid.
6 Frederick William Danker and Walter Bauer,
A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament and Other Early Christian Literature (Chicago, IL: University of Chicago Press, 2000), 472.
Source
Also:
"
keep you from the hour of trial
A large body of discussion attends this phrase. The debate centers on whether
from (
εκ [ek] ) here denotes
out of or
through. Is the promise to keep the church
out of the trial or to preserve it
through the trial? Proponents of the
kept through view observe other passages where
εκ [ek] can have this meaning.
2 They also observe examples in Scripture where God’s people are protected in the midst of God’s judgment:
On the very same day Noah and Noah’s sons, Shem, Ham, and Japheth, and Noah’s wife and the three wives of his sons with them, entered the ark. (Gen.
Gen. 7:13)
Now the blood shall be a sign for you on the houses where you
are. And when I see the blood, I will pass over you; and the plague shall not be on you to destroy
you when I strike the land of Egypt. (Ex.
Ex. 12:13)
Come, my people, enter your chambers, and shut your doors behind you; hide yourself, as it were, for a little moment, until the indignation is past. For behold, the LORD comes out of His place to punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity; the earth will also disclose her blood, and will no more cover her slain. (Isa.
Isa. 26:20-21)
“Do not harm the earth, the sea, or the trees till we have sealed the servants of our God on their foreheads.” . . . They were commanded not to harm the grass of the earth, or any green thing, or any tree, but only those men who do not have the seal of God on their foreheads. (Rev.
Rev. 7:3+;
Rev. 9:4+)
Proponents of the
kept from view point to the fact that the most natural use of
εκ [ek] indicates
out of and that if the alternate meaning were in view, another more suitable preposition would have been used.
3 They too can point to passages which support their view—where the faithful are
removed prior to God’s judgment:
And Enoch walked with God; and he
was not, for God took him. (Gen.
Gen. 5:24)
And Abraham came near and said, “Would You also destroy the righteous with the wicked? Suppose there were fifty righteous within the city; would You also destroy the place and not spare
it for the fifty righteous that were in it?” . . . Then he said, “Let not the Lord be angry, and I will speak but once more: suppose ten should be found there?” And He said, “I will not destroy
it for the sake of ten.” (Gen.
Gen. 18:23-32)
And he said to him, “See, I have favored you concerning this thing also, in that I will not overthrow this city for which you have spoken. Hurry, escape there. For I cannot do anything until you arrive there.” Therefore the name of the city was called Zoar. (Gen.
Gen. 19:21-22)
The problem cannot be solved simply by appeal to similar passages since
both models of protection are found in Scripture. This is because saints occupying different roles in history find themselves in different situations with regard to what God is doing in their midst. There is not a “one size fits all” approach to how God chooses to protect the faithful: at the time of Noah’s flood, Enoch “walked with God and he
was not, for God took him” (Gen.
Gen. 5:24), yet Noah and his family were preserved
through the flood within the Ark (Gen.
Gen. 7:13). We believe that by these typological examples, God is teaching us that some saints will be raptured whereas others—who come to faith later—will be protected in the midst of His wrath. But, the simple answer to the question at hand is found by reading the promise more carefully, for the promise is not to be kept from
the trial, but from
the hour of trial. The church will not even experience the trial for it will be
kept from the hour when the trial is visited upon the earth.
Christ promised to keep these church saints form the
time period characterized by the testing Christ had in mind. If the Lord had meant that He would keep them from just the testing itself, He could have made that very clear by omitting the words ‘the hour’ and simply saying, ‘I will keep you from the testing.’
4
When the all-important word
hour is factored into the discussion, it becomes clear that the promise relates to the
time of trial and not its effects.
Mark 14:36; Luke
Luke 22:42],’ and the parallel or equivalent request, ‘save me from this hour [John
John 12:27],’ he was not praying to be spared during the hour, but to be kept from it, which settles the meaning of the expression here.”
5 Too often, commentators fail to grasp this important distinction. For example:
It is far from clear that the removal of Christians from the earth would be the only possible way in which Jesus could
keep His people
from the wars and plagues anticipated to occur at that time. [emphasis added]
6
But this line of reasoning is flawed because the verse says nothing about being kept from
wars and plagues—the promise is to be kept from the
hour or
time. A serious problem with the
kept through view is that God’s promise is of little merit in view of the fact that Scripture records multitudes of the faithful will suffer violent death during this period (Dan.
Dan. 7:21,
Dan. 7:25;
Dan. 8:24; Rev.
Rev. 7:9-16+;
Rev. 12:11+;
Rev. 13:7+;
Rev. 20:4+):
7
Even if the church saints were to be shielded from the testing of God’s wrath will bring on the earth in the period of testing Christ had in mind, the Scriptures (Rev.
Rev. 6:9-11+;
Rev. 13:7+,
Rev. 13:15+;
Rev. 20:4+) make it clear that many of the saints alive on the earth during that period will be martyred by unbelievers. Thus, even though they will not be put to death by God’s wrath, they will still experience violent death as if they had not been shielded from God’s wrath. This militates against the answer that Christ will shield or protect the saints in or through that period of testing.
8
This verse does not say that the Church will be merely kept safe during the trial, but it will be kept from the very hour of trial, that is, from the very time of it. This requires a removal before the Tribulation ever occurs. If Revelation Rev. 3:10+ means that the Church will be kept safe during the Tribulation, then something goes terribly wrong. Throughout the Tribulation, saints are being killed on a massive scale (Rev. Rev. 6:9-11+; Rev. 11:7+; Rev. 12:11+; Rev. 13:7+, Rev. 13:15+; Rev. 14:13+; Rev. 17:6+; Rev. 18:24+). If these saints are Church saints, they are not being kept safe and Revelation Rev. 3:10+ is meaningless. Only if Church saints and Tribulation saints are kept distinct does the promise of Revelation Rev. 3:10+ make any sense.9
This
hour of trial is said to
come upon the whole world (see below) and cannot relate to the destruction of Jerusalem in A.D. 70 as some hold for there was no need to protect the Philadelphian church from events hundreds of miles distant which had offered no direct physical threat to Asia Minor. This promise relates to a unique time of trial yet future that all believers shall escape due to their participation in the
Rapture. In this, the passage has in common a typological and future application like that of Revelation
Rev. 2:20-22+ where
Jezebel is cast into
great tribulation. See commentary on
Revelation 2:22. See
Rapture."
Source
Just like Rev. 7:14, Rev12:11 shows that there are "Christians" that will come out of the great tribulation period, and that they will in most likelihood, be from martyrdom.
Rev. 12:11 does not disprove a "rapture"!
Like I said, I show:
- Today
- BABerean2 quoted your post in the thread Why no Job in Darbys rapture?.
2:20 AM
jgr quoted your post in the thread Why no Job in Darbys rapture?.
2:04 AM
jgr quoted your post in the thread Why no Job in Darbys rapture?.
1:19 AM
jgr replied to the thread Why no Job in Darbys rapture?. There may be more posts after this.
12:46 AM
jgr replied to the thread Why no Job in Darbys rapture?. There may be more posts after this.
12:42 AM
- Yesterday
- BABerean2 quoted your post in the thread Why no Job in Darbys rapture?.
7:25 PM
WailingWall quoted your post in the thread Why no Job in Darbys rapture?.
5:15 PM
- keras quoted your post in the thread Why no Job in Darbys rapture?.
3:54 PM
- jgr quoted your post in the thread Why no Job in Darbys rapture?.12:06 PM
jgr quoted your post in the thread Why no Job in Darbys rapture?.
11:29 AM
- BABerean2 quoted your post in the thread Why no Job in Darbys rapture?.
6:17 AM
BABerean2 quoted your post in the thread Why no Job in Darbys rapture?.
5:49 AM
- jgr quoted your post in the thread Why no Job in Darbys rapture?.
4:37 AM
jgr quoted your post in the thread Why no Job in Darbys rapture?.
3:49 AM
keras quoted your post in the thread Why no Job in Darbys rapture?.
3:16 AM
jgr quoted your post in the thread Why no Job in Darbys rapture?.
2:24 AM
jgr quoted your post in the thread Why no Job in Darbys rapture?.
1:39 AM
- Wednesday
BABerean2 quoted your post in the thread Why no Job in Darbys rapture?.
11:01 PM
4 people, for a total 18 posts, over 3 days. Ganging up on me.
Now, having said that...
I bid you adieu.
God Bless
Till all are one.