Why no Job in Darbys rapture?

[Biblewriter]

Get a copy of the book "Things to Come" by Dr. Dwight Pentecost, who was a professor at Dallas Theological Seminary, and read what he says about a future time when modern Jews will come to salvation outside of the Church.

Listen to Pastor Steve Gregg on YouTube, who was once a member of Calvary Chapel and taught the doctrine for several years, before coming to the conclusion that it was not scriptural.

Do some research on what Pastor John Hagee wrote in the Houston Chronicle about modern Jews not needing Christ, because he says they are still under the Old Covenant.

Discuss the New Covenant promised to Israel and Judah in Jeremiah 31:31-34, which is found fulfilled by Christ in Hebrews 8:6-13, and is specifically applied to the Church in Hebrews 12:22-24, and 2 Corinthians 3:6-8, with Dispensationalists and look at what they have written in their books about the New Covenant...

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John Hagee calls himself a Dispensationalist, but his doctrine is rejected by every other well known or well informed Dispensational teacher. As for the other respected Dispensational teachers, what this poster is saying is a willful misrepresentation of what we teach.

 

[Quasar92]

1 THES. 4 [16] For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and THE DEAD IN CHRIST SHALL RISE FIRST: [17] Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. [18] Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

1COR.15 [51] Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but WE SHALL ALL BE CHANGED,[52] In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.[53] for this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

Will Job be amoung the dead in Christ who will be “changed” at the 1Cor.15 event?

1 CORINTHIANS 10[1] Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all OUR FATHERS were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea; [2] And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea; [3] And did all eat the same spiritual meat; [4] And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they DRANK OF THAT SPIRITUAL ROCK that followed them: and THAT ROCK WAS CHRIST.

Yes, according to scripture

JOB 14 [10] But man dieth, and wasteth away: yea, man giveth up the ghost, and where is he?[11] As the waters fail from the sea, and the flood decayeth and drieth up:[12] So MAN LIETH DOWN, AND RISETH NOT: TILL THE HEAVENS BE NO MORE, they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep.[13] O that thou wouldest hide me in the grave, that thou wouldest keep me secret, until thy wrath be past, that thou wouldest appoint me a set time, and remember me! [14] IF A MAN DIE, SHALL HE LIVE AGAIN? all the days of my appointed time will I WAIT, TILL MY CHANGE COME.

Job says after the heavens be no more, then shall his "change" come

2PET.3 [10] But THE DAY OF THE LORD WILL COME as a thief in the night; in the which THE HEAVENS SHALL PASS AWAY with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up

Job says his "change" will come when the heavens be no more. Above scripture tells us the heavens be no more at the coming of the Day of the Lord. Which occurs {according to scripture} after the great tribulation

ISAIAH 34 [2] For the indignation of the LORD is upon all nations, and his fury upon all their armies: he hath utterly destroyed them, he hath delivered them to the slaughter.[3] Their slain also shall be cast out, and their stink shall come up out of their carcases, and the mountains shall be melted with their blood.[4] And all the host of HEAVEN SHALL BE DISSOLVED, and the heavens shall be rolled together AS A SCROLL: and all their host shall fall down, as the leaf falleth off from the vine, and as a falling fig from the fig tree. [8] For it is THE DAY OF THE LORD'S VENGEANCE, and the year of recompences for the controversy of Zion.

REVELATION 6 [12] And I beheld when he had opened THE SIXTH SEAL, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood; ......[14] And the heaven departed AS A SCROLL when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places...... [16] And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb: [17] For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

So scripture proves Job will be changed {in the twinkling of an eye} after the tribulation period on the Day of the Lord. So why wasnt he invited to the rapture Darby invented?

Yes, well said. However, just in a passing coment about your title: Darby did not invent the rapture theory. But rather, it was taught in the Scriptures by Jesus , Matthew, Luke, John and Paul, as recorded in the following ink:

The Biblical teaching of the pre-trib rapture of the Church - a deeper walk...


Quasar92

 

[jgr]

John Hagee calls himself a Dispensationalist, but his doctrine is rejected by every other well known or well informed Dispensational teacher. As for the other respected Dispensational teachers, what this poster is saying is a willful misrepresentation of what we teach.

Is his rapture doctrine rejected by every other dispensationalist? Not that I've ever heard.
Is his regathered Israel doctrine rejected by every other dispensationalist? Not that I've ever heard.
Is his decapitated 70th week doctrine rejected by every other dispensationalist? Not that I've ever heard.
Is his parenthetical church doctrine rejected by every other dispensationalist? Not that I've ever heard.
Is his postponed kingdom doctrine rejected by every other dispensationalist? Not that I've ever heard.

So who rejects what?

 

[Biblewriter]

Is his rapture doctrine rejected by every other dispensationalist? Not that I've ever heard.
Is his regathered Israel doctrine rejected by every other dispensationalist? Not that I've ever heard.
Is his decapitated 70th week doctrine rejected by every other dispensationalist? Not that I've ever heard.
Is his parenthetical church doctrine rejected by every other dispensationalist? Not that I've ever heard.
Is his postponed kingdom doctrine rejected by every other dispensationalist? Not that I've ever heard.

So who rejects what?

What we all reject is his heretical doctrine that Jews can be saved without faith in Christ.

 

[jgr]

What we all reject is his heretical doctrine that Jews can be saved without faith in Christ.

If you're referring to his dual covenant heresy, my understanding is that he ceased advocating it after the "holy hell" that descended upon him from the rest of the Christian community.

Regardless, he is in virtually all other aspects one of dispensationalism's most acclaimed voices.

 

[Biblewriter]

If you're referring to his dual covenant heresy, my understanding is that he ceased advocating it after the "holy hell" that descended upon him from the rest of the Christian community.

Regardless, he is in virtually all other aspects one of dispensationalism's most acclaimed voices.

Acclaimed where? He is widely known because of his television show. But, after well over fifty years of moving in Disoensational circles, I cannot remember even one other Dispensationalist who praised him, or who advised people to listen to him.

 

[jgr]

Acclaimed where? He is widely known because of his television show. But, after well over fifty years of moving in Disoensational circles, I cannot remember even one other Dispensationalist who praised him, or who advised people to listen to him.

Other than dual covenant, how does his dispensationalism differ from yours?

 

[Biblewriter]

Other than dual covenant, how does his dispensationalism differ from yours?

Knowing his extreme heresy on one point, I have not studied the rest of what he teaches.

 

[jgr]

Knowing his extreme heresy on one point, I have not studied the rest of what he teaches.

I'd be very surprised if there were any other differences. But I'm not about to waste good dollars on his prophecy bible to confirm that.

 

[Biblewriter]

I'd be very surprised if there were any other differences. But I'm not about to waste good dollars on his prophecy bible to confirm that.

Nor am I.

 

[BABerean2]

Nor am I.

 

[my_name_is_sarah]

Absolutely not.

Neither are we promoters of the Two Peoples of God doctrine that John Nelson Darby brought to America about the time of the Civil War, which was later incorporated into the notes of the Scofield Reference Bible.

The New Covenant promised to Israel and Judah in Jeremiah 31:31-34, which is found fulfilled by Christ during the first century in Hebrews 8:6-13, and specifically applied to the Church in Hebrews 12:22-24 and 2 Corinthians 3:6-8 completely destroys the doctrine you are promoting.

Your "rightly dividing" doctrine is less than 200 years old.

The New Covenant: Bob George

The Greek words for "wrath" and "tribulation" are not the same word.

You are repeating what you have heard others say.
Get out your Bible to study and find the truth.

I was once a deacon in a conservation Bible church where I was told the same things you are now saying. The problem it that I could not get the doctrine to agree with my Bible.

I was told that the Book of Matthew was not written for the Church, but then I found Christ revealing His Church in Matthew chapter 16 and then I found the Great Commission to the Church at the end of Matthew's Gospel.

Why would I believe a doctrine that does not agree with scripture?

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[my_name_is_sarah]

If you ''rightly divide'' the Word you will see that the Lord Jesus ''came unto His own" the Jews. He knew He would be crucified but HE came unto HIS own the Jews and HE said to them "GO NOT into the way of the Gentiles" He did not come for the Gentiles.
In the dispensation of Grace Paul was given the ''mystery'' of the Church. He was the apostle to the Gentiles. God in mercy and grace sent His Son to pay our complete sin debt. Jews and Gentiles can be saved in this dispensation but Thank God HE will keep HIS everlasting covenant with the remnant of Israel !!!

 

[my_name_is_sarah]

Absolutely not.

Neither are we promoters of the Two Peoples of God doctrine that John Nelson Darby brought to America about the time of the Civil War, which was later incorporated into the notes of the Scofield Reference Bible.

The New Covenant promised to Israel and Judah in Jeremiah 31:31-34, which is found fulfilled by Christ during the first century in Hebrews 8:6-13, and specifically applied to the Church in Hebrews 12:22-24 and 2 Corinthians 3:6-8 completely destroys the doctrine you are promoting.

Your "rightly dividing" doctrine is less than 200 years old.

The New Covenant: Bob George

The Greek words for "wrath" and "tribulation" are not the same word.

You are repeating what you have heard others say.
Get out your Bible to study and find the truth.

I was once a deacon in a conservation Bible church where I was told the same things you are now saying. The problem it that I could not get the doctrine to agree with my Bible.

I was told that the Book of Matthew was not written for the Church, but then I found Christ revealing His Church in Matthew chapter 16 and then I found the Great Commission to the Church at the end of Matthew's Gospel.

Why would I believe a doctrine that does not agree with scripture?

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[my_name_is_sarah]

it's interesting when someone disagrees with you about doctrine they say to you
"you are listening to someone who is not teaching correctly"

NO Iam 72 years old, I KNOW WHOM I have believed on and I don't need someone else to make me believe something that is not in the Word of God !!!!

 

[BABerean2]

Thank God HE will keep HIS everlasting covenant with the remnant of Israel !!!

The New Covenant promised to Israel and Judah in Jeremiah 31:31-34, is found fulfilled by Christ during the first century in Hebrews 8:6-13, and is specifically applied to the Church in Hebrews 12:22-24, and 2 Corinthians 3:6-8, and is the "everlasting covenant" found in Hebrews 13:20.

You are attempting to ignore the fact that Peter addressed the crowd as "all the house of Israel" in Acts 2:36. On that day about 3,000 Israelites accepted the New Covenant promised in Jeremiah 31. When the Church began almost all of its members were Israelites. The Church as a whole has never been a "Gentile Church".

In Romans 11:1 Paul identifies himself as an Israelite, even after his conversion.

Gal 6:15 Certainly, it doesn't matter whether a person is circumcised or not. Rather, what matters is being a new creation.
Gal 6:16 Peace and mercy will come to rest on all those who conform to this principle. They are the Israel of God. (GW)

The Israel of God is identified in the passage above.

We find those under the blood of the Lamb in Revelation 12:11.
A person cannot be under the blood of the Lamb and not be a part of the New Covenant Church.

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[Biblewriter]

The New Covenant promised to Israel and Judah in Jeremiah 31:31-34, is found fulfilled by Christ during the first century in Hebrews 8:6-13, and is specifically applied to the Church in Hebrews 12:22-24, and 2 Corinthians 3:6-8, and is the "everlasting covenant" found in Hebrews 13:20.

You are attempting to ignore the fact that Peter addressed the crowd as "all the house of Israel" in Acts 2:36. On that day about 3,000 Israelites accepted the New Covenant promised in Jeremiah 31. When the Church began almost all of its members were Israelites. The Church as a whole has never been a "Gentile Church".

In Romans 11:1 Paul identifies himself as an Israelite, even after his conversion.

Gal 6:15 Certainly, it doesn't matter whether a person is circumcised or not. Rather, what matters is being a new creation.
Gal 6:16 Peace and mercy will come to rest on all those who conform to this principle. They are the Israel of God. (GW)

The Israel of God is identified in the passage above.

We find those under the blood of the Lamb in Revelation 12:11.
A person cannot be under the blood of the Lamb and not be a part of the New Covenant Church.

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You have said that in the past, you blindly followed dispensational teachers, without even considering whether or not what they said agreed with scripture. But that is exactly what you are now doing with the people who deny this doctrine.

You need to study the scriptures for yourself, and realize that you are are giving more credit to your interpretation of the meanings of a relatively small number of scriptures, that never actually say what you imagine them to mean, than to a very much larger number of scriptures that explicitly state the doctrines you deny.

 

[BABerean2]

You have said that in the past, you blindly followed dispensational teachers, without even considering whether or not what they said agreed with scripture.

I have never said any such thing.
I said at one time I was a deacon in a conservative Bible Church which taught Dispensational Theology.
I gave up my position as deacon after presenting the history of modern Dispensational Theology to my fellow deacons, after finding that I could not get the doctrine to match up with what was written in my Bible.
Arrows started coming in my direction after that day.
The same often occurs on this forum when a person dares to doubt your doctrine.
The word "liar" has been thrown in my direction on many occasions.

You claimed the importance of the New Covenant in your doctrine, but to this date have failed to produce anything you have written about the New Covenant.


The New Covenant: Bob George

Jer_31:31　 "Behold, the days are coming, says the LORD, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah—

Mat_26:28　 For this is My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

Mar_14:24　 And He said to them, "This is My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many.

Luk_22:20　 Likewise He also took the cup after supper, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in My blood, which is shed for you.

1Co_11:25　 In the same manner He also took the cup after supper, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in My blood. This do, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of Me."

2Co_3:6　 who also made us sufficient as ministers of the new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.

Heb_8:8　 Because finding fault with them, He says: "BEHOLD, THE DAYS ARE COMING, SAYS THE LORD, WHEN I WILL MAKE A NEW COVENANT WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL AND WITH THE HOUSE OF JUDAH—

Heb_8:13　 In that He says, "A NEW COVENANT," He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.

Heb_9:15　 And for this reason He is the Mediator of the new covenant, by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions under the first covenant, that those who are called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance.

Heb_12:24　 to Jesus the Mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling that speaks better things than that of Abel.

(NKJV)

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