why must I post here when I am a believer?

[JW youth]

I feel shut out, I am not a non believer but one who LOVES Jehovah, and yet I am judged and relegated to a non christian area. It adds to the mixed feelings and it is a struggle in itself. I can't help that.

James

 

[Athanasian Creed]

I feel shut out, I am not a non believer but one who LOVES Jehovah, and yet I am judged and relegated to a non christian area. It adds to the mixed feelings and it is a struggle in itself. I can't help that.

James

The answer is simple - according to the core tenets of Biblical Christian faith you ARE a non-Christian. Sorry to put it so bluntly but that is fact. If you do not believe the Nicene Creed which states, contrary to JW doctrine, that God is Triune in nature (One God=3 distinct Divine Persons) AND that Jesus of Nazareth, the Christ, is the Almighty God as stated in John 1:1, not A god as in the New World Translation of JW's. In truth, JW's are henotheists, not monotheists as Christians are, meaning they believe in a Supreme God (Jehovah) and a subordinate or lesser deity (god) Jesus.

For help in distinguishing TRUE Biblical Christianity, a good place to start would be:
http://www.bible.ca/jw.htm

Also, an excellent ex-JW's site is:
http://www.watchman.org/jwtools.htm

May God help you James to distinguish Truth from the multitude of falsehood which masquerades as "Christianity" Remember, Jesus said He was the Truth and that Truth was also found only in His Word.


Ray

 

[Risen Tree]

Hey chief, you might get some good responses to your questions if you post them here:

http://www.christianforums.com/f130

 

[Annabel Lee]

Hi James,
My post on this thread was deleted, I'll try to change it so as not to offend or insult the website.

In real life you are a Christian. The internet is not real life..always remember that.
The rules for being considered a Real Christian only apply to THIS website not the outside world.
There are many good areas in the Open Discussion area to post in...however there is one section I suggest you stay away from..I'll send you my original deleted post by pm, if that is okay with you.

Being told you aren't a Christian is cruel and unfair and I'm sorry you are being treated badly.
Goodluck.

 

[SpiritPsalmist]

I feel shut out, I am not a non believer but one who LOVES Jehovah, and yet I am judged and relegated to a non christian area. It adds to the mixed feelings and it is a struggle in itself. I can't help that.

James

I'm not sure how to answer your question JW.

I don't believe that anyone here is questioning where your heart is. Or whether you personally are a Christian or not. Anyone who trusts in Jesus Christ for their salvation is saved, however, the doctrines of the church you attend and the version of the Holy Bible, and it's accompaning booklets that you read are an issue.

The point of this site is to allow all to fellowship no matter what church they may attend, but does not allow free movement of every church's doctrine to permeate and confuse what is scripture and what is not.

I believe Athanasian Creed gave you some good sites to check out and consider.

 

[oldrooster]

Technically you are not a christian, LDS & SDA fall into the same catagory. I welcome you, peace in your walk through life.

 

[JW youth]

Technically you are not a christian, LDS & SDA fall into the same catagory. I welcome you, peace in your walk through life.

I don't mean to be disrespectful but I want to show you why I am Christian according to the Bible.

I think we would agree it has the last say in this. (Jehovah speaks only truth)

JOHN 1:9 That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.
JOHN 1:10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.
JOHN 1:11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.
JOHN 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
JOHN 1:13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

Here we see that Jesus came to his own, preceding this it spoke in

JOHN 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
That Jesus made every thing including us I asume. So He came to his own (created) and his own knew him not. We then see that [as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:]

I believe without a doubt that Jesus is The Son of God, and that his sacrificial purpose was fulfilled for the remission of MY sin, and I believe on HIS name. So therefore the Word of GOD states that following this I have the assurance that.....
JOHN 1:13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

I [James] has been given power to become a Son of GOD.

Man says I have to believe this and that, The Bible is much more precise and accurate. I am a Christian and no man can take that from me, because I have the assurance of one much mightier than man.

ROM 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
ROM 10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
ROM 10:11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
ROM 10:12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
ROM 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

Confession is made that The Lord Jesus has been risen from the dead.... and in verse 11, it states that I SHALL NOT BE ASHAMED....

Man may have judged me because of my upbringing, but Jehovah God knows me inside out and I can't fool him. He gives me assurance.

With respect this is my stand

James

 

[oldrooster]

Christians are called that because we follow Christ, we also consider him to be in the holy trinity. If you fall outside of that, you probably wont get the Christian label. I was LDS for may years so I understand where you are coming from.

 

[JW youth]

Christians are called that because we follow Christ, we also consider him to be in the holy trinity. If you fall outside of that, you probably wont get the Christian label. I was LDS for may years so I understand where you are coming from.

Again, with all the respect I can muster, man has decided to take it upon itself to label other men, i.e. The Nicene Creed was a collection of such men. Of course Jesus is to be followed and His example to us be also followed by our example. My authority is far higher as I quote again to you.

JOHN 1:9 That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.
JOHN 1:10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.
JOHN 1:11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.
JOHN 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
JOHN 1:13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

Here we see that Jesus came to his own, preceding this it spoke in

JOHN 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
That Jesus made every thing including us I asume. So He came to his own (created) and his own knew him not. We then see that [as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:]

I believe without a doubt that Jesus is The Son of God, and that his sacrificial purpose was fulfilled for the remission of MY sin, and I believe on HIS name. So therefore the Word of GOD states that following this I have the assurance that.....
JOHN 1:13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

I [James] has been given power to become a Son of GOD.

Man says I have to believe this and that, The Bible is much more precise and accurate. I am a Christian and no man can take that from me, because I have the assurance of one much mightier than man.

ROM 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
ROM 10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
ROM 10:11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
ROM 10:12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
ROM 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

Confession is made that The Lord Jesus has been risen from the dead.... and in verse 11, it states that I SHALL NOT BE ASHAMED.... I AM CHRISTIAN


James

 

[Serapha]

I don't mean to be disrespectful but I want to show you why I am Christian according to the Bible.

I think we would agree it has the last say in this. (Jehovah speaks only truth)

JOHN 1:9 That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.
JOHN 1:10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.
JOHN 1:11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.
JOHN 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
JOHN 1:13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

Here we see that Jesus came to his own, preceding this it spoke in

JOHN 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
That Jesus made every thing including us I asume. So He came to his own (created) and his own knew him not. We then see that [as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:]

I believe without a doubt that Jesus is The Son of God, and that his sacrificial purpose was fulfilled for the remission of MY sin, and I believe on HIS name. So therefore the Word of GOD states that following this I have the assurance that.....
JOHN 1:13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

I [James] has been given power to become a Son of GOD.

Man says I have to believe this and that, The Bible is much more precise and accurate. I am a Christian and no man can take that from me, because I have the assurance of one much mightier than man.

ROM 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
ROM 10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
ROM 10:11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
ROM 10:12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
ROM 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

Confession is made that The Lord Jesus has been risen from the dead.... and in verse 11, it states that I SHALL NOT BE ASHAMED....

Man may have judged me because of my upbringing, but Jehovah God knows me inside out and I can't fool him. He gives me assurance.

With respect this is my stand

James

Hello James,



I mean this in kindness, and I know that you feel a lot of passion about what you know to be truth.... so, here's praying that you understand what I am saying.


When you place your faith in Jesus Christ, and "that" Jesus Christ doesn't have all the attributes of God, then you have misplaced your faith and put your faith in a misleading doctrine. Only God can forgive your sins.

It was the incarnate "God" who died on the cross, and it was the incarnate God that arose on the third day.... and it was a physical, bodily resurrection, not just a spiritual resurrection. The blood of Jesus's physical body was sacrificed.

You may know this because when Jesus first spoke to Mary, He told her not to touch his body because he had not yet ascended to the Father... but later in the same day... Jesus walked into a closed room in a glorified body of flesh and bones... no blood in that body because the blood had been sacrificed on the mercy seat in heaven... the ultimate sacrifice. The stone to the tomb was rolled away so a physical body could come out of the grave. If it were a spiritual body, there would have been no need for the stone to be moved, Christ could have just walked through the stone.


So... is your faith in a Christ who arose in a physical body or in a spiritual body? Is your faith in a Christ who was deity from before time began, was deity while on the earth incarnate, and who will be deity forever???


You have to know "the Christ of Calvary" is the reason you are saved.

I invite you to "start over" in your Christian walk by asking the Christ of Calvary to forgive your sins, knowing that he was, is, and always will be 100% God.


Say the "sinner's prayer" with faith in the "Christ of Calvary" and not the spiritual, mortal Jesus of Watchtower teachings.


I love you in the Lord...


~serapha~

 

[Serapha]

James...


I would love to "label" you a Christian....


Salvation isn't about "creeds"... that's just a measurement tool..


Salvation is a process, a spiritual journey through this world... but the first step in that process is to BELIEVE in the Christ of Calvary


As you know.. salvation IS about a personal relationship.... but it has to be a relationship that is based on the "right" Jesus Christ.... and not some "wannabe".

I have to go to work... but I will be praying for you...

It's like "Coke".... drink the "real" thing.. and stop drinking something that looks like it but doesn't have all the same ingredients... just as there is only one "Coke"... there's only one Christ that can save...


~serapha~

 

[Bonhoffer]

When people say that JW's aren't Christians they are simply being honest, not being hurtful.

It would for example be inaccurate for someone to say that Buddhists are Hindus. They may have similar beleifs but to claim it is the same religion would be a false statement to make.

It could also be dangerous for Christians to accept JW as true Christianity. Lets imagine that JW teaching is false and leads people to hell. For Christians to say otherwise would be dangerous. It would be like telling people that its safe to cross a minefield, when it isnt.

The JW beleif in no eternal damnation would also be regarded as dangerous and unChristian. If there is no hell then why did Jesus die? What is Jesus saving us from? What about judgement ? Christianity does not make any sense without the concept of hell, and I personally beleive that one has to recognise that they are hellbound before they can be saved.

Dont be personally offended if someone says you are not a Christian. They would be doing you a disfavour if they told you that you were. Have you heard the phrase "being cruel to be kind". If you saw someone walking into a fire and the only way to stop them was to shout something which might offend them, would you shout at them?
I would sooner be insulted by what somebody says and go to heaven, than have somebody say I was on the right track and then go to hell.

Most decent Christians don't have any problem with JW themselves, they just think that your going to get hurt one day.

Ignore what Man says to you and consult your Bible. Not any special JW Bible, but just an ordinary plain Bible and read it. Inside there is everything you need to know about God and salvation. It might be best to also look at differing points of veiw on different teachings and verses. As God to show you the truth and question JW teaching.

JW have a bad name for being controlling of its members and telling people who disagree or who wish to leave that they are evil. If this is the case with you then please 'leave'!! Remember Christianity is about a relationship with God, not about being part of an organisation. Never trust the words of men, but only what God says in the Bible. If God says hell exists then it exists. Afterall "all scripture is God breathed". None of it can be wrong because why would God leave us with a faulty book. That would make him a liar. If the teaching of hell isnt true then why should we beleive that Jesus even died on the cross ? The Bible is either the word of God or it isnt.
If it isnt the word of God then you shouldnt bother with Christianity at all, because that would mean its a false religion. But if it is the word of God then you must accept it all as truth and reject anything which people tell you which says otherwise.

 

[Bonhoffer]

as for whether you personally are a Christian. Well only God knows you heart. But remember that Jesus says someone can only see the Kingdom of Heaven if they are 'born-again'. To be born-again you must "confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and beleive in your heart that God raised him from dead and you will be saved" This is what the Bible teaches.

John 3:16 also says "for God so loved the world he gave his only begotten son that whoever beleives in him shall not perish but have eternal life"

This would imply that unbeleivers are going to hell, but all beleivers in the Jesus described in the gospel who have repented will go to heaven.

The Bible also warns about 'false christs' and I beleive the JW Christ to be a false one; and one of St Pauls letters tells people not to accept any other gospel than the one in the Bible.

 

[Bonhoffer]

Being told you aren't a Christian is cruel and unfair and I'm sorry you are being treated badly.
Goodluck.

Is not unfair if its true. I'm not offended when someone says I'm not a Muslim. As for it being cruel, well it might hurt a bit but it would be far, far more cruel if JW's were accepted as Christians. We can except them as human beings, but not as fellow Christians because it simply isnt true.
As for being treated badly; well are men being treated badly when they are not allowed into the womens tiolets?

 

[SpiritPsalmist]

MOD HAT ON

Please remember this is NOT a debate forum.

 

[nyj]

Being told you aren't a Christian is cruel and unfair and I'm sorry you are being treated badly.

Hypothetical situation:

I am caucasian. I go around telling everyone I'm chinese. Someone who is chinese then tells me that I am not actually chinese. Was he being cruel and unfair, or just stating a fact?

 

[JW youth]

Hypothetical situation:

I am caucasian. I go around telling everyone I'm chinese. Someone who is chinese then tells me that I am not actually chinese. Was he being cruel and unfair, or just stating a fact?

I think you may have got caught up in a replying post rather than the original..... My words were not cruel and unfair...

I feel shut out, I am not a non believer but one who LOVES Jehovah, and yet I am judged and relegated to a non christian area. It adds to the mixed feelings and it is a struggle in itself. I can't help that.

 

[oldrooster]

When you subscribe to one of the fringe elements, you just will have to accept it.

 

[MQTA]

Therein lies the problem facing all mankind in the 21st Century?

The Bible is either the word of God or it isnt.
If it isnt the word of God then you shouldnt bother with Christianity at all, because that would mean its a false religion. But if it is the word of God then you must accept it all as truth and reject anything which people tell you which says otherwise.

 

[JW youth]

Therein lies the problem facing all mankind in the 21st Century?

I agree, and when we are born we have no choice until we reach some maturity where we mat worship and whether The Bible has been taken out of context. All my life I will never reach a full conclusion but it is a journey I look forward to with great anticipation and JOY as Jehovah God reveals my path and journey.

I just pray that man and my mind doesn't get in the way

When we realise this and rest in His promises I think our own internals battles will begin to cease.

James