Why many native speakers can't pronounce "Nuclear" properly?

IceJad

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Most people don't realise that Australian English is one of the more efficient variations of English. By selectively shortening words we have achieved an incredibly high rate of "information per syllable". There is a suggestion that Australian English be adopted for international military communications based on this 'data per syllable' efficiency along with its inaccessibility to non-English speakers.

(I have an ancient minor in Linguistics and recall reading Labov, Chomsky and Sapir many years ago. I currently have a copy of Wolfram and Schilling on "American English-Dialects and Variation" sitting on my desk. I am an unrepentant word nerd and Spelling Nazi with a casual interest in the history and etymology of English.)


OB

Please you Aussies can't beat us Malaysians in terms of shortening English to achieve an incredibly high rate of "information per syllable". We mastered English so we can butcher it to a whole new level called Manglish.

While you're all still asking like "where is my pen?" and reply like "Here."

We have been asking like "Pen leh?" and reply with "nah".
 
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IceJad

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Its a legitimate difference in dialect. It is not that people from some regions of the US pronounce it incorrectly, rather, it is specific to their accent. Just like how most English people pronounce “China” as “Chiner” and Dinner as “Dinnah” (a dialect feature called Rhoticity, which also features in some American accents of Boston, New York and the South).

Oddly I don't think it is a dialect issue. At least not for the word "Nuclear". With words like China where the "i" is pronounce with "y" I can still understand the origins.

While it might be odd to some listeners, the speaker is just pronouncing "Chi" differently. Unlike Nucular where the "cu" is in no way anywhere adjacent in sound to "cle" in Nuclear.

So to have people deliberately mispronouncing Nuclear with a "cu" is baffling. I believe that sfs & dzheremi have given links that more accurately explain the phenomenon.
 
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The Liturgist

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Oddly I don't think it is a dialect issue. At least not for the word "Nuclear". With words like China where the "i" is pronounce with "y" I can still understand the origins.

While it might be odd to some listeners, the speaker is just pronouncing "Chi" differently. Unlike Nucular where the "cu" is in no way anywhere adjacent in sound to "cle" in Nuclear.

So to have people deliberately mispronouncing Nuclear with a "cu" is baffling. I believe that sfs & dzheremi have given links that more accurately explain the phenomenon.

With all due respect, much damage has been done to English and other languages by people presuming to know what is and is not “correct.”

In this case you are making an argument from standard phonology, to which I would point out that English phonology was not standardized until relatively recently, and furthermore was standardized differently between the US and Canada on the one hand and the UK, Ireland, Australia, South Africa, New Zealand, etc, on the other. And to a large extent the older standardized British phonology, which was effectively replaced in the US by a new system developed by Daniel Webster, seems to contradict phonic principles, for example, centre makes less phonetic sense than center, but if we look at the phonology of other languages, for example, the Turkic languages, or Hungarian, or Portuguese, the reading of “Nuclear” as “Nukular” with an implied extra syllable becomes much less of an oddity. And for that matter, consider the great oddity that words ending in “ough” pose in the English language. Enough is pronounced Enuf, with an implied consonant, whereas Through is pronounced like Threw, and Thorough rhymes with furrow.

It is particularly tempting for a non-English speaker who has learned English on the basis of phonology to pass judgement on forms of English based on apparent contradictions with phonological norms, but a native speaker or one who attains a native level of skill and is well read in English will know that English phonology is spectacularly inconsistent, dialects are spectacularly diverse, there are numerous incidents of dialects inserting syllables or other sounds not indicated phonologically (for example, Canadian raising in words like about), and phonology between languages is even more inconsistent, and while arguably better than most pictographic systems, are still limited and inconsistent, hence the example of the IPA.
 
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Occams Barber

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With all due respect, much damage has been done to English and other languages by people presuming to know what is and is not “correct.”

In this case you are making an argument from standard phonology, to which I would point out that English phonology was not standardized until relatively recently, and furthermore was standardized differently between the US and Canada on the one hand and the UK, Ireland, Australia, South Africa, New Zealand, etc, on the other. And to a large extent the older standardized British phonology, which was effectively replaced in the US by a new system developed by Daniel Webster, seems to contradict phonic principles, for example, centre makes less phonetic sense than center, but if we look at the phonology of other languages, for example, the Turkic languages, or Hungarian, or Portuguese, the reading of “Nuclear” as “Nukular” with an implied extra syllable becomes much less of an oddity. And for that matter, consider the great oddity that words ending in “ough” pose in the English language. Enough is pronounced Enuf, with an implied consonant, whereas Through is pronounced like Threw, and Thorough rhymes with furrow.

It is particularly tempting for a non-English speaker who has learned English on the basis of phonology to pass judgement on forms of English based on apparent contradictions with phonological norms, but a native speaker or one who attains a native level of skill and is well read in English will know that English phonology is spectacularly inconsistent, dialects are spectacularly diverse, there are numerous incidents of dialects inserting syllables or other sounds not indicated phonologically (for example, Canadian raising in words like about), and phonology between languages is even more inconsistent, and while arguably better than most pictographic systems, are still limited and inconsistent, hence the example of the IPA.

I am taking up a collection to fund a new sense of humour to replace the one you appear to have lost somewhere in this discussion.

OB
 
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Lost4words

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I hear it all too often in youtube videos especially American ones. Why can't they pronounce nuclear as just nu-clear instead of the ear grading nu-cu-lar. The word "clear" is in the spelling for the love of the Lord Almighty. Pronounce NU + CLEAR it is that simple.

English is my second language and the second most widely spoken in my country. And let me say I have never heard a single Malaysian pronounce it as nu-cu-lar. It is all nu-clear.

Baffles me to no end.

I pronounce it as 'Woof'
 
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Matt5

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I hear it all too often in youtube videos especially American ones. Why can't they pronounce nuclear as just nu-clear instead of the ear grading nu-cu-lar. The word "clear" is in the spelling for the love of the Lord Almighty. Pronounce NU + CLEAR it is that simple.

English is my second language and the second most widely spoken in my country. And let me say I have never heard a single Malaysian pronounce it as nu-cu-lar. It is all nu-clear.

Baffles me to no end.

If somebody said nu-clear to me, I would wonder if that is some kind of new cleaning product that happens to be clear.
 
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IceJad

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If somebody said nu-clear to me, I would wonder if that is some kind of new cleaning product that happens to be clear.
I hope you are not one of the silo operators. I fear you might mistake a lunch order for a launch order.

You can't be...

Can you be?...

... Please don't be....

Oh Lord, you're aren't you...

Help!!!!!! Someone stop this person!!!!
 
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dzheremi

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Most people don't realise that Australian English is one of the more efficient variations of English. By selectively shortening words we have achieved an incredibly high rate of "information per syllable".

The Australia-shaming part of my reply wasn't serious, but now that it has been brought up, I would think the Singaporeans would have a little something to say about this "information per syllable" idea, and whatever it is that they would say, it would probably end in "lah".

 
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IceJad

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The Australia-shaming part of my reply wasn't serious, but now that it has been brought up, I would think the Singaporeans would have a little something to say about this "information per syllable" idea, and whatever it is that they would say, it would probably end in "lah".


"Lar" or "Lah" is applicable to both Malaysians & Singaporeans. We use to be a single country after all. A very versatile word that can be use to both shorten or lengthen a sentence. Wonders of Manglish and Singlish.
 
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