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Why Jesus won't reign on this Earth for 1,000 years

Discussion in 'Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum' started by random person, Jul 19, 2014.

  1. BABerean2

    BABerean2 Newbie Supporter

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    Paul did in the passage below, when the minion of Satan did as Paul commanded.

    Act 16:16 Now it happened, as we went to prayer, that a certain slave girl possessed with a spirit of divination met us, who brought her masters much profit by fortune-telling.
    Act 16:17 This girl followed Paul and us, and cried out, saying, "These men are the servants of the Most High God, who proclaim to us the way of salvation."
    Act 16:18 And this she did for many days. But Paul, greatly annoyed, turned and said to the spirit, "I command you in the name of Jesus Christ to come out of her." And he came out that very hour.


    Those in the passage below could not.

    Act 19:13 Then some of the itinerant Jewish exorcists took it upon themselves to call the name of the Lord Jesus over those who had evil spirits, saying, "We exorcise you by the Jesus whom Paul preaches."
    Act 19:14 Also there were seven sons of Sceva, a Jewish chief priest, who did so.
    Act 19:15 And the evil spirit answered and said, "Jesus I know, and Paul I know; but who are you?"
    Act 19:16 Then the man in whom the evil spirit was leaped on them, overpowered them, and prevailed against them, so that they fled out of that house naked and wounded.

    .......................

    What did Christ say below?

    Luk 10:17 Then the seventy returned with joy, saying, "Lord, even the demons are subject to us in Your name."
    Luk 10:18 And He said to them, "I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven.
    Luk 10:19 Behold, I give you the authority to trample on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy, and nothing shall by any means hurt you.
    Luk 10:20 Nevertheless do not rejoice in this, that the spirits are subject to you, but rather rejoice because your names are written in heaven."

    .
     
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2019
  2. DavidPT

    DavidPT Well-Known Member

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    You know why Paul was able to do that? That is because he did not do that during the thousand years, but did it before the thousand years in question in Revelation 20.

    I'm failing to understand what you are not grasping then? According to Revelation 20 an angel comes down from heaven and binds satan. It indicates the binding stays in full affect for the entire thousand years. Therefore no need for anyone else to also bind satan during the thousand years if he is already bound to begin with. That would be what is called an overkill.

    If you wanted to apply the binding and loosing concept to satan not during the thousand years, in that case I would find no dispute with that. What I'm disputing is that it would be an overkill, thus totally unnecessary, to bind satan during the thousand years if he is already bound. This seems to further prove satan can't be bound yet then. I'm pretty sure the binding and loosing concept you brought up, that this would be valid throughout the entire church age. Therefore the entire church age and the thousand years can't be running in parallel. Plus let's not forget, satan is never loosed at any time during the thousand years. Therefore anything having to do with binding and loosing doesn't have a thing to do with satan during the thousand years. It's not the same context.
     
  3. nolidad

    nolidad Well-Known Member Supporter

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    You arr in that Matthew records Jesus lineage through Joseph which would exclude him from the throne, while Luke records His lineage through Mary (His true human lineage).

    Luke:
    27 Which was the son of Joanna, which was the son of Rhesa, which was the son of Zorobabel, which was the son of Salathiel, which was the son of Neri,

    28 Which was the son of Melchi, which was the son of Addi, which was the son of Cosam, which was the son of Elmodam, which was the son of Er,

    29 Which was the son of Jose, which was the son of Eliezer, which was the son of Jorim, which was the son of Matthat, which was the son of Levi,

    Matthew:
    9 And Ozias begat Joatham; and Joatham begat Achaz; and Achaz begat Ezekias;

    10 And Ezekias begat Manasses; and Manasses begat Amon; and Amon begat Josias;

    11 And Josias begat Jechonias and his brethren, about the time they were carried away to Babylon:

    12 And after they were brought to Babylon, Jechonias begat Salathiel; and Salathiel begat Zorobabel;


    Different lineages! Mary's line allows HIm to sit on the throne.
     
  4. BABerean2

    BABerean2 Newbie Supporter

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    You continue to attempt to ignore the fact that Satan is only bound in one way during the time period.
    A grizzly bear with a muzzle may not bite you, but he can still kill you because the bear is only bound in one way.


    Rev 20:3 and he cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal on him, so that he should deceive the nations no more till the thousand years were finished. But after these things he must be released for a little while.

    Before the time the Book of Acts was written the Gentile nations were totally deceived by Satan.
    Since that time the Gospel has spread throughout most of the world.
    Do you disagree with this fact?

    If we are not in the time period that Satan has been released to deceive the nations again, we must be close.

    .
     
  5. ebedmelech

    ebedmelech My dog Micah in the pic Supporter

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    This would not be correct. The lineage of Christ under both Joseph and Mary actually are recorded to prove Jesus right to the throne, not exclude it.

    On what basis does Joseph's lineage exclude Christ from the throne? Please prove that.
     
  6. Marilyn C

    Marilyn C Newbie Supporter

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    Hi ebedmelech,

    Yes again we agree that the Lord has all power and authority. No dispute there. However we are looking for the Lord`s `own throne,` with the overcomers too. It is there where the Lord will be visible. At the moment He is in the heavenly sanctuary at the Father`s right hand, in the Godhead, and there we cannot see Him for they are in the invisible realm. God is Spirit. (Heb. 8: 1 & 2) And we of course will not be there.

    So still looking for this throne of the Lord`s. Now may I ask you where you think `Mount Zion` of Ps. 2: 6 is?

    `Yet I have set my King on my holy hill of Zion.` (Ps. 2: 6)

    Marilyn.
     
  7. DavidPT

    DavidPT Well-Known Member

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    You make a valid point here anyway. I can't argue with this. But if that same bear, instead of being bound with just a muzzle, was instead wrapped up with a chain, but not like a leash though, but wrapped up like when one is in a straight jacket, then cast into a deep pit, then locked up inside of it, could that same bear still kill you then if you are not down in the pit with it?

    Do you not see what you are doing here? You are changing imagery that involves being wrapped up in a chain, cast into a deep pit, then the pit closed tight, with that of a lesser binding that's not even remotely like the one depicted in Revelation 20. Let's not forget, not only is he bound, he is also being imprisoned.


    Why give satan so much credit for this? It's as if you think, had satan not been bound, the gospel would have failed to spread throughout most of the world. My opinion is this. God is the one in charge here. God is the sovereign one not satan. What makes God so awesome, He can still succeed in spite of satan trying to throw a monkey wrench into everything. He doesn't need to have satan bound in order to have the upper hand on him.
     
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2019
  8. BABerean2

    BABerean2 Newbie Supporter

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    Just like those described below...

    2Pe_2:4 For if God did not spare the angels who sinned, but cast them down to hell and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved for judgment;

    Jud_1:6 And the angels who did not keep their proper domain, but left their own abode, He has reserved in everlasting chains under darkness for the judgment of the great day;


    Where is Satan imprisoned?

    Other angels such as Michael, and Gabriel can travel from heaven to the earth.
    Can Satan now do the same thing?


    Gen 3:14 So the LORD God said to the serpent: "Because you have done this, You are cursed more than all cattle, And more than every beast of the field; On your belly you shall go, And you shall eat dust All the days of your life.


    Luk 10:17 Then the seventy returned with joy, saying, "Lord, even the demons are subject to us in Your name."
    Luk 10:18 And He said to them, "I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven.
    Luk 10:19 Behold, I give you the authority to trample on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy, and nothing shall by any means hurt you.
    Luk 10:20 Nevertheless do not rejoice in this, that the spirits are subject to you, but rather rejoice because your names are written in heaven."

    .
     
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2019
  9. nolidad

    nolidad Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Because Joseph lineage is in Matthew which shows Jeconiah as a relative. God cursed Jeconiah and said none of his offspring would sit on the throne.

    Now th eLuke lineage shows Mary's line. I can give you the resource that shows when a man had no sons He could take his daughters husband as a son for purpose of lineage and inheritance, but the Luke passage shows Mary's line. It does not run through Jeconiah so, Jesus by birthright (as He only had Mary a as human parent) can sit on the throne!

    There is an excellent series that details this in depth found at ariel.org from Dr. Arnold Fruchtenbaum. It is the Life of Christ form a Hebrew Perspective. I have used this 4 volume series in teaching at Bible Institute and it goes into great detail of Hebrew life and minidset and practices including lineages.
     
  10. ebedmelech

    ebedmelech My dog Micah in the pic Supporter

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    While this is true, what one cannot see doesn't negate what is. I notice you didn't answer what the Lord Jesus is seated on at the right hand of God the Father, nor did you answer what I asked in reference to John 17. May I ask why?

    Sure Marilyn. Heberews 12:22-24 answers that perfectly:

    22 But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to myriads of angels,
    23 to the general assembly and church of the firstborn who are enrolled in heaven, and to God, the Judge of all, and to the spirits of the righteous made perfect,
    24 and to Jesus, the mediator of a new covenant, and to the sprinkled blood, which speaks better
    than the blood of Abel.

    Now, also recall Psalm 2:6 please...and understand Jesus reigns:
    6 “But as for Me, I have installed My King Upon Zion, My holy mountain.”
     
  11. ebedmelech

    ebedmelech My dog Micah in the pic Supporter

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    You're reading too much into the curse. It was Jeconiah's "offspring" that wouldn't be allowed to sit on the throne. For his wickedness, God allowed Jeconiah to be carried off to Babylon, where he died. It's right there in Jeremiah 22:24-30.

    There are plenty of "excellent series" that have errors in them. Fruchtenbaum's series may have excellent information in them, but on this point, I have to say he missed, because the lineage doesn't deny Christ to the throne.
     
  12. nolidad

    nolidad Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Yes it does!

    Jer. 22: verse 30 is key. No seed of Jeconaih shall sit upon the throne of David!

    24 As I live, saith the Lord, though Coniah the son of Jehoiakim king of Judah were the signet upon my right hand, yet would I pluck thee thence;

    25 And I will give thee into the hand of them that seek thy life, and into the hand of them whose face thou fearest, even into the hand of Nebuchadrezzar king of Babylon, and into the hand of the Chaldeans.

    26 And I will cast thee out, and thy mother that bare thee, into another country, where ye were not born; and there shall ye die.

    27 But to the land whereunto they desire to return, thither shall they not return.

    28 Is this man Coniah a despised broken idol? is he a vessel wherein is no pleasure? wherefore are they cast out, he and his seed, and are cast into a land which they know not?

    29 O earth, earth, earth, hear the word of the Lord.

    30 Thus saith the Lord, Write ye this man childless, a man that shall not prosper in his days: for no man of his seed shall prosper, sitting upon the throne of David, and ruling any more in Judah.

    YOu forget that seed also included all those down the line! And seed is children, so it was his grandchildren down the line!
     
  13. ebedmelech

    ebedmelech My dog Micah in the pic Supporter

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    No nolidad...you're looking with tunnel vision. Follow this link because I really don't have time to explain it, but this lays it out pretty well:

    Curse of Jeconiah Lifted - Revisiting Reversing Refuting |

    Now nolidad, would you please read Jeremiah 23:1-6? You're just not understanding what's happening by the power of an Omniscient God!!!
     
  14. jgr

    jgr Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Nothing can deny Christ His throne, because it is not an earthly carnal throne awaiting future occupancy, but a heavenly spiritual throne which He has always occupied.

    Psalm 45
    6 Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: the sceptre of thy kingdom is a right sceptre.

    Hebrews 1
    8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.

    Regarding David's throne, Jeremiah declares...:

    Jeremiah 33
    17 For thus saith the Lord; David shall never want a man to sit upon the throne of the house of Israel;

    ...because that throne has been relocated to heaven and occupied by the Son of Man since His resurrection.

    Peter confirms:

    Acts 2
    29 Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day.
    30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;
    31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.

    The throne of God and His Son has ever and always been occupied, as has David's throne since Christ arose.
     
  15. nolidad

    nolidad Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Well I agree with the premise of the article you linked. I disagree with some of his points, based on Jewish history and Jewish writings. Also Zerubabbel was never anointed King according to God but was appointed The kings ended with Zedekiah

    I totally agree with Jeremiah 23:1-6 So what is your point?
     
  16. nolidad

    nolidad Well-Known Member Supporter

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    YOu also forget that seed refers to all the line down through history!

    Jesus is the seed of David!

    the 12 tribes are the seed of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob!

    Romans 11:1
    I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, ofthe tribe of Benjamin.

    2 Corinthians 11:22
    Are they Hebrews? so am I. Are they Israelites? so am I. Are they the seed of Abraham? so am I.

    If Jesus was of Jeconiah (which He is not) then her could not ascend the throne- His blood line is through Mary not Joseph.
     
  17. LittleLambofJesus

    LittleLambofJesus PESKY DEVIL! GIT! l SAID GIT! Supporter

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    There are 2 great threads on those events. All of Isaiah 6:2 was fulfilled in the 1st century up to 70ad.........

    "DAYS OF VENGEANCE" Isaiah 61:2 and Luke 21:22 Revelation

    And now the prophetic end time verse of Luke 21:22 of the 70ad Temple/Jerusalem discourse.

    Isaiah 61:2
    To proclaim<7121> the year of the good pleasure<7522> of Yahweh,
    And the day of vengeance <5359> of our 'Elohim, To comfort all mourners.

    Luke 21:22
    For these are the days of vengeance<1557>,
    to fulfill<4130> all things having been written<1125>.
    =========================================
    How can satan be already bound without contradicting Revelation 12?
     
  18. ebedmelech

    ebedmelech My dog Micah in the pic Supporter

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    Jewish historical writings have a place and lend insight...but to give it more weight than scripture wouldn't be proper. Jesus spoke of how much they had added to the law of God...so while the writings are historical, they equally show where they departed from what God commanded.

    Zedekiah was really Nebuchadnezzar's appointment...he counts in no real way because he was a puppet king.

    The point is there were no rightful kings after Jehoiachin...so how does Jesus not be a rightful heir to the throne. God was faithful to the Davidic Covenant nolidad.

    You're missing the point of the curse and making my point to a degree. There were no rightful heirs of the seed of Jehoiachin that would sit on the throne nolidad. That's the point you're missing, which doesn't negate the genealogy of Matthew...it's valid. This is why I questioned you about it in the first place...it's a genealogy..not a line of kings (though kings are in it).
     
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  19. Marilyn C

    Marilyn C Newbie Supporter

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    Hi ebedmelech,

    Oh I thought when I said I agreed to the Lord having all authority, that that covered it. (re: John 17)

    Now for Mt Zion. great we both agree that that heavenly one, is in the third heaven. I`m sure you would agree that it symbolises where the ruler has His seat of Power and authority, as king David had his on earth in Mount Zion in Jerusalem.

    So....WHEN does Ps. 2 say that the Lord will be reigning, operating in His great power & authority over the nations?

    Marilyn.
     
  20. nolidad

    nolidad Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Yes Jewish writings have a place, they give us the background and linguistic insight and cultural insight to better understand the words of Scripture, as originally spoken and not interpreted from a 21st century mindset.

    Like one poser for you. A Passage says Jesus was leaving Bethany and at teh same time going to Bethany? How?


    Jesus is the rightful heir! I never said different. Just not through Joseph! Kings come from a genealogical line! If you are a direct seed of Jeconiah- you cannot be an heir to the throne. Jesus is not a seed of Jeconiah.

    Then ignore Him ! He is the last king of Judah even if put there by old Nebuchadnezzar! He had royal blood (Uncle to Jechoniah). Most of the kings of Israel and Judah were evil in the sight of God, many evil deeds were done to take the throne and not many were actually anointed by prophets. so include Zedekiah or not !
     
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