Why Jesus won't reign on this Earth for 1,000 years

[Marilyn C]

Are you saying some at the GWTJ are not judged to the LOF?

Hi ewq,

Yes that is what I believe God`s word says. remember that some people throughout history have never heard of Jesus but we know that God has given them a conscience. If they act according to what they know is right then they will be judged by that and then be able to go on to the new earth.

Marilyn.

 

[Marilyn C]

In response to post 156 (ewq1938) and 157 (Marilyn), I would like you both to explain your view of what Peter means here in Acts 2:36:
36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know for certain that God has made Him both Lord and Christ—this Jesus whom you crucified.”

Perhaps going forward from there, even if we disagree, it' can be understood why.

Hi ebedmelech,

Finally get time to answer. Peter is telling the people of Israel that Jesus, the one they crucified is both the Lord and Christ. The Lord, above all, and the Christ, the anointed one of the Father, whom Israel was waiting for. They thought the one to come would be their deliverer from their enemies the Romans, however Peter is saying that Jesus, (the Saviour, deliverer) is also the Lord, their Supreme Master. And this was much more than they ever realised.

And my question is still `Where in scripture is the Lord`s own throne?`(Rev. 3: 21)

Marilyn.

 

[DavidPT]

And my question is still `Where in scripture is the Lord`s own throne?`(Rev. 3: 21)

I realize you didn't ask me this, so I hope you don't mind me attempting to address it though.

Revelation 3:21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.

There are obviously two thrones being depicted here.

1---in my throne

2---in his throne.

The way I tend to reason it, when this is fulfilled in the future---To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne---this is when the reigning with Christ a thousand years initially begins.


Currently Jesus is not sitting in His own throne, but is sitting with His Father in His Father's throne, which basically means sitting on the right hand of God. Only one being in the entire universe is worthy of that honor, meaning Jesus.

The text does not say this----To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my Father's throne. Which would then place the overcomers equal to Jesus' position, that being on the right hand of God. That of course is not even remotely reasonable.

When does and where does Jesus initially sit on His own throne?

Matthew 25:31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:

I would say as of here. Where will this be? On the earth of course.

 

[Marilyn C]

I realize you didn't ask me this, so I hope you don't mind me attempting to address it though.

Revelation 3:21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.

There are obviously two thrones being depicted here.

1---in my throne

2---in his throne.

The way I tend to reason it, when this is fulfilled in the future---To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne---this is when the reigning with Christ a thousand years initially begins.


Currently Jesus is not sitting in His own throne, but is sitting with His Father in His Father's throne, which basically means sitting on the right hand of God. Only one being in the entire universe is worthy of that honor, meaning Jesus.

The text does not say this----To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my Father's throne. Which would then place the overcomers equal to Jesus' position, that being on the right hand of God. That of course is not even remotely reasonable.

When does and where does Jesus initially sit on His own throne?

Matthew 25:31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:

I would say as of here. Where will this be? On the earth of course.

Hi David,

I am pleased you answered my question with your thoughts. I agree that we, the Body of Christ who will sit with the Lord on His own throne, will not be on the Father`s throne. Now that throne/authority is beyond the created order, as they are the Godhead.

Then you led us to Matt. 25 where the Lord will sit on the throne of His glory. Now I also believe that that is the Lord`s own throne, for it says so. However we need to remember that the glorified Lord Jesus has authority far above all. So for His own throne, the seat of His authority and power to come from the earth has some problems.

1. Jesus told Pilate that His kingdom/ruleship is not of this world. No one on earth gave Him His authority to rule.

2. It would make the Lord`s own throne/authority below the angels, below where Satan ruled.

Now if we realise that the word `throne` indicates authority then it becomes clearer. The Lord `will sit on the throne of His glory,` means that He will judge the nations, with His authority He has from above. Thus His own throne is higher up, actually in the third heaven.

Would you like to try and show where that is? And when He `moves` there, meaning when He begins to operate in His own authority, (under the Father)?

regards, Marilyn.

 

[DavidPT]

Would you like to try and show where that is? And when He `moves` there, meaning when He begins to operate in His own authority, (under the Father)?

You lost me here. We wouldn't be on the same page about this portion. I'm pretty much clueless as to what you are meaning here.

 

[Marilyn C]

You lost me here. We wouldn't be on the same page about this portion. I'm pretty much clueless as to what you are meaning here.

Hi David,

Sorry if I was not very clear. As per my post regarding why the Lord`s own throne could not originate from earth, I was wondering have you any other thoughts where it is and where in God`s word do we see this most important of thrones - the Lord`s own throne?

Marilyn.

 

[Semper-Fi]

Jeremiah 3:17 (KJV)
At that time they shall call Jerusalem the throne of the Lord; and all the nations shall be gathered unto it, to the name of the Lord, to Jerusalem: neither shall they walk any more after theimagination of their evil heart.

 

[ebedmelech]

Hello Marilyn, sorry to be so long responding, but work had me busy.

Hi ebedmelech,

Finally get time to answer. Peter is telling the people of Israel that Jesus, the one they crucified is both the Lord and Christ. The Lord, above all, and the Christ, the anointed one of the Father, whom Israel was waiting for. They thought the one to come would be their deliverer from their enemies the Romans, however Peter is saying that Jesus, (the Saviour, deliverer) is also the Lord, their Supreme Master. And this was much more than they ever realised.

This is true Marilyn, but I think you're misreading the passage. This is how Peter states it...Acts:2:36:

36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know for certain that God has made Him both Lord and Christ—this Jesus whom you crucified.”

The point being that God exalted Jesus as Lord and Christ after He was raised. This is the point of Psalm 110:1 which (as I've asserted before), Hebrews 1 is attempting painstakingly, to make this clear. Hebrews 1:3-4:

3 And He is the radiance of His glory and the exact representation of His nature, and upholds all things by the word of His power. When He had made purification of sins, He sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high,
4 having become as much better than the angels, as He has inherited a more excellent name than they.

Once again pointing out the exalted position of the Lord Jesus after He laid down His life!

And my question is still `Where in scripture is the Lord`s own throne?`(Rev. 3: 21)

Marilyn.

Start with Hebrews 1:3 above. What would you think The Lord Jesus sat on at God's right hand?

Then there's Colossians 3:1:
Therefore if you have been raised up with Christ, keep seeking the things above, where Christ is, seated at the right hand of God.

Again, what is Christ seated on at God's right hand?

There's also Hebrews 1:8, 4:16, 8:1 and 12:1. Christs' throne is right now at the right hand of God the Father.

 

[Semper-Fi]

Ezekiel 48:35 (KJV)
It was round about eighteen thousand measures:
and the name of the city from that day shall be,
The Lord is there.

 

[BABerean2]

Jeremiah 3:17 (KJV)
At that time they shall call Jerusalem the throne of the Lord; and all the nations shall be gathered unto it, to the name of the Lord, to Jerusalem: neither shall they walk any more after theimagination of their evil heart.

Which Jerusalem?

Joh 4:20 Our fathers worshiped on this mountain, and you Jews say that in Jerusalem is the place where one ought to worship."
Joh 4:21 Jesus said to her, "Woman, believe Me, the hour is coming when you will neither on this mountain, nor in Jerusalem, worship the Father.
Joh 4:22 You worship what you do not know; we know what we worship, for salvation is of the Jews.
Joh 4:23 But the hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for the Father is seeking such to worship Him.
Joh 4:24 God is Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth."

Gal 4:25 for this Hagar is Mount Sinai in Arabia, and corresponds to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children—
Gal 4:26 but the Jerusalem above is free, which is the mother of us all.


Heb 11:15 And truly if they had called to mind that country from which they had come out, they would have had opportunity to return.
Heb 11:16 But now they desire a better, that is, a heavenly country. Therefore God is not ashamed to be called their God, for He has prepared a city for them.


Heb 12:22 But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, to an innumerable company of angels,
Heb 12:23 to the general assembly and church of the firstborn who are registered in heaven, to God the Judge of all, to the spirits of just men made perfect,
Heb 12:24 to Jesus the Mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling that speaks better things than that of Abel.


Rev_3:12 He who overcomes, I will make him a pillar in the temple of My God, and he shall go out no more. I will write on him the name of My God and the name of the city of My God, the New Jerusalem, which comes down out of heaven from My God. And I will write on him My new name.

The timing is found in 2 Peter 3:10-13.
Peter was looking for the New Heavens and the New Earth, and I am looking for the same thing. I am not looking for the rotten, sin-cursed city found in Revelation 11:8.

.

 

[Semper-Fi]

[QUOTE="BABerean2, post: 74114460, member: 353202"]
Which Jerusalem?
[/QUOTE]

Revelation 11:15 (KJV)
And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

 

[Semper-Fi]

This is how Satan is bound..and it happened at the cross! Satan is bound by the work of Jesus at the cross. This is what Jesus means when he started His ministry! He said in Luke 4:16-19:

16 And He came to Nazareth, where He had been brought up; and as was His custom, He entered the synagogue on the Sabbath, and stood up to read.
17 And the book of the prophet Isaiah was handed to Him. And He opened the book and found the place where it was written,
18 “The Spirit of the Lord is upon Me, Because He anointed Me to preach the gospel to the poor. He has sent Me to proclaim release to the captives, And recovery of sight to the blind, To set free those who are oppressed,
19 To proclaim the favorable year of the Lord.”

That is how Satan is bound...by Jesus at the cross...everyone that is saved. Satan has been bound since the the cross. Why do you think Jesus says in John 8:36:
36 So if the Son makes you free, you will be free indeed.

If the devil is bound now, why does the bible
say he is god of this current age on earth?
Why then even need the power of the Holy Spirit?

Jesus defeated satan after being tempted in the desert.
That is when he was able to proclaimed the soon
comming kingdom of God on earth to rule on.

The parable of the noble man[Christ]
Luke 19:12 (KJV)
He said therefore, A certain nobleman[Christ] went into a far country to receive for himself a kingdom, and to return.


Think not that I am come to send peace on earth:
I came not to send peace, but a sword.

The second coming is in actuality a continuation of the first.

Luk 4:17 And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Esaias.
And when he had opened the book, he found the place where it was written,
Luk 4:18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me
to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted,
to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind,
to set at liberty them that are bruised,

Luk 4:19 To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.

Luk 4:20 And he closed the book, and he gave it again to the minister, and sat down.And the eyes of all them that were in the synagogue were fastened on him.

He stopped reading just there, closed the book,
and sat down? Christ was quoting Isaiah.

Isa 61:1 The Spirit of the Lord GOD is upon me; because the LORD hath anointed meto preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted,to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound;

Isa 61:2 To proclaim the acceptable year of the LORD,

And here is where He stopped reading in mid sentence.
Now the passage He quoted continues...

and [the day of vengeance] of our God; to comfort all that mourn;

Isa 61:3 To appoint unto them that mourn in Zion, to give unto them beauty
for ashes, the oil of joy for mourning, the garment of praise for the spirit of heaviness;that they might be called trees of righteousness, the planting of the LORD, that he might be glorified.

Isa 61:4 And they shall build the old wastes, they shall raise up the former desolations,
and they shall repair the waste cities, the desolations of many generations.
Isa 61:5 And strangers shall stand and feed your flocks, and the sons of the alien shall
be your plowmen and your vinedressers.
Isa 61:6 But ye shall be named the Priests of the LORD: men shall call you the Ministers
of our God: ye shall eat the riches of the Gentiles, and in their glory shall ye boast yourselves.

Isa 61:7 For your shame ye shall have double; and for confusion they shall rejoice in their
portion: therefore in their land they shall possess the double: everlasting joy shall be unto them.

He came the first time to complete Isa 61:1-2
but not all of verse 2.

When He returns, after the day of vengeance,
He will complete verse 2 and forward through verse 7.

 

[BABerean2]

If the devil is bound now, why does the bible
say he is god of this current age on earth?

2Pe_2:4 For if God did not spare the angels who sinned, but cast them down to hell and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved for judgment;

Jud_1:6 And the angels who did not keep their proper domain, but left their own abode, He has reserved in everlasting chains under darkness for the judgment of the great day;

Rev_9:14 saying to the sixth angel who had the trumpet, "Release the four angels who are bound at the great river Euphrates."

.

 

[Semper-Fi]

2Pe_2:4 For if God did not spare the angels who sinned, but cast them down to hell and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved for judgment;

Jud_1:6 And the angels who did not keep their proper domain, but left their own abode, He has reserved in everlasting chains under darkness for the judgment of the great day;

Rev_9:14 saying to the sixth angel who had the trumpet, "Release the four angels who are bound at the great river Euphrates."

.

Seems the devil is still around in rev.

Revelation 12:9 (KJV)
And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

Revelation 12:12 (KJV)
Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

 

[ebedmelech]

Seems the devil is still around in rev.

Revelation 12:9 (KJV)
And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

Revelation 12:12 (KJV)
Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

People are still being saved too . One has to understand what it means for Satan to be bound based on scripture. Satan was bound at the cross. Colossians 2:13-15:

13 When you were dead in your transgressions and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He made you alive together with Him, having forgiven us all our transgressions,
14 having canceled out the certificate of debt consisting of decrees against us, which was hostile to us; and He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross.
15 When He had disarmed the rulers and authorities, He made a public display of them, having triumphed over them through Him.

I provide this link to read on the binding of Satan, of course you'll have to make up your own mind about it, but it's my view.

The Binding of Satan by Douglas Kelly

 

[One Son]

Seems the devil is still around in rev.

Revelation 12:9 (KJV)
And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

Revelation 12:12 (KJV)
Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

Lk.10:16(ASV) He that heareth you heareth me; and he that rejecteth you rejecteth me; and he that rejecteth me rejecteth him that sent me.
17 And the seventy returned with joy, saying, Lord, even the demons are subject unto us in thy name.
18 And he said unto them, I beheld Satan fallen as lightning from heaven.
19 Behold, I have given you authority to tread upon serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy: and nothing shall in any wise hurt you. 20 Nevertheless in this rejoice not, that the spirits are subject unto you; but rejoice that your names are written in heaven.*


Jn.12:31(YLT) now is a judgment of this world, now shall the ruler of this world be cast forth;
32 and I, if I may be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto myself.’


Jn.16:11(YLT) and concerning judgment, because the ruler of this world hath been judged.
12 ‘I have yet many things to say to you, but ye are not able to bear [them] now;


*Rev.21:14 And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and on them twelve names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.





Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away; behold, the new has come.(2Cor.5:17).

 

[Marilyn C]

Hello Marilyn, sorry to be so long responding, but work had me busy.


This is true Marilyn, but I think you're misreading the passage. This is how Peter states it...Acts:2:36:

36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know for certain that God has made Him both Lord and Christ—this Jesus whom you crucified.”

The point being that God exalted Jesus as Lord and Christ after He was raised. This is the point of Psalm 110:1 which (as I've asserted before), Hebrews 1 is attempting painstakingly, to make this clear. Hebrews 1:3-4:

3 And He is the radiance of His glory and the exact representation of His nature, and upholds all things by the word of His power. When He had made purification of sins, He sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high,
4 having become as much better than the angels, as He has inherited a more excellent name than they.

Once again pointing out the exalted position of the Lord Jesus after He laid down His life!


Start with Hebrews 1:3 above. What would you think The Lord Jesus sat on at God's right hand?

Then there's Colossians 3:1:
Therefore if you have been raised up with Christ, keep seeking the things above, where Christ is, seated at the right hand of God.

Again, what is Christ seated on at God's right hand?

There's also Hebrews 1:8, 4:16, 8:1 and 12:1. Christs' throne is right now at the right hand of God the Father.

Hi ebedmelech,

That`s fine about not being able to reply straight away. We are travelling in our caravan and don`t always get reception, so we`ll just reply when we can.

Yes, but that is the Father`s throne. Now where in Scripture do we see Christ`s own throne, where He will visibly rule and reign over all.

`To Him who overcomes I will grant to sit with me ON MY THRONE, as I also overcame and sat down with my Father on HIS THRONE.` (Rev. 3: 21)

So we the Body of Christ will not sit on the Father`s throne, as we are not deity, however we will be with the Lord on His own throne. Where and when is that?

regards, Marilyn.

 

[BABerean2]

Seems the devil is still around in rev.

A mean dog on a chain is still around, and can still harm those who come into his territory.

The first part of Revelation 12 is a history lesson containing the fall of Satan and the birth and death of Christ.

Rev 12:1 Now a great sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet, and on her head a garland of twelve stars.
Rev 12:2 Then being with child, she cried out in labor and in pain to give birth.
Rev 12:3 And another sign appeared in heaven: behold, a great, fiery red dragon having seven heads and ten horns, and seven diadems on his heads.
Rev 12:4 His tail drew a third of the stars of heaven and threw them to the earth. And the dragon stood before the woman who was ready to give birth, to devour her Child as soon as it was born.
Rev 12:5 She bore a male Child who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron. And her Child was caught up to God and His throne.
Rev 12:6 Then the woman fled into the wilderness, where she has a place prepared by God, that they should feed her there one thousand two hundred and sixty days.
Rev 12:7 And war broke out in heaven: Michael and his angels fought with the dragon; and the dragon and his angels fought,
Rev 12:8 but they did not prevail, nor was a place found for them in heaven any longer.
Rev 12:9 So the great dragon was cast out, that serpent of old, called the Devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was cast to the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

Do you think Satan is still in heaven today in the presence of God, and Christ, and the souls of our dead Brothers, and Sisters?

Can you bind spirit beings like Satan with a steel chain from the hardware store?

Mar_5:3 who had his dwelling among the tombs; and no one could bind him, not even with chains,
Mar_5:4 because he had often been bound with shackles and chains. And the chains had been pulled apart by him, and the shackles broken in pieces; neither could anyone tame him.

Luk_8:29 For He had commanded the unclean spirit to come out of the man. For it had often seized him, and he was kept under guard, bound with chains and shackles; and he broke the bonds and was driven by the demon into the wilderness.

Or is the binding in Revelation chapter 20 a reference to something else?

Has the Gospel provided the power to bind Satan in your life?

Mat 16:16 Simon Peter answered and said, "You are the Christ, the Son of the living God."
Mat 16:17 Jesus answered and said to him, "Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jonah, for flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but My Father who is in heaven.
Mat 16:18 And I also say to you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build My church, and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it.
Mat 16:19 And I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven."


Do you think the Book of Revelation is in chronological order?

.

 

[DavidPT]

Or is the binding in Revelation chapter 20 a reference to something else?

Has the Gospel provided the power to bind Satan in your life?

Mat 16:16 Simon Peter answered and said, "You are the Christ, the Son of the living God."
Mat 16:17 Jesus answered and said to him, "Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jonah, for flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but My Father who is in heaven.
Mat 16:18 And I also say to you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build My church, and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it.
Mat 16:19 And I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven."

This is nonsensical that this would be applicable to satan's binding. The only ones who are both binding and loosing satan during the thousand years are apparently Amils, such as yourself. Pretty much everyone else would think satan remains bound the entire thousand years, regardless which age that might occur in, and that he is not loosed until the thousand years finish first. There is not one single person on the entire planet who could possibly, at will, fulfill Matthew 16:19 during the thousand years, in regards to satan. During the thousand years, whenever that might be, satan remains bound the entire time. There is no one binding him and loosing him at will throughout the thousand years. That's nonsensical.


Seriously, I don't know why anyone takes Amil serious a lot of times? Amil does have a few good points here and there though, so I'm not throwing the baby out with the bath water just yet. The above wouldn't be one of them.

 

[ebedmelech]

Hi ebedmelech,

That`s fine about not being able to reply straight away. We are travelling in our caravan and don`t always get reception, so we`ll just reply when we can.

Yes, but that is the Father`s throne. Now where in Scripture do we see Christ`s own throne, where He will visibly rule and reign over all.

`To Him who overcomes I will grant to sit with me ON MY THRONE, as I also overcame and sat down with my Father on HIS THRONE.` (Rev. 3: 21)

So we the Body of Christ will not sit on the Father`s throne, as we are not deity, however we will be with the Lord on His own throne. Where and when is that?

regards, Marilyn.

Remember the prayer of Jesus Marilyn? It's in John 17. In verses 1-10 you may find your answer:

Jesus spoke these things; and lifting up His eyes to heaven, He said, “Father, the hour has come; glorify Your Son, that the Son may glorify You,
2 even as You gave Him authority over all flesh, that to all whom You have given Him, He may give eternal life.
3 This is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.
4 I glorified You on the earth, having accomplished the work which You have given Me to do.
5 Now, Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was.
6 “I have manifested Your name to the men whom You gave Me out of the world; they were Yours and You gave them to Me, and they have kept Your word.
7 Now they have come to know that everything You have given Me is from You;
8 for the words which You gave Me I have given to them; and they received them and truly understood that I came forth from You, and they believed that You sent Me.
9 I ask on their behalf; I do not ask on behalf of the world, but of those whom You have given Me; for they are Yours;
10 and all things that are Mine are Yours, and Yours are Mine; and I have been glorified in them.