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Why Jesus did not have pimples

Discussion in 'General Theology' started by Andrew, Oct 2, 2002.

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  1. Blackhawk

    Blackhawk Monkey Boy

    +72
    Eastern Orthodox
    Married
    US-Republican
    Okay then if Jesus perfection is lowered by physical problems then how could Jesus be perfect and get hungry and tired?  These are not sicknesses but they are imperfections of a physical body. 
     
  2. Andrew

    Andrew Well-Known Member

    +21
    Non-Denom
    "Okay then if Jesus perfection is lowered by physical problems then how could Jesus be perfect and get hungry and tired?Ê These are not sicknesses but they are imperfections of a physical body."

    God created Adam with a stomach and the ability to sleep. Otherwise he wldnt have told Adam he could eat from all the trees on earth save one. Nor would he have made the seventh day a rest day. If you want to call these "imperfections" (although God said his creation was all good b4 the fall) then that's up to you.

    But what Quaff and I are ruling out is sickness and disease and an ugly looking Jesus. Such imperfections only came about after the fall of Adam. That's obvious enough right? Or do you think God also made the flu virus and cancer and leprosy and acne bacteria and called it good?

    Also you cant say that Jesus did not inherit the fall in terms of original sin only. ie he was only spirit spotless. becos then it wld mean that there were no consequences to Adam's sin. ie Adam just sinned and that was it, nothing else wld happen to him becos of his sin, like falling sick, etc. obviously there were consequences to his sin, unless you now wanna say that God made Adam but that his original creation of Adam included the ability to fall sick and die (and that's suppose to be a good creation?)-- how can that be when God did not create diseases in the first place?
     
  3. LouisBooth

    LouisBooth Well-Known Member

    +62
    Christian
    Married
    US-Libertarian
    "you are just spiritualising things and basically saying that Jesus was only spirit-spotless. "

    Yup, and he is rightly doing so since that's what the bible says. :)

    If being perfectly healthy is the only way to be in God's will then half the people in the bible who GOD HIMSELF declares righteous and in his will, weren't...so is the bible lying?
     
  4. D-Lyte

    D-Lyte New Member

    56
    +0
    IMHO, I do not consider the physical problems that our Lord deals with to be imperfection.  I see it as the limitation of the body that He is willing to accept for our good.  By becoming a man, He became one of us--someone who need food, rest, and growth.  In order to let us know His love, He allow Himself to sink to our level (yes...that's how much He loves us). 

    For the Creator to become one like the created...that's something unimaginable. Think of it...He can choose the easier way out by coming as a King without any needs...but He chose the hard way for us.


    Regarding the perfection issue, He is perfect.  Through reliance on God, He proves that He can win over the temptations, Satan, and even death. 

    Again, my Lord is merciful...yet righteous.  That is why He is willing to pay the highest price for our sins.  And because of the fact that He has done what He set out to do in the form of a man--He is perfect. :clap:
     
  5. LouisBooth

    LouisBooth Well-Known Member

    +62
    Christian
    Married
    US-Libertarian
    "He is perfect. "

    I totally agree and I also totally agree, he needed food, rest and might have gotten sick. That's all about being in the world but not of it. Good post.
     
  6. JohnR7

    JohnR7 Well-Known Member

    +191
    Pentecostal
    Married
    Jesus had a body made out of clay or dust just as we have. But Jesus had divine blood flowing through His veins. So even if he were to get sick, He had the power to heal that sickness. After all, He was dead for three day and was raised up on the third day.

    The pastor in my church here is 81 years old, and he does not get sick. Now if God can keep a 81 year old man healthy all the time. Then Jesus at 31 could have been healthy all the time. Even when I was in my early 30's it was very rare for me to be sick.

    My father in 50 years I do not remember him ever once taking time off of work for being sick. Once on a Saturday afternoon when he was not working, he said he did not feel good, but he layed down and took a nap for two or three hours and when he got up he said he felt fine.

    But the pastor does not really even get all that much tired, other than needing to sleep for two or three hours every now and then. He just seems to have all the divine strength and health he needs.

    After all, Jesus could pray for others and they would receive healing and health. How much more could Jesus have good health for Himself. Esp. at His age.

    There is a provision under the law for good health. How much more can we have good health under Grace if we do not fall short of the spirit of Grace.

    People who fall short of God's grace, try to compare themselves to people who are walking with God and living Holy, Sanctifed lives. There is just no comparision. Maybe they should consecrate and dedicate themselves to God, so they too can see what divine health and strength is all about.

    If we serve God, what good does sickness accomplish? Nothing at all. So there is no reason for God to allow us to get sick, it would just get in the way of us serving Him and doing His will.

    God receives no glory from people being sick. What glorifies God is for us to always have good health.

    John 5:14 Afterward Jesus findeth him in the temple, and said unto him, Behold, thou art made whole: sin no more, lest a worse thing come unto thee.

    To be "made whole" means to receive divine health. The same divine health that Jesus had. IT stays with you for the rest of your life. Under the law, the only way you could lose it, would be to willfully sin. How much more under grace can we be made whole, and live free from any and all sickness.

    We are just trying to show people what Jesus has made available for us all. If anyone is sick, that is their choice. There is none of us that needs to be sick. Jesus paid the price and made a provision for us to be healthy and walk in divine health.

    For anyone to be sick in this age of grace, would be for them to fall short of receiving all that God has for them to receive. They would not be walking in the fullness of what Jesus provides for us.


     
     
  7. SpiritPsalmist

    SpiritPsalmist Heavy lean toward Messianic Supporter

    +1,394
    United States
    Charismatic
    Single
    Very well said John
     
  8. D-Lyte

    D-Lyte New Member

    56
    +0
    Brother John7,  I agreed with you that good health is great gift from our Father through His grace.  However, I wouldn't see poor health as a lack of His Grace and Blessing.  In the Church of Christ there are many parts(some preacher, paster, prophets, etc).  Which means He has a plan for all of us.  He gave us various blessing to help us fulfill our "parts" in Him.  Just as in the OT where God gave some strength (Samson), some wisdom (Solomon), Creativity (David), so on...and so forth.

    Whatever our gifts are (some are more enticing than others), we are to use it to bring glory back to our Father.  An example of a brother used by our Father is John Dickie (1821-1891).  He serves our Lord in the ministry for many years until his health fail him.  Even while in sickness, he continue to serve our Lord.  He began writing letters to fellow brothers/sisters, poems, and songs.  Through his illness, he has build a much stronger relationship with Him.  Through his poems, letters, and witness, people around him are encouraged and strengthened. 

    No matter what situation we're in, I am positive He can uses us to our highest potential.  Even if we are hindered by sickness or other incapabilities, we need to learn not to concentrate on our situation but remain firm in the belief that God cause all things to work in ways to benefit us who loves Him.  Remember the saying "with God all things are possible."

    Again, being sick doesn't mean we fall short on His grace.  When doubts arises, turn back to His words, His love...His promises.  Maybe God has a different plans for us.  :D
     
  9. Andrew

    Andrew Well-Known Member

    +21
    Non-Denom
    D-Lyte,

    What we're trying to say is this:

    Suppose someone really rich died and left you 1 million dollars, 10 estates and 10 cars. You come to know abt this will, but in your lifetime, you only used up the 1 million dollars to advance the kingdom of God.

    Now, did you serve God faithfully? Yes, you prob did. But it wasnt the 'best' that you cld offer in His service becos you forgot abt the 10 estates and 5 cars, or didnt know how to acquire them through the legal processes.

    So it is the same with the NC where we are joint heirs (not heir-apparent) with Christ. God has done a whole lot more for us than just paying for our sins on the cross. There is a lot more covenant rights that many Christians have yet to discover, let alone appropriate. So one of these covenant rights is healing. It's there alright for every Christian, simply becos its covenantal and as long as you are in covenant with God its yours for the taking.

    Now whether we want to take it or not is up to us. God is not going to force it. It's there but its up to us to take it. Its amazing how many Christians fight for the right to have some of their convenant rights removed! or even if they acknowlege that these rights are part of their covenant, they are simply not interested in them, and just leave them in the 'bank'. Worse still, others tell others its not their rights to have, but only some have these rights.
     
  10. LouisBooth

    LouisBooth Well-Known Member

    +62
    Christian
    Married
    US-Libertarian
    "He had the power to heal that sickness'

    I agree, he could have, but he could have also made bread out of stones, but he didn't do that either :)

    "Now if God can keep a 81 year old man healthy all the time. Then Jesus at 31 could have been healthy all the time"

    Yes, and God could end all suffering right now as well, that doesn't mean he will. He could have been, but he could have also been sick at one time or another.

    "God receives no glory from people being sick. "

    the words of Christ himself disagree with you in John chapter 9 :)

    "If anyone is sick, that is their choice. "

    No, that's where you're wrong, sometimes its God's will for them to be sick.
     
  11. D-Lyte

    D-Lyte New Member

    56
    +0
    Yes, He gives us many other blessings on top of our salvation.  :clap: However, sometimes having poor health does not mean we fall from His grace nor " is up to us."  There are times when He will use poor health or other things we "hate" to teach us, make us better, or simply another form of showing us how much we mean to Him.  His will is not only for us to live a physically healthy life...but one that are close to Him and able to bring glory back to Him.  We cannot say our standard for "best" is the same with His.  Being able to spend one million out of ten may not be the "best" we think, but perhaps...God sees it differently.  For example, most of the original disciples and apostles could've lived much longer and preach to more people.  To us, that may be better.  Bottomline is...God has a specific plan for each and everyone of us.  :)
     
  12. Help-me-learn

    Help-me-learn Member

    143
    +0
    People need to be more concered about letting the love of God flow thru them to others then seeing how many pennies they can pull out of the penny jar with one hand. God is not our cosmic bellhop. He does not say "Oh yes you do have that right, let me get right on it." If we had more reverence for the Lord we would wait on Him not have Him wait on us.

    He knows what we need, make your request known and wait on the Lord.
    Demands are selfish.
     
  13. SpiritPsalmist

    SpiritPsalmist Heavy lean toward Messianic Supporter

    +1,394
    United States
    Charismatic
    Single
    D-Lyte,

    There is a lot of quoting on Rom 8:28, however, nowhere, does that scripture say that God makes bad things happen to some people so that he can work out good things for them.

    Is it impossible for God to teach us things without us getting sick or having something bad happen. If it is not then whose responsibilty is it that I have to be sick or have something bad happen in order to learn a Godly principle? Is is God's?

    We believe it is never God's will for people to be sick. However, when they do, He will use it to work out good things for them. They still can be healed. They still can learn how to fight off the enemy.

    We are not at his (our ememy) mercy. We have the victory over him.

    :bow:
     
  14. SpiritPsalmist

    SpiritPsalmist Heavy lean toward Messianic Supporter

    +1,394
    United States
    Charismatic
    Single
    And I wholeheartedly agree with you.

    We are not making demands on God, we are making demands on our enemy, according to what our God, says. According to the parable of the "evil judge", we have that right. He has/is stealing, from us and has to give it back. He's stealing our families, our minds, our bodies, etc., with sickness, divorce, emotional breakdowns, etc.

    If we are a child of God, he (our enemy) has no right to our belonging, whether they be spiritual or physical. We have the right (according to God)to demand him (our enemy) to give it back.

    That's who we're demanding of. Not God.

    :angel:
     
  15. Ioustinos

    Ioustinos Veteran

    +157
    Eastern Orthodox
    Private
    US-Libertarian
    Quaffer and Andrew,


    Have you not read the Book of Job where God allowed affliction and sickness to come upon Job who was a righteous man? Was Job weak in the faith? Had Job sinned to deserve that kind of treatment? Or was it just a part of God's divine will and sovereignty?


    Ps. This is refering to every christian having divine healing.
     
  16. SpiritPsalmist

    SpiritPsalmist Heavy lean toward Messianic Supporter

    +1,394
    United States
    Charismatic
    Single
    Have you not read all of this thread?  I believe we've addressed Job's situation several times already.  This one and several others.

    Here's one of the spots I've posted regarding Job:http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=218760#post218760

      

     :wave:
     
  17. Ioustinos

    Ioustinos Veteran

    +157
    Eastern Orthodox
    Private
    US-Libertarian
    Quaffer,

    Wow, what a way to take things out of context!! :D

    Let's see, you said the reason for Job's trial was:
    Shall we look at the BEGINNING of the Book to see the real answer to why God allowed Satan to attack Job?

    First let's see how God describes Job:
    Chpt. 1 vs1 blameless, upright, fearing God, turning away from evil

    Ok, in Chpt. 1 vs 7-8 Satan comes before God and God asks Satan if he has considered His servent Job? God then describes Job as stated above. Satan's reply is "Job only serves you because you have put a hedge around him (protection) and blessed him!" So God gives Satan the power to do with Job's possesion as he pleases. The destruction of Job's belongings and children was NOT caused by a lack of knowledge but rather it was GOD showing how faithful Job was!!!!

    The same thing happens in Chpt. 2 vs 1-3. Satan says that Job didn't care that his children and belongings died as long as he survived (vs4). Satan says to God that if He afflicted his body then Job would surely curse God. So God allows Satan to afflict Job's body!!! Again Job's affliction WAS NOT caused by some lack of knowledge but rather because GOD was proving Job's faith!!!!


    Job had done nothing to bring about his afflictions, rather it was God using Job to show what is true faith!!!


    The Book of Job shows that Job was faithful to God yet His struggle was to try and figure out why God was allowing this to happen to him. And Job at Ch 42:3 admits that through all his dialogues with his friends and himself, he couldn't understand the wonderful things and ways of God. We think trials are always a part of judgment, but many times it is the work of God; molding us and fashioning us into the image of Christ. (James 1)


    God Bless :)
     
  18. D-Lyte

    D-Lyte New Member

    56
    +0
    Thank you, that's also what I have in mind :)

     

    I just wanted to add the fact that not only people in the Bible experiences God.  People experiences Him daily.  Other than the Bible, we can check out our B/S witnesses.  One of those examples is the one I mentioned b4.  If anyone interested, check out Selected Writings of John Dickie (Unsearchable Riches). 
     
  19. D-Lyte

    D-Lyte New Member

    56
    +0
    Honestly, I'm not trying to quote it from the Bible.  But since you've brought it up I've went to look at it.  And I can say the "all things" written in it includes the possibility of "bad things."


    I am not saying it is impossible for Him to teach us without using bad things.  I'm saying we're shouldn't put a limit on what He can do.  In our eyes being sick physically is a bad thing.  But the one who sees the whole picture is our Father Himself.  Maybe He has somethings else in mind. 

    I agree.  He do uses bad things (eg: health) to work out good things for us.  And as you say, "They still can be healed"--which I am not denying.  Again, the choice is up to Him.  What we must do is understand and believe what He does is for the best of us.  Afterall, He loves us. :)

    Agree totally:clap:
     
  20. Andrew

    Andrew Well-Known Member

    +21
    Non-Denom
    D-lyte n Jesaiah,

    Even if what you say abt Job is true (which i disagree), you need to come over to the other side of the cross.

    The plain simple fact is that healing is part of the atoning work of Christ. IE CHRIST BORE OUR SINS AS WELL AS OUR PAINS AND SICKNESSES.

    That's what all healing evangelists believe. So, you can quote from the OC till the cows come home and give -ve testimonies of people who are sick/not healed but it doesnt change the fact that Christ already paid for our sicknesses and pains 2000 years ago, just as he paid for our sins. It's a done thing. Period.

    Now whether one can accept that and walk in the light of it is totally up to him.

    As for me and my household, as well as Quaffer, were gonna walk in health and prosperity all the days of our long life.AMEN! :)
     
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