Why is traditional Protestantism so affected by liberal theology?

[Charlie7399]

That's a question I keep asking myself. Even though this happens mostly in the developed world, I can't help but feel a bit awkward about it.

One can argue that the RCC doesn't fall in the same trap because it's a worldwide organisation, with a bigger conservative population. The liberal attitude of a good part of their Western European and North American clergy makes me think they wouldn't be any different if they were geographically limited like the Protestants are.

What about the less traditional Protestants though, like the Baptists and the Pentecostals? Why aren't they affected by liberalism like the Lutherans or the Anglicans? The only traditional denomination that seems to get away with this (sort of) are the Methodists. I know that you can find a conservative, traditional Protestant church even in places where the larger churches are liberal, but I still wonder about it. What do you guys think?

 

[Charlie7399]

Thinking about it a bit more, perhaps some of the blame could be given to the "estabilished" character of traditional Protestant churches, particularly in Europe. In most countries these churches were very connected to the State (as some still are), and this overlap between politics and religion probably is to blame (even if just partially) for what's going on now. Still would like to hear your opinions, though.

 

[Resha Caner]

I'm not sure there is one single reason. There are probably many reasons.

If you try to boil it down to one reason, you'll probably get something that has little meaning. For example: the answer is sin.

 

[Charlie7399]

I'm not sure there is one single reason. There are probably many reasons.

If you try to boil it down to one reason, you'll probably get something that has little meaning. For example: the answer is sin.

I suppose so. I think it's interesting to look into it, though. Even if we can't get the whole picture, at least we might understand some of it.

 

[St_Worm2]

The Presbyterian denomination I used to be part of turned aside from the Westminster Confession of Faith and from the idea that the Bible is inerrant/infallible many, many years ago, but I think that should probably be regarded as a symptom of the move toward liberal thinking rather than the cause of it. However, I am also certain that holding both the Bible and the Confession in lower esteem than they once were has been a big help to those who have pushed the liberal agenda for years to finally open the floodgates to the torrent of liberal ideas that have now come to define the denomination.

The liberal ideas put forth while I was still a part of the denomination were unquestionably byproducts of the secular world, the attempt then made by these same people to either bend the word of God to fit the secular/non-Biblical norm, or to simply deny the word of God altogether as being outdated (or something along those lines). All of this would, of course, be impossible with the Westminster Confession as the norm and the inerrant/infallible Bible in place as the regula fidei.

I hope you guys don't mind me joining in the conversation. I'm not Lutheran, but I am interested in how/why so many of our older Protestant churches have been able to move in this direction.

Yours and His,
David

 

[Charlie7399]

The Presbyterian denomination I used to be part of turned aside from the Westminster Confession of Faith and from the idea that the Bible is inerrant/infallible many, many years ago, but I think that should probably be regarded as a symptom of the move toward liberal thinking rather than the cause of it. However, I am also certain that holding both the Bible and the Confession in lower esteem than they once were has been a big help to those who have pushed the liberal agenda for years to finally open the floodgates to the torrent of liberal ideas that have now come to define the denomination.

The liberal ideas put forth while I was a still part of the denomination were unquestionably byproducts of the secular world, the attempt then made by these same people to either bend the word of God to fit the secular/non-Biblical norm, or to simply deny the word of God altogether as being outdated (or something along those lines). All of this would, of course, be impossible with the Westminster Confession as the norm and the inerrant/infallible Bible in place as the regula fidei.

I hope you guys don't mind me joining in the conversation. I'm not Lutheran, but I am interested in how/why so many of our older Protestant churches have been able to move in this direction.

Yours and His,
David

There's no problem with people from other denominations joining our discussions, as long as it is in fellowship. I'm actually quite happy we can have views from different people here.

Trying to fit to the secular world is really the biggest problem with all of this. I guess you can point to many factors working together here: first, you have a significant decline of religion and faith in these countries, which in my opinion is caused by economic development. This might sound a bit strange, but I believe there is a correlation here. When people start believing they're self-sufficient, why believe in God?

Then you have, as I said, the "estabilished" nature of many traditional churches. In a country with a State church (like Denmark, for example), it seems that religion is treated more like some civic duty rather than anything dealing with faith. This same trend in places without a State church can be somewhat explained by influence from these older, European churches. I'm sure there's more to it, but that's all I've got until now.

So you have both a rise in secularism (mostly limited to Western Europe and the US, though) and an inclination to see religion in a distorted manner. At that point it doesn't really matter how orthodox the doctrines are: in a situation like this, any church would probably fall to liberalism. Which is a real shame.

 

[Resha Caner]

I suppose so. I think it's interesting to look into it, though. Even if we can't get the whole picture, at least we might understand some of it.

Sure. If you want my opinion, the wealth of the West has created 2 things: 1) a certain laziness - an unwillingness to be rigorous, and 2) boredom with the status quo - a desire for something "new".

 

[MarkRohfrietsch]

The Presbyterian denomination I used to be part of turned aside from the Westminster Confession of Faith and from the idea that the Bible is inerrant/infallible many, many years ago, but I think that should probably be regarded as a symptom of the move toward liberal thinking rather than the cause of it. However, I am also certain that holding both the Bible and the Confession in lower esteem than they once were has been a big help to those who have pushed the liberal agenda for years to finally open the floodgates to the torrent of liberal ideas that have now come to define the denomination.

The liberal ideas put forth while I was a still part of the denomination were unquestionably byproducts of the secular world, the attempt then made by these same people to either bend the word of God to fit the secular/non-Biblical norm, or to simply deny the word of God altogether as being outdated (or something along those lines). All of this would, of course, be impossible with the Westminster Confession as the norm and the inerrant/infallible Bible in place as the regula fidei.

I hope you guys don't mind me joining in the conversation. I'm not Lutheran, but I am interested in how/why so many of our older Protestant churches have been able to move in this direction.

Yours and His,
David

Welcome to the conversation, and we welcome your perspectives too!

 

[Job8]

There's no problem with people from other denominations joining our discussions, as long as it is in fellowship. I'm actually quite happy we can have views from different people here.

Since you have stated this, I will answer the question in the title. Why? Because theological liberalism was not resisted strongly enough when it began to infect all the seminaries since the 18th and 19th centuries. It began with German theologians, it included Higher Criticism, and it entered into the British and American mainline denominations insidiously. Those who were trained in these seminaries carried the virus of liberalism with them to the pulpits, and thus it continued to be perpetuated. The so-called *assured* results of modern biblical scholarship were altogether a sham, but not many stood against this deception. Instead "The Bible is full of errors" became Gospel truth. Thus the worship of scholarship replaced worship in Spirit and in truth.

The Fundamentalist Movement in the 20th century was a reaction to theological liberalism, but the end result was that those who were responsible for holding fast to the faith once delivered to the saints chose to succumb to the seduction of liberalism. Essentially it was a rejection of the inspiration,inerrancy, infallibility and authority of Scripture. Therefore the Fundamentalists departed, and the liberals took control.

But if those who were members of these churches and denominations had left en masse in disgust, it would have been the end of liberalism. Instead, we find that those who were once Fundamentalists and Evangelicals have become more and more liberal, and the Emergent Church Movement is accelerating the downgrade.

 

[Super Hotdog Salesman]

One factor in this discussion has surely been the polemic nature of Liberal/Conservative rhetoric in the west. As Job8's comments show from the conservative side, Fundamentalists essentially jumped ship and ceased the conversation a long time ago. Liberalism and a bunch of modern Biblical scholarship were seen as a "virus," and like some sort of conspiracy against the truth by many. So the Fundamentalists schism'd away and the conversation ended. That left the less schismatic and Fundamentalist majority with little to no conservative voice, pushing them toward the opposite extreme. As has been pointed out above by Charlie, the RCC hasn't undergone such a split, so what we see there instead is an ongoing conversation that tries to appreciate what both conservative and liberal voices have to say. And both sides DO have some valuable things to say.

There are certainly other factors, but the schismatic attitude of Fundamentalism has played a part.

 

[grandvizier1006]

I know this might offend people, but honestly? I blame Luther. This is what you get when you have the "priesthood of all believers" stuff. You have people that just skim the Bible and make up doctrines as they go along, or people who insert all of their mental problems into every verse. Now, comservatives (and I) are guilty of this as well, but the best thing to do is not make up a denomination from it.

 

[NursingNinja]

To answer the OP, I think this actually impacts everyone. Even in Roman Catholicism liberalism is very pervasive in their theology. It is just hidden behind the veil of traditions that have not changed.

Liberalism is the Orthodox Cult. It is a very sad and pervasive one. I can only think that it is God's will for this to be in our day and age. The good news is that I don't see it lasting.

In times past there were social constraints compelling people to go to church. Today that is gone. As the culture moves further and further into a pagan worldview it will flip entirely, and I predict the social constraints will be against going to church rather than just neutral.

Without conviction and belief in things like objective truth I just don't see how any body of believers will persist. And this is the kind of conviction that comes from the Word, through faith in Christ. I don't think liberals will be able to sustain that on a corporate level.

I would predict that Christianity will look very different on the whole in a few decades. But we shall see, perhaps I am way off the mark.

 

[Nova Scotian Boy]

What about the less traditional Protestants though, like the Baptists and the Pentecostals? Why aren't they affected by liberalism like the Lutherans or the Anglicans?

I would say that this is not the case. I've known my fair share of liberal baptists. I think they just get away with it more because they use still all the evangelical buzzwords. There are also those who argue that Evangelicalism has become the new Liberalism.

 

[twin.spin]

If one were to sum up Liberal theology, simply it is Acts 20:30.

 

[Babe Ruth]

The liberal ideas put forth while I was still a part of the denomination were unquestionably byproducts of the secular world, the attempt then made by these same people to either bend the word of God to fit the secular/non-Biblical norm,..being outdated..
David

David, I believe this is the core of it.. As traditional Protestant sects (unfortunately) lose members & influence, their position of cultural weakness makes them susceptible to outside (corrosive) secular ideas.

When the Church(es) are strong, they provide a bulwark against corrosive ideas. The analogy I'd use, is a sick or aging body.. when that happens a body becomes more susceptible to external attacks, infections, etc. Just my take..

Question now, how to reverse (or stabilize) the decline of confident Western Protestantism..

 

[FaithfulPilgrim]

I'm not sure there is one single reason. There are probably many reasons.

If you try to boil it down to one reason, you'll probably get something that has little meaning. For example: the answer is sin.

Pretty much. Someone said that established churches the to be more liberal, which I think is generally true. I would say churches with a higher regard for the Bible are less likely to become liberal, and I don’t think polity has much to do with it.

Churches practicing a congregational structure do tend to be more conservative, or so it seems, but even they have the United Church of Christ or fall into different errors like the Prosperity Gospel.

I think that whatever you blame for the decline, other than sin, you can easily find a counter-example.

 

[Athanasius377]

I am sure there are other reasons but one I think of the most is the abandonment of confessional statements. For example, I have seen posts from a professed Lutheran who sounds more like Jack Spong than Martin Luther. He considers the Book of Concord akin to a museum piece. Scripture is no more important to him than are stereo instructions. Once you get the gist, file it away. Once a denomination or individual christian abandon scripture, their (church's) confessions, and allows the world to frame the worldview the slide into liberalism is inevitable. From there the slide into collapse is all but certain. Just look at the Episcopal church average sunday attendance and average age and realize their collapse is imminent.

 

[MarkRohfrietsch]

I am sure there are other reasons but one I think of the most is the abandonment of confessional statements. For example, I have seen posts from a professed Lutheran who sounds more like Jack Spong than Martin Luther. He considers the Book of Concord akin to a museum piece. Scripture is no more important to him than are stereo instructions. Once you get the gist, file it away. Once a denomination or individual christian abandon scripture, their (church's) confessions, and allows the world to frame the worldview the slide into liberalism is inevitable. From there the slide into collapse is all but certain. Just look at the Episcopal church average sunday attendance and average age and realize their collapse is imminent.

...And in the confessional Synods, many congregations are reluctant to admonish those who stray from the confessions. Big problem.

 

[Athanasius377]

...And in the confessional Synods, many congregations are reluctant to admonish those who stray from the confessions. Big problem.

Very true brother.

 

[hedrick]

sorry, wrong forum