Why is there a secular music part to a Christian site?

[Sign Of The Fish Burger]

ok I read through the first like 6 pages and only got riled up.
Im not even touching the U2 stuff.... they are one of my fav bands and Im just not going there. (Talk about beating a dead horse)

Anyways from what I read (and this could have been covered already) but the "rock and roll lifestyle" keeps appearing. That you cant be a christian and live the Rock and Roll lifestyle.

Now let me add in my 0.02$. I just finished readin Kevin Max (from DC Talk) autobiography. Or whatever you would call it. Anyways wanna talk about a band who was living the rock and roll lifestyle. Um hello!!!!!! DC Talk was like the biggest band in christian music at one point. And they CERTAINLY LIVED THE ROCK AND ROLL LIFESTYLE. For goodness sakes some of their members wernt living as christians at all.
They had their share of groupies.
Read the book. Opened my eyes.

Sorry if this has already been covered. But I wasnt going to read 12 pages of ridiculousness

 

[ghost_on_fire]

this thread is stupid
ttyl, peace

 

[EliasEmmanuel]

Okay, just to weigh in.....

First and foremost, PreacherFergy.... how do you define "Secular"? See, I listen to

a) Christian music, produced by Christians on Christian record labels
b) Music produced by Christians on non-Christian record labels
c) Music produced by people who are not (to my knowledge) Christians, on non-Christian record labels.

So what is the criteria for "secular" here? The intent of the musician, the label that produces their work, what I glean from said work in my own mind...?

From a scriptural standpoint.... it's pretty much eisogetical to take verses that reference "singing to the Lord" as commands about the exact kind and content of music Christians are allowed to make. Doing so clearly departs from the meaning of the text.This is further complicated by the fact that music as it is today did not exist in Paul and Jesus' time.

Now, I'm just going to second something someone else said: I don't believe in secular. I firmly believe that the "secular vs. Christian" divide is a construct of humans and nothing more. Scripture never teaches that Christians are to be "seperated"by not doing anything Pagans or nonchristians do. To be sure, there are things nonChristians do that we shouldn't. Lots in fact. But these are not matters of culture, they are matters of character.

The idea that we're to be "seperated from the World" by avoiding things non-Christians do and enjoy is nothing but a smokescreen set up by "religious people". Scripture teaches that our "seperation" comes by avoiding the values of the world, in favor of the values of God in Christ: not returning evil for evil, non-materialism, forvivness rather than revenge, compassion rather than selfishness, dependence on God rather than man for our honor and prestige, rejecting the "greatness" of worldly prestige for the greatness of servanthood, living by the Spirit rather than carnal passion. That will set a person apart very noticably and very effectively, allowing one to be effective for God in the World(spiritually and temporally) without being of the World.

The sad thing is, it's easier to say that being "set apart" is a matter of hard and fast touch-not taste-not-look-not rules (no rock and roll, no "looking worldly", which usually amounts to the idea that "business casual" is sanctified by God, etc.). And what makes this sad is that it allows one to look very "spiritual" without actually having any bearing on one's character and connection to God, and quite often bleeds over into arrogance and pride. It's a false human seperation, rather than a true Godly seperation. Whereas true Godly seperation breeds respect (albeit sometimes mixed with confusion) from unbelievers, honor for God and growth of the kingdom, false seperation often breeds only suspicion, alienation , self-righteousness and isolated stagnation.

Now that said.... everyone's different. As per Romans 14, if "secular" music causes one problems, then by all means that person should avoid it. As the chapter says, the one who abstains must not look down on the one who partakes, and the one who partakes must not look down on the one who abstains.

So, I'll hop down off my soapbox now.... my point is, to the Sanctified all things are sanctified. Real righteousness and sanctification is preferable to a cultural/legalistic substitute any day.

 

[seebs]

It always seemed to me like an attempt to reinvent the holiness code, as though the problem with the Jewish holiness code weren't the fundamental impossibility of any set of rituals creating righteousness, but merely that they didn't have the right rituals.

 

[EliasEmmanuel]

It always seemed to me like an attempt to reinvent the holiness code, as though the problem with the Jewish holiness code weren't the fundamental impossibility of any set of rituals creating righteousness, but merely that they didn't have the right rituals.

S'not far off, IMO.....

I heard a sermon on Galatians once that made an interesting point. In Galatians Paul gets pretty ticked over the Judaizers, all that talk about "I wish these mutilators would just emasculate themselves" etc.... well, if God (through Paul in this case) gets that upset about people observing laws that HE laid down and staking their Salvation/righteousness on that, how much more angry d'you think he gets when we stake the same thing on rules WE come up with?

I think Jesus' strong words to the Pharasees offer a pretty clear answer...... anyway, just thought it was an interesting point, one I hadn't thought about at the time.

 

[SrferJosh180]

the secular music on a christian site is there for all of the christians who have just joined the order and are still into the satanic/secular music.....

 

[Echoes Peak]

ok I read through the first like 6 pages and only got riled up.
Im not even touching the U2 stuff.... they are one of my fav bands and Im just not going there. (Talk about beating a dead horse)

I read up to page 5 so you've got me beat

I'm not touching the U2 debate either just because there are more than enough people on that. However, my question is for those who are in not in favor of Christians listening to "secular" music..does it mean it's necessarily wrong for a Christian artist to cover a "mainstream" or "secular song" as well? Because as I read this thread, I'm listening to Nichole Nordeman's cover of Peter Gabriel's In Your Eyes, and if I hadn't heard that song years ago, I would have most certainly thought it was a "Christian" song. I guess to me, not every song by a supposed Christian artist has "Christian value" and not every song by a non-Christian artist can be dismissed as lacking that value.

 

[Sign Of The Fish Burger]

I read up to page 5 so you've got me beat

I'm not touching the U2 debate either just because there are more than enough people on that. However, my question is for those who are in not in favor of Christians listening to "secular" music..does it mean it's necessarily wrong for a Christian artist to cover a "mainstream" or "secular song" as well? Because as I read this thread, I'm listening to Nichole Nordeman's cover of Peter Gabriel's In Your Eyes, and if I hadn't heard that song years ago, I would have most certainly thought it was a "Christian" song. I guess to me, not every song by a supposed Christian artist has "Christian value" and not every song by a non-Christian artist can be dismissed as lacking that value.

Great point. Ive heared lots of christian artist cover secular songs.
Even right now there is a christian artists, on the christian radiostaion covering a U2 song.
Anyways this debate is stupid. I think it c omes down to personal conviction IMHO

 

[call-me-dan]

Where did a Pharisee ever question the "salvation" of someone???

Several people in this thread just parrot some false teachings floating around our day. You have no scriptural background for your beliefs, so you just decide to employ ad hominem attacks (Pharisee, jerk, self-righteous, etc.)

Matthew 12
23All the people were astonished and said, "Could this be the Son of David?"
24But when the Pharisees heard this, they said, "It is only by Beelzebub,[1] the prince of demons, that this fellow drives out demons."
25Jesus knew their thoughts and said to them, "Every kingdom divided against itself will be ruined, and every city or household divided against itself will not stand.

hmm, they even questioned Jesus


look, i listen to secular music because it is original and it is real expresion of the human heart. alot of times when i listen to Chritian music, especially that which is not directed to God Himself, it feels like the artist is trying to make themselves something they are not.

and my answer to the topic question is this: God created man and man was created with the ability to make music to glorify God. Even when the lyrics the artists put arent "good", their music is still praising God because without Him they wouldnt be able to do it anyway.

As i see it, God created truth, and He created the world with truth in it. He also created man with the ability to find and know truth. Just because someone is not a Christian does not mean that they will not be able to recognize truth when they see it and then convert it into a song.

Because God creatred the world the world contains truth; because man inhabits it, it has darkness. But that also means that man can know truth (not all of it though) without knowing God.

 

[ghost_on_fire]

SO, Why is there a secular part to this site? has anyone answered this?

 

[blackwasp]

SO, Why is there a secular part to this site? has anyone answered this?

Because some christians (myself included) have a passion for music and feel that certain secular artists have been able to fuel that desire and thus provide inspiration that christian artists have avoided. As a whole, christian musicians have hid behind the bubble of the contemporary christian music scene.

To put unbiblical restrictions on other christians is nothing short of legalism.

 

[Caedmon]

lol.

you know that I was listening to Judas Priest the night I accepted Jesus into my heart?

A week or so ago, I meditated on the passion of Christ while in my car listening to "Dirty" by KoRn. I wept.

 

[nadroj1985]

A week or so ago, I meditated on the passion of Christ while in my car listening to "Dirty" by KoRn. I wept.

No you didn't. This is impossible. Secular music is evil and should be avoided at all costs. I pray that you will realize this and stop listening to it because it is obviously a sin and you just won't admit it because you want to keep listening to it. EVIL!!!!!

 

[EliasEmmanuel]

Because some christians (myself included) have a passion for music and feel that certain secular artists have been able to fuel that desire and thus provide inspiration that christian artists have avoided. As a whole, christian musicians have hid behind the bubble of the contemporary christian music scene.

To put unbiblical restrictions on other christians is nothing short of legalism.

Good answer.

Why is it this is a restriction that most only place on music? Why aren't there organized groups fighting having to read "secular" book in high school english classes, or saying one should only watch "Christian" programming or see "Christian" plays........?

 

[blackwasp]

Good answer.

Why is it this is a restriction that most only place on music? Why aren't there organized groups fighting having to read "secular" book in high school english classes, or saying one should only watch "Christian" programming or see "Christian" plays........?

Very true...and what a lovely Spurgy quote!

 

[Grover143]

Preacher, if you're still paying any attention to this site, have you given up the discussion?

 

[blackwasp]

Wow, I was just reading over the first page and would like to rekindle the coals. Could someone (Axver) give me a statement from U2 of their exact spiritual stance, I have not actually heard it. I personally have always considered them a secular band with a form of spirituality.

 

[brettnolan]

Wow, I was just reading over the first page and would like to rekindle the coals. Could someone (Axver) give me a statement from U2 of their exact spiritual stance, I have not actually heard it. I personally have always considered them a secular band with a form of spirituality.

I'm the same bw. I never really thought of U2 as spiritual at all. But now that Axver has opened my eyes, I can see more spirituality in their music.

This lends itself nicely to some of the points made earlier in this thread...it all depends on from which angle you are viewing it. I never thought of "In Your Eyes" (Peter Gabriel) as a spiritual song either until I found it on a Nicole Nordeman disc.

 

[PreacherFergy]

I just stopped by for a few moments and read a couple of new posts. I've been quite busy, so I haven't visited this site much, actually. I'm trying to get a new engine back together for my car before school starts back, and my daily driver's transmission is going south, so I've been busy turning wrenches while not at work or church (we've had revival this week).

Didn't pay attention to who posted it, but someone said they meditated while listening to Korn? That's nothing but pure emotionalism and isn't scriptural.

Your emotions don't control God's Word. If it's wrong, it's wrong, no matter how emotional you feel.

For those of you who continue to denouce me as a modern day Pharisee, I wish you'd read your Bible and realize who the Pharisees were, and why Jesus denounced them (Matthew 23 would be a good place to start).

 

[brettnolan]

Welcome back Preacher!

We know who the Pharisees were, but that is irrelevant because Jesus did not condemn them becuase of WHO they were but HOW they were. Jesus condemmed them because of their legalism and hypocrisy, no?

Luke 11:
37 Now when He had spoken, a Pharisee asked Him to have lunch with him; and He went in, and reclined at the table. 38 When the Pharisee saw it, he was surprised that He had not first ceremonially washed before the meal. 39 But the Lord said to him, "Now you Pharisees clean the outside of the cup and of the platter; but inside of you, you are full of robbery and wickedness. 40 "You foolish ones, did not He who made the outside make the inside also? 41 "But give that which is within as charity, and then all things are clean for you. 42 "But woe to you Pharisees! For you pay tithe of mint and rue and every kind of garden herb, and yet disregard justice and the love of God; but these are the things you should have done without neglecting the others.