Why is there a secular music part to a Christian site?

[PreacherFergy]

I'm wasting my time apparently.

I never said I liked Petra, by the way.

 

[ASU Belle]

Not to be jumping on the bandwagon of this or anything, but I have to say if "listening to secular music is wrong" there are a LOT of churches which are going to be in the deep end. If you ever listen to organ prelude music at the beginning of a service, many of the works played are those of Charles-Marie Widor, Cesar Franck, among others, which are the least involved with sacred music. The works contain nothing in relation to a sacred melody, tune, lyrics, or anything of the sort. Are you trying to say that all the congregation members listening to this 'secular music' are going to be contemned for doing so? What is 'drawing the line?'

 

[BigToe]

oooh or people who play "here comes the bride" at their wedding?

 

[brettnolan]

I'm wasting my time apparently.

I never said I liked Petra, by the way.

well that kinda sucks

I mean, if I'm doing something wrong and need to ask forgiveness for it, then I'd like to know. (And I'm not being facetious this time)

 

[Axver]

This is an old point, but I've been busy lately. Sorry folks.

Also, regarding U2. If you live in the USA and you're proud of your country, I have no idea how you can still listen to them. I suggest you pop in one of your "Christian" CDs and listen to "Bullet the Blue Sky"

Your argument makes no sense. Are all bands - even those NOT from America - supposed to support every action the USA makes? Bullet The Blue Sky is a criticism of America's actions in Central America during the 1980s, which any person not blinded by patriotism would know were msiguided and foolish. Furthermore, plenty of Americans adore this song - I know one very patriotic American who reckons this is the best song ever - and know what it means, so your argument is completely errant.

Plus, the song has evolved into a political statement that can be used to suit many situations - in 2001, it was a raging attack on violence, globalisation, and a lack of gun control. Absolutely awesome live, by the way.

Really, PreacherFergy, you're very way off and it seems you're not open to opposing opinions or the facts. To condemn some bands as non-Christian despite what they and their lyrics say is offensive and derogatory (to both the band members themselves and the fans), and to claim the Bible says secular music is wrong has no basis in fact at all. Nowhere does the Bible mention that non-Christian music is wrong, and if you say it does, then how can you justify instrumental music? Where do you draw the line between Christian and secular? What about a bunch of atheists singing a Christian song or a bunch of Christians singing an atheistic song? Instrumental noises and verbal utterings are inherently morally neutral, neither sinful nor the oppsite.

 

[Grover143]

Here's a thought for your noodle...

I don't accept that there is even SUCH a thing as "secular" music. Music is music. It is art and it is a window into the thoughts & hearts of those who make it. ALL things were created by God, and God gave us the ability to praise him in what we do, or to praise ourselves. But either way, God made us and our ability to make music.

Is anyone in here aware that the notion of anything "secular" was a concept put forth by Plato. Plato being a person (Greek if I remember correctly) who was neither Jewish or Christian. He was the first person to put forth the notion that there was a separation between spiritual and non-spiritual things. I believe this is a fallacy and a major stumbling block to people everywhere. Spirituality permeates EVERYTHING we say and think and do. The forces of good and evil are constantly vying for power all around us every day. To think for one second that there is something you do or think or listen to that does not in some way relate to God is to deny that he created all these things in the first place.

That being said, we must all work out our salvation with "fear & trembling" so to speak. If you feel "brought down" spiritually by listening to music that doesn't say flat out "praise god" or "holy is his name" or has some sort of christian "catch-phrase" in it, then by all means stick with that. I do wonder, however, that if anyone is easily troubled in their spirit by music that does not have these elements, if perhaps they aren't hindered in their appreciation of the simple goodness of music as a creation of God.

So to wrap up, I'd say that it's dangerous business to rely on a greek philosopher to dictate the terms at which we interpret our faith. Wouldn't THAT be conforming to the teachings of the WORLD?

 

[* kittie *]

*cough* I was going to stay out of this, but what Grover143 said was insightful.

People, you all need to just stop fighting...

 

[brettnolan]

Here's a thought for your noodle...

I don't accept that there is even SUCH a thing as "secular" music. Music is music. It is art and it is a window into the thoughts & hearts of those who make it.

I'm gonna play Preacher's advocate for a moment...There IS music that CAN be harmful for Christians to listen to. As you said, it is "a window into our thoughts and hearts." It CAN be influential. As has been argued elsewhere, music can be used as a good tool to BRING people to Christ. If that's true, and I contend that it is, then it can also be used to LEAD PEOPLE AWAY. Further, it may not do either. The question is, is your window open or closed? We are to guard our hearts. If your window is stuck open, you probably shouldn't listen to music that is not about God. Is it sinful if you do? I have yet to be convinced that it is, but if it leads you away from God, it's obviously not beneficial.

There are at least two issues:
One, who defines what is secular and what is not? What are the criteria?
Two, even if the first issue can be resolved, where is the biblical restriction against listening to it?

These issues answer the question, why is there a secular music part to a Christian site? I personally think this is a great topic for this forum...much better than "Who likes So and so?" The problem is, Preacher, so far, is the only one to attempt to present the other side.

 

[nadroj1985]

I'm gonna play Preacher's advocate for a moment...There IS music that CAN be harmful for Christians to listen to. As you said, it is "a window into our thoughts and hearts." It CAN be influential. As has been argued elsewhere, music can be used as a good tool to BRING people to Christ. If that's true, and I contend that it is, then it can also be used to LEAD PEOPLE AWAY. Further, it may not do either. The question is, is your window open or closed? We are to guard our hearts. If your window is stuck open, you probably shouldn't listen to music that is not about God. Is it sinful if you do? I have yet to be convinced that it is, but if it leads you away from God, it's obviously not beneficial.

There are at least two issues:
One, who defines what is secular and what is not? What are the criteria?
Two, even if the first issue can be resolved, where is the biblical restriction against listening to it?

These issues answer the question, why is there a secular music part to a Christian site? I personally think this is a great topic for this forum...much better than "Who likes So and so?" The problem is, Preacher, so far, is the only one to attempt to present the other side.

I think you might be missing Grover's point. He didn't say that music can't be harmful, he said that it cannot be secular. He acknowledged in his post that if you find music that is harmful to you then you should stay away from it. If you want to define secular as harmful, then that is another matter, but that is generally not the definition given for secular. What he is saying (I think, hope I'm not putting words in your mouth Grover) is that what is "secular" for some people might not be for others. I know exactly what he means. There is some music that I listen to that most would acknowledge as secular that has given me a greater awareness of and appreciation for God. Therefore, if you tell me that that music is not "about God," I would be inclined to disagree. For you it may not be, but for me it is. Therefore, for me, it is not "secular." Therein lies the difficulty of this subject. If different people see different music as secular, there can be no "definition" of secular music; thus any attempt to say that listening to secular music is a sin is futile. By condemning secular music, we miss the point. The point is to glorify God in what we do. If music, "Christian" or "secular," helps us to do this, there is absolutely nothing wrong with it. If music, "Christian" or "secular," prohibits us from doing this, then there is something very wrong with it.

Oh, and Brett I agree with you that this is a good thread, but don't knock the "Who Likes So-and-So" threads. We can have fun every now and then, right?

 

[brettnolan]

I agree with all that.

 

[nadroj1985]

Good, I'm glad we can agree on this...I believe it pretty strongly. I would like to know what the Pastor thinks about it though.......

 

[Grover143]

I'd like to hear his take too.

 

[xtxArchxAngelxtx]

Music is music... the only thing that matters is in the intent on the heart.

Secular music has good intentions, but obviously that don't make them saved, but just because they are not saved, does that mean they will always have a negative affect on us as christians? Once saved, we are to live "good" lives.... good moral music is fine whether it's christian or not. Granted it would better for us as christians to listen to music by christians, but honestly, some of these christians bands have just as many dark secrets as what non christiand bands and groups do.... but who are we to judge, right?

 

[ghost_on_fire]

if we are all christians here, then are we fighting with one another? Let me put it this way.....if we are all of one body and the guy who started this thread is the chest and I am the hand then why would I, the hand, make a fist and punch my own chest? Wouldn't I also fell the pain? Not only that, Jesus Christ would also feel it because he is the head of the body. Get it? and I would like to say, what if a famous secular artist came to this thread, saw what we all had said, and broadcasted it all over over TV, the internet, etc? If that happened would you want to take back anything you had said on this thread?

 

[minus]

Also, regarding U2. If you live in the USA and you're proud of your country, I have no idea how you can still listen to them. I suggest you pop in one of your "Christian" CDs and listen to "Bullet the Blue Sky"

Uhm, so I shouldn't be listening to music or musicians who question the state of our nation? So we should all just sit back and listen to the national anthem and salute the flag as Dubya trashes our enviornment and lies about reasons for invading another nation. Is this what your trying to tell us or did i just misunderstand you?

 

[minus]

Sorry but I see nothing wrong with listening to secular music as long as they aren't speaking out against God. Unfortunatley I have yet to find any Christian music that appeals to me, so I'm just going to keep on listening to my secular music. My secular music doesn't cause me to sin or tempt me to sin I don't listen to it and start think of how much I'd like to go out and sin against God so therefore I see nothing wrong with listening to it.

 

[brettnolan]

what if a famous secular artist came to this thread, saw what we all had said, and broadcasted it all over over TV, the internet, etc? If that happened would you want to take back anything you had said on this thread?

Nope.

 

[msjones21]

David Cloud, Fundamental Baptist Information Service

I stopped reading when I got to that part. These are the same people who claim if you read the NIV translation of the Bible you're going to hell.

 

[nadroj1985]

if we are all christians here, then are we fighting with one another? Let me put it this way.....if we are all of one body and the guy who started this thread is the chest and I am the hand then why would I, the hand, make a fist and punch my own chest? Wouldn't I also fell the pain? Not only that, Jesus Christ would also feel it because he is the head of the body. Get it? and I would like to say, what if a famous secular artist came to this thread, saw what we all had said, and broadcasted it all over over TV, the internet, etc? If that happened would you want to take back anything you had said on this thread?

Nope, I sure wouldn't. Preacher simply gave his thoughts on the secular music issue, and some others including me have given opposing viewpoints. And I personally think we have made some interesting and helpful conclusions. I'd say the debate was fairly productive. We aren't attacking each other (or at least I'm not trying to); we're working together to try to find an answer to a question. What's wrong with that?

 

[twosteppin]

I stopped reading when I got to that part. These are the same people who claim if you read the NIV translation of the Bible you're going to hell.

I dont think they ever said anything about going to hell if you read any Bible version other than the AKJV. They said that some of the translations were not accurate, and in todays world, where scripture is so often taken out of context, they think that the new translations were changed to fit what the people want and not the true word of God.

I dont really know much about that. but interesting none the less.

ok back to the orignal topic now.....tehehe.......