Why is there a secular music part to a Christian site?

[PreacherFergy]

Is this for non-believers or something?

The Bible teaches Christians shouldn't listen to secular music which doesn't bring glory to God.

Now, an unbeliever, I understand them listening to secular music, but a Christian has no excuse to be listening to the music. It promotes an apathetic and flippant lifestyle toward Christian things.

Can we discuss this?

 

[Neenie]

Well well! What do we have here? The Christian police?

Show me where in the Bible it say's listening to secular Music is evil?
I think it's OK as long as it isn't offensive, there are Christians out there who are in secular bands like U2, POD, lifehouse and a few others. I see nothing wrong with discussing secular music.

 

[TheThinman]

While the vast majority of the music I listen to is Christian, there is a small percentage of secular bands in my collection.
Please explain where in the bible it says I am wrong.

 

[Mistyfogg]

Well, I guess I have an apathetic and flippent lifestyle. This is a first for someone telling me that I cannot listen to secular music. Lighten up. I would like to think that all children of God would not be uptight and judgemental but I guess I can't have it my way

 

[Shangrila]

Secular music is awsome.

^^^Yep, a pointless post

 

[Axver]

I think some people have an eleventh commandment written into their Bibles, "thou shalt not listen to secular music; instead thou shalt delude thyself into thinking Christian music is actually good."

Bah. Secular and Christian secular music flogs your normal Christian music any day for creativity and originality. Most contemporary Christian bands are almost impossible to tell apart or simply asinine. I won't listen to that drivel.

 

[redjosh]

hear, hear.
i love listening to talented musos playing their tunes.

this forum is for anyone who wants to talk about secular music. its the same reason we have one for movies, sport and politics...
what do they have to do with bringing glory to God?


you wanna discuss?
heres my verse: all things are lawful for me, but not all all things are beneficial...
wheres yours?

kia kaha, peace

 

[* kittie *]

I think some people have an eleventh commandment written into their Bibles, "thou shalt not listen to secular music; instead thou shalt delude thyself into thinking Christian music is actually good."

Bah. Secular and Christian secular music flogs your normal Christian music any day for creativity and originality. Most contemporary Christian bands are almost impossible to tell apart or simply asinine. I won't listen to that drivel.

well said.

hmmm...on top of that. Why do we often blame music for our lack of...control in our lifestyles? sheesh...the person doesn't become bad because they listened to or watched something that didn't say God every 5 seconds.
I mean...You could remove all secular media from your life; but when it comes down to it, if your heart is black, you'll still act in the same "apathetic and flippant" manner...even if you listen to Hillsongs everyday.

As in "secular music doesn't make you into an apathic person", christian music doesn't make you into a powerful, near-sinless creature who is more than passionate about everything the Bible says.

As far as the Bible saying "You should no listen to secular music", tell me where that is.

 

[ps139]

I think some people have an eleventh commandment written into their Bibles, "thou shalt not listen to secular music; instead thou shalt delude thyself into thinking Christian music is actually good."

Bah. Secular and Christian secular music flogs your normal Christian music any day for creativity and originality. Most contemporary Christian bands are almost impossible to tell apart or simply asinine. I won't listen to that drivel.

Well said.
I do not really like modern Christian music....I don't like the sound. (except for Burlap to Cashmere - great sound, talented band..). The Christian music I like is classical music, Christmas songs.and Catholic songs (If you've been to a Catholic church and an Evangelical church you will notice a huge difference in music styles.). I like Jesu Joy of Man's Desiring, Ave Maria to name a few of the classicals.

But I agree, modern Christian music all sounds the same (to me) and its not that good, for the most part.

 

[Oblivious]

All I have to say is

 

[Mistyfogg]

Axver....very well said. I agree with you 100%

I like Jesu Joy of Man's Desiring, Ave Maria to name a few of the classicals.

I love those songs too. They get played more around Christmas time but I listen to them year round. I learned how to play Jesu Joy of Man's Desiring on the piano but it has been years so I don't know if I could still play it

 

[PreacherFergy]

Well, the evil "error message" monster ate my entire post, so I'll just shorten it a little.
Ephesians 5:19,
"Speaking to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord;"
This verse says we are to sing and make melody to the Lord.

Tell me, how is God pleased w/ a professed Christian listening to P-Diddy, Metallica, Nirvana, etc? I used to be heavily into secular rock music before I was saved, and so I know what it's all about. As Christians, we're supposed to be set apart (*cough* Romans 12:1-2 *cough* ) and not be entangled of the things of the world if we are to be good Christian soldiers.

I would continue on, however my computer was recently formatted because it was "attacked" by the new viruses going around, so I basically lost all of my stuff on my laptop in turn hamstringing a lot of my apologetical resources, so I'll let David Cloud "take this one,"

Part 1:
"Updated November 20, 2002 (first published March 26, 2001) (first published December 10, 1998) (David Cloud, Fundamental Baptist Information Service, P.O. Box 610368, Port Huron, MI 48061, 866-295-4143, fbns@wayoflife.org; for instructions about subscribing and unsubscribing or changing addresses, see the information paragraph at the end of the article) –

On March 24, the popular rock group U2 begins a new tour of American cities called The Elevation Tour. This group is listened to by many professing Christians, who often argue that the members of the band are believers. I put together the following report on U2 when I did research for the book Rock Music vs. the God of the Bible, which we published last year.

U2 was formed in 1978. The group is hugely successful. Their PopMart world tour, which ended in early 1997, earned 100 million British pounds; and the band members “were already among the richest people in the Irish Republic” (Whatever Happened to, p. 198).

Bono (the group’s leader, real name Paul Hewson), Dave Evans (“Edge”), and Larry Mullen visited a charismatic house church called Shalom and announced themselves Christians in their teenage years. U2 member Adam Clayton does not make any type of Christian profession. In my opinion, he is the most honest of the four band members. At least he does not pretend to have faith in the Bible while living a rock & roll lifestyle.

Bono, Evans, and Mullen admit that they wrestled with quitting rock & roll when they began studying the Bible. They chose to stay with rock & roll and have been moving farther and farther from the Bible ever since. Of that early struggle Bono told a Rolling Stones magazine senior editor: “We were getting involved in reading books, the Big Book. Meeting people who were more interested in things spiritual, superspiritual characters that I can see now were possibly far too removed from reality. But we were wrapped up in that.”

This business of spiritually-minded Christians being “too far removed from reality” is a common smokescreen used by rebellious types to excuse their worldliness. The Bible says:

“If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God. Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth. For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God. When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory” (Colossians 3:1-4).

Bono mocks as superspiritual those who attempt to turn from the things of this world to set their minds on heavenly things, but the Bible says that is precisely what God wants His people to do.

U2’s guitarist, Dave Evans, admits that it is a contradiction for Christians to play in a rock & roll band.

“It was reconciling two things that seemed for us at that moment to be mutually exclusive. We never did resolve the contradictions. That’s the truth. ... Because we were getting a lot of people in our ear saying, ‘This is impossible, you guys are Christians, you can’t be in a band. It’s a contradiction and you have to go one way or the other.’ They said a lot worse things than that as well. So I just wanted to find out. I was sick of people not really knowing and me not knowing whether this was right for me. So I took two weeks. Within a day or two I just knew that all this stuff [separating from the world] is ——- [vulgarity]. We were the band. Okay, it’s a contradiction for some, but it’s a contradiction that I’m able to live with. I just decided that I was going to live with it. I wasn’t going to try to explain it because I can’t” (Bill Flanagan, U2 at the End of the World, pp. 47,48).

Note that Evans does not base his decision upon the Word of God. Contrary to Proverbs 3:5,6, he leans on his own desires and understanding.

U2 is frequently mentioned in CCM Magazine in a positive light. For example, the December 1998 issue contained a review of U2’s “Best of 1980-1990” release. The reviewer said: “...U2 has epitomized the question, ‘Is this a Christian band or are its members Christians playing in a band?’” The reviewer praises U2 for its “vivid religious imagery.”

In fact, there is very little, if any, evidence in U2’s lives, music, or performances that they honor the Word of God. They have been at the heart of the wicked rock & roll scene for almost three decades. They are one of the most popular rock & roll groups alive today and this certainly would not be the case if they were striving to obey the Bible in all things. Their record sales are in excess of 70 million. They have won five awards on the wicked MTV. They have often won Rolling Stone magazine’s reader’s poll titles for most popular rock group. Bono has been named the most popular rock singer. In 1992 “Bono was named premier male sexpot” (U2: The Rolling Stone Files, p. xxxvi).

In 1990 Bono said: “More than any other group that ever was, the Who were our role models. I love them and hate them for that” (cited in Rock Facts, Rock & Roll Hall of Fame and Museum, p. 107). As we have documented in our book Rock Music vs. the God of the Bible, the Who was a very wicked rock band, and it is impossible for a person who loves the holy God of the Bible to consider the members of the Who as role models.

Because of their popularity in the rock music field, the members of U2 have had countless opportunities to testify plainly of their faith in Christ, but Bono says they don’t like to discuss their religious beliefs in public. I have read dozens of U2 interviews, but I have never heard them give a clear testimony of the new birth.

The members of U2 don’t support any denomination or church. In fact, they rarely attend church, “preferring to meet together in private prayer sessions” (U2: The Rolling Stone Files, p. 21). Bono says that he would like to be able to go to a Catholic church or a Protestant one (Ibid., p. 20). They are “not rabid Bible thumpers” (Ibid., p. 14). In the song “Acrobat,” Bono sings, “I’d join the movement/ If there was one I could believe in ... I’d break bread and wine/ If there was a church I could receive in.”

One church Bono does attend from time to time is Glide Memorial United Methodist in San Francisco. “When he’s in the area Bono is a frequent worshipper at Glide...” (Flanagan, U2 at the End of the World, p. 99). Bono attended Glide Memorial during a special service they had to honor Clinton’s 1992 presidential election. Speaking at a meeting connected with the 1972 United Methodist Church Quadrennial Conference, Cecil Williams, pastor of the Glide Memorial Methodist Church in San Francisco, California, said, “I don’t want to go to no heaven ... I don’t believe in that stuff. I think it’s a lot of - - - - [curse word].” Long ago William’s church replaced the choir with a rock band, and its “celebrations” have included dancing and even nudity. A Jewish rabbi is on William’s staff. After attending a service at Glide Memorial, a newspaper editor wrote, “The service, in my opinion, was an insult to every Christian attending and was the most disgusting display of vulgarity and sensuousness I have ever seen anywhere.” In spite of William’s apostasy and immorality, his bishop has continued to support him. This is U2’s type of Christianity.

The members of U2 do not believe Christianity should have rules and regulations. “I’m really interested in and influenced by the spiritual side of Christianity, rather than the legislative side, the rules and regulations” (Edge, U2: The Rolling Stone Files, p. 21). The Lord Jesus Christ said those who love Him will keep His commands (John 14:15, 23, 15:10). The Apostle John said, “For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous” (1 John 5:3). There are 88 specific commandments for Christians in the book of Ephesians alone, the same book that says we are saved by grace without works. Though salvation is by grace, it always produces a zeal for obedience to God’s commands."

 

[PreacherFergy]

Part 2:
"The lives of the U2 rock stars illustrate their no-rules philosophy. Bill Flanagan, a U2 friend who has traveled extensively with the group, in his book U2 at the End of the World describes them as heavy drinkers and constant visitors to bars, brothels, and night clubs. He says, “If I wanted to I could fill up hundreds of pages with this sort of three-sheets-to-the-wind [drunken], navel-gazing dialogue between U2 and me” (p. 145). Bono describes their life on the road as “a fairly decadent kind of selfish-art-oriented lifestyle” (Flanagan, p. 79). Their language is interspersed with the vilest vulgarities and even with profanity. Of basketball star Magic Johnson’s widely publicized sexual escapades, Bono says: “Be a sex machine, but for Christ’s sake use a condom” (Flanagan, p. 105). When Clinton won the 1992 presidential election, U2 had just traveled from the United States to Canada. Bono said: “Jesus, isn’t that just like us! It’s a hell of a night to have just left America” (Flanagan, p. 99). Thus he uses the Lord’s name in vain. Much of Bono’s statements cannot be printed in a Christian publication. The cover and lyric sheet to their Achtung Baby album contained photos of the band in homosexual drag clothing (men dressing like women), a picture of Bono in front of a topless woman, and a frontal photo of Adam Clayton completely nude. Bono said the band enjoyed dressing like homosexual drag queens. “Nobody wanted to take their clothes off for about a week! And I have to say, some people have been doing it ever since!” (Bono, cited by Flanagan, p. 58). Bono told the media that he and his bandmates planned to spend New Year’s Eve 2000 in Dublin, because “Dublin knows how to drink” (Bono, USA Today, Oct. 15, 1999, p. E1).Bono has simulated sex with women during his concerts. Their concerts have included video clips portraying nudity and cuss words. One U2 concert series featured a belly dancer. The band members have had serious marital problems and Dave Evans is divorced. Of sex, Bono says: “You know, if you tell people that the best place to have sex is in the safe hands of a loving relationship, you may be telling a lie! There may be other places” (Flanagan, p. 83).

U2’s ambiguous music does not present a clear Christian message, and many of the few songs which do mention Christ do so in a strange, unscriptural manner. “The listener senses something religious is being dealt with but can’t be quite sure what” (Steve Turner, Hungry for Heaven, p. 172). They never preach the gospel of Jesus Christ in a plain manner so that their listeners could be born again. They pose moral questions in some of their songs, but they give no Bible answers. “U2 don’t pretend to have the answers to the world’s troubles. Instead, they devote their energies to letting us know that they are concerned and to creating an awareness about those problems” (U2: The Rolling Stone Files, p. 10). What a pitiful testimony for professing Christian musicians who COULD be preaching the light of the Word of God to a dark and hell-bound world.

One of U2’s most popular songs even proclaims that they haven’t found what they are looking for.

“You broke the bonds/ You loosed the chains/ You carried the cross/ And my shame/ You know I believe it/ But I still haven’t found/ What I’m looking for” (“I Still Haven’t Found What I’m Looking For,” U2).

This is a strange message for an alleged Christian rock group to broadcast to a needy world! During a Dublin concert, Bono paused in the middle of singing “I Still Haven’t Found What I’m Looking For” and shouted, “I hope I never find it!” (U2: The Rolling Stone Files, p. xl).

The group is active in political causes, but they are liberal humanistic ones. For example, in 1992 they played a benefit concert for the environmentalist/pacifist group Greenpeace and joined Greenpeace in protesting against a nuclear power plant. One of their hits, “Pride,” is a tribute to the civil rights leader Martin Luther King; and in 1994, U2 received the Martin Luther King Freedom Award. King was an adulterous, modernistic preacher who taught a false social gospel. U2 supported the adulterous, abortion-homosexual supporting Bill Clinton in his 1992 run for president. Clinton conversed with them on a national radio talk show during the election campaign and met them in a hotel room in Chicago. At the same time they mocked George Bush during their USA concerts that year. They featured a video clip depicting Bush chanting the words to “We Will Rock You” by the homosexual rock group Queen. Members of U2 performed at Bill Clinton’s televised inaugural ball on MTV. Bono said he was glad that Clinton’s election was a victory for homosexuals (Flanagan, p. 100).

Bono’s christ appears to be a false one. He says he is “attracted to people like Martin Luther King, Gandhi, Christ, to pacifism” (U2: The Rolling Stone Files, p. xxviii). The Lord Jesus Christ of the Bible is not a pacifist. He is not anything like the modernist Martin Luther or the Hindu Gandhi. Christ did instruct His people not to resist evil in the sense of taking up arms for religious causes. When persecuted, we are to endure it (1 Cor. 4:12), but Christ did not teach pacifism. Christ’s forerunner, John the Baptist, warned soldiers to be content with their wages, but he did not rebuke them for carrying arms as soldiers (Lk. 3:14). Before his death, Christ instructed his followers to provide swords for themselves (Lk. 22:32-38). Christ said he came not to send peace but a sword (Mt. 10:34). In fact, the Lord Jesus Christ will return on a white horse to make war with his enemies (Rev. 19:11-16). The Christ of the Bible is no pacifist and He did not establish a pacifist movement.

The following quotations demonstrate that U2’s “spirituality” is not based on the Bible:

“... Bono dislikes the label ‘born-again Christian’—and he doesn’t go to church either. ‘I’m a very, very bad advertisement for God...’” (U2: The Rolling Stone Files).

“Born again Christian Bono has slipped from his saintly ways—with a nine-hour binge which left him ‘brainless’... The U2 star ... got struck into beer, wine, cocktails and bubbly celebrating the American release of the band’s Rattle And Hum film. ‘He was slobbering, shouting and showing off,’ said a bartender at the Santa Monica niterie that hosted the bash. ‘Even the rest of the band told him to calm down. They should have been kicked out but because of who they are we let them stay...’” (The People, Oct. 23, 1988, p. 15, cited by Jeff Godwin, What’s Wrong with Christian Rock?, p. 70).

“A U2 concert aims to raise people’s sense of their own worth. ‘Its a celebration of me being me and you being you,’ as Bono once put it. The music soars and swirls but never bludgeons. ... ‘I want people to leave our concerts feeling positive, a bit more free,’ says Bono” (Steve Turner, Hungry for Heaven, p. 28).

“People expect you, as a believer, to have all the answers, when really all you have is a whole new set of questions” (Bono, cited by Steve Turner, Hungry for Heaven, p. 173).

“The link between rock ‘n’ roll and gospel is not at all tenuous. In my walking into walls spiritually I’m not as alone as I once thought I was. When I look back there’s Patti Smith and Bob Dylan and Van Morrison and Elvis Presley—right the way down the line” (Bono, cited by Steve Turner, p. 28).

“Once I thought rock ‘n’ roll didn’t have a place for spiritual concerns. But I’ve since discovered that a lot of the artists who have inspired me—Bob Dylan, Van Morrison, Patti Smith, Al Green and Marvin Gaye—were in a similar position ... that’s why I’m more at ease” (Bono, cited by Steve Turner, Hungry for Heaven, back cover).

Bono points to rock stars Bob Dylan, Van Morrison, Elvis Presley, Patti Smith, and Marvin Gaye as an inspiration for spiritual concerns. This is most amazing, as not one of these has possessed a biblical faith in Jesus Christ as God and Redeemer. Not one has accepted the Bible as the infallible Word of God. Dylan went through a brief phase of professing faith in Christ in the late 1970s and early 1980s, but he has long since repudiated that. An article in the San Luis Obispo (California) Register for March 16, 1983, quoted Dylan as saying: “Whoever said I was Christian? Like Gandhi, I’m Christian, I’m Jewish, I’m a Moslem, I’m a Hindu. I am a humanist.” Van Morrison believes a New Age sort of hodgepodge theology condensed from his studies in Buddhism, Christianity, Hinduism, and Scientology. He calls himself a “Christian mystic” but does not trust Jesus Christ as God and Savior. Punk rocker Patti Smith curses and blasphemes God on her 1978 Easter album. In her song “Gloria” she says: “Jesus died for somebody’s sins/ But not mine.” She says, “I’ve been called a blasphemer a thousand times but I said that [in the song ‘Gloria’] because I refuse to accept that I came into this world as a sinner” (Patti Smith, cited by Steve Turner, Hungry for Heaven, p. 143). Her heroes in the Bible are Cain, Eve, and Lucifer. Marvin Gaye combined his vile immorality with a vague religiosity. “On his album Sexual Healing he recites a list of credits, including one for ‘our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ,’ and then glides straight into a song about wanting some woman’s body. That’s the way he would have liked it to be. He would like to have been able to obey his darkest passions and purify himself at the same time. ... On stage he would strip down to a jock strap” (Hungry for Heaven). Elvis Presley did love gospel music and even professed faith in Christ to some people, but he gave no evidence of being a Bible-believing Christian. He constructed “a personalised religion out of what he’d read of Hinduism, Judaism, numerology, theosophy, mind control, positive thinking and Christianity.”"
http://www.wayoflife.org/fbns/rockgroupu2.html

We must not let our lifestyle determine our theology, but let our theolgy determine our lifestyle!

 

[christpunx]

this thread makes me laugh.

 

[ps139]

Awaiting our resident U2 expert's forthcoming response.....

 

[wonder111]

I'm sorry, but I've watched and read a lot of Bono's interviews, and all I got from them was that he is extremely compassionate. He is doing more for humanity than a lot of Christians. I also know a large amount of 'church goers' who do not hold up to the 'love your neighbor as yourself' commandment. I think only God knows the heart of Bono and the other musicians.

 

[nadroj1985]

OOOOOOHHHHHH!!!! Axver's gonna lay into ya, man!!! Trust me, this is not the place to diss U2......Go get 'im Axver lol

 

[Oblivious]

Perhaps someone should change the title of this thread to "U2 Bashing"

Geez....

 

[J.A.I]

Hmmmmmmmmmmmm...........

 

[* kittie *]

I'm sorry, but I've watched and read a lot of Bono's interviews, and all I got from them was that he is extremely compassionate. He is doing more for humanity than a lot of Christians. I also know a large amount of 'church goers' who do not hold up to the 'love your neighbor as yourself' commandment. I think only God knows the heart of Bono and the other musicians.

wonderfully said.
not much else i wanted to say. i just felt i should say how much i agreed.