Why is there a secular music part to a Christian site?

PreacherFergy said:

Honestly, how could I be going the wrong way? I'm trying to stay away from secular influences as much as I can, as I'm not infallible and impressionable as all of us are.

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do you see non-christian movies, watch non-christian tv shows, read non-christian books?

First, I want to apologize. I think in a post of two, I got this thread confused with a couple of other ones that are similar.

Let's get back to the original post.

The Bible teaches Christians shouldn't listen to secular music which doesn't bring glory to God.

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Please provide scripture for this and then tell me who decides what is appropriate and what is not.

Brettnolan, your hyporcrisy is apparent. You're building up a straw-man, saying that I'm some robe wearing, bitter prune Pharisee. Actually, I'm quite different. If you talk to my friends, I believe they'd say I'm very patient and love joking around. Perhaps you should judge *righteous* judgment, and not according to appearance (John 7:24)

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I have not built any straw man, you have done that yourself with comments like the one below.

I honestly would like to ask some of you if you've ever experienced true salvation

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This is exactly the kind of comment you could expect of a Pharisee.

Point out to me where I am being hypocritical. I have pointed out how your posts have been very self-righteous, and I'm not the only one who has noted this, and that is the only judgement I have made against you. That judgement has been based on your statements and a bunch of biased drivel you posted from an article. You have proven yourself guilty, I am on accusing you without foundation. I reviewed the posts that I made and failed to find where I put on a mask of one thing while depicting another thing through my words.

Yes, I have made the observation that you are presenting a self-righteous argument. You are questioning the salvation of those who listen to secular music. This is what the Pharisees did and why I posted the scripture from Luke. Jesus made the exact same observation, pointing out to them that they had no right to question the salvation of the "sinners" of the time because they THOUGHT they were better than everyone else and their interpretations were right and others were wrong.

I am NOT questioning your salvation. I AM questioning your motivation and your discernment.

PreacherFergy said:

Honestly, how could I be going the wrong way? I'm trying to stay away from secular influences as much as I can, as I'm not infallible and impressionable as all of us are.

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If you think that it's beneficial to you to stay away from secular music, then by all means you should do it. Where I personally believe you are going wrong is in saying that what works for you can and must work for everyone else.

Where did a Pharisee ever question the "salvation" of someone???

Several people in this thread just parrot some false teachings floating around our day. You have no scriptural background for your beliefs, so you just decide to employ ad hominem attacks (Pharisee, jerk, self-righteous, etc.)

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I repeat my parrotting...
Luke 9:11 The proud Pharisee(PreacherFergie) stood by himself and prayed this prayer: 'I thank you, God, that I am not a sinner like everyone else(who listens to secular music), especially like that tax collector (U2 band member) over there! For I never (listen to anything but praise music, including Amy Grant's Heart in Motion CD) cheat, I don't sin (at least not as much as they do), I don't commit adultery, 12 I fast(go to church) twice a week, and I give you a tenth of my income.'

Pick your nits all day long if you like...you KNOW what this means.

Brett, I never pointed you out and said you're wearing a facade, mask, or that you're a lost "hellion,"

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Brettnolan, your hyporcrisy is apparent.

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I think you did. Look it up.

BTW - I asked YOU to provide scripture for your opening post and got another dodge. I have provided scripture more than once. Hmmm.

guys calm down, lets stop with the personal attacks... they aren't becomming on anyone.

again, if God tells you to stop listening to secular music, then stop. but don't tell everyone else that because you do something everyone else must also.

Interesting point from the OP.

If we shouldn't listen to secular music, then in the name of honesty we'd have to trash most of our saccharine christian music. Or we'd be more justified owning secular music which possesses more meaningful words.

this discussion ceases to be of value as soon as we start attacking each other and not honestly presenting what we believe God is teaching us. are we really seeking to bring each other closer to the love of God or just prove our points? the second just doesn't cut it.

It's funner to beat each other up.

Well, that's how it seems to be anyway.

"At least he does not pretend to have faith in the Bible while living a rock & roll lifestyle."

So are you saying that rock and roll is not of God? You can have a Christian rock band..

Also, the Bible may say to listen to music glorifying to God, but that simply means to listen to it. Therefore you do. What does that have to do with also, listening to a song not about God? It doesn't say "only" listen to that, or don't listen to anything else. It simply says listen to it. Wouldn't that be like saying that if you don't think aout God for a few minutes you're sinning?

ha looks like you're right Mr. Cheese. they were looking for you in the apologetics cathouse thread by the way. looks

lol.

you know that I was listening to Judas Priest the night I accepted Jesus into my heart?

PreacherFergy said:

Brett, you need to stop practicing eisegesis. Also, aparently you don't even know reference, as it isn't in Luke 9, it's in Luke 18.

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I guess my error makes it invalid.

PreacherFergy said:

From your interpretation, or rather, eisegesis of that passage, you admit that listening to secular music is wrong since the publican was sorry for the things he'd done.

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Word of the day?
You've got to be kidding!

PreacherFergy said:

I did provide a passage from Ephesians, Romans 12, Romans 6, and basically the whole book of Psalms which I don't think would be good to quote here. So please stop making false accusations

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Here is what you used

PreacherFergy said:

Ephesians 5:19,
"Speaking to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord;"
This verse says we are to sing and make melody to the Lord.

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Now let's expand the passage and see who is the eisegese-ER.

"17 Don't act thoughtlessly, but try to understand what the Lord wants you to do. 18 Don't be drunk with wine, because that will ruin your life. Instead, let the Holy Spirit fill and control you. 19 Then you will sing psalms and hymns and spiritual songs among yourselves, making music to the Lord in your hearts."

Where is the command not to listen to secular music? It sounds as if someone could "interpret this text (as of the Bible) by reading into it one's own ideas ." To me this says, when you let the Holy Spirit control you, you will be filled with JOY and as a result you MAY sing psalms and hymns and spiritual songs in your heart as well as a number of other things. For instance, you MAY run out into the street and tell all your neighbors the good news. OR you MAY be compelled to dance a jig in the pastor's office. Is this REALLY a limitation on how we can express the JOY in our hearts?

PreacherFergy said:

we're supposed to be set apart (*cough* Romans 12:1-2 *cough* ) and not be entangled of the things of the world

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Rom 12
1 And so, dear brothers and sisters, I plead with you to give your bodies to God. Let them be a living and holy sacrifice – the kind he will accept. When you think of what he has done for you, is this too much to ask? 2 Don't copy the behavior and customs of this world, but let God transform you into a new person by changing the way you think. Then you will know what God wants you to do, and you will know how good and pleasing and perfect his will really is.

I'll assume your referring to the part I have bolded in this passage. So you're eisegese-ING again, inserting your idea that one of the behaviors and customs that we aren't to copy is listening to secular music. Well, since I am a blatant eisegese-ER myself, I don't think we should copy the custom of taking a bath everyday, or washing our car, or owning pets.

Romans 6 talks about leaving behind your life of sin. It says NOTHING about MUSIC AT ALL. The only way this applies to the current debate, is if you presuppose that listening to secular music is a sin. Which you have yet to prove. I have just finished reading the Psalms recently and I don't recall any of them telling me what kind of music is NOT allowed.

Here are a couple more verses I found in your posts:
John 7:24 - "Think this through and you will see that I am right."
- I can only imagine what you had in mind with that one.

and 1 Cor. 2:14-15 (and I'll add 16 for my own pleasure)
"14 But people who aren't Christians can't understand these truths from God's Spirit. It all sounds foolish to them because only those who have the Spirit can understand what the Spirit means. 15 We who have the Spirit understand these things, but others can't understand us at all. 16 How could they? For, "Who can know what the Lord is thinking? Who can give him counsel?" But we can understand these things, for we have the mind of Christ."
- Again, presupposing what these "truths" are.

Ferg, accusing is rather harsh. You can view that way if you'd like. What I feel that I have done, is simply point out to you how this statement

PreacherFergy said:

I honestly would like to ask some of you if you've ever experienced true salvation

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is like that of the Pharisee. If you can't see the parallel, then I can't help you.

I still feel the need to get this thread back to where it started. The answer to your question, why is there a secular music part to a Christian site?, should be obvious. Answer - a lot of Christians listen to secular music and aren't convicted that it's a sin.

My opinion is that if you are going to say

PreacherFergy said:

a Christian has no excuse to be listening to the (secular) music

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in your opening post, then you need to prove that it's sinful.

And finally, I saw the Amy Grant attack coming as soon as I posted it. I would just say that you are only bolstering my argument, unless you are intimately aware of Amy's personal life.

But LO! There is another. Michael W Smith has had 2 albums prominent in secular music, where the message was either hidden or not existent in some songs. And another. God Gave Rock and Roll to You was written by Russ Ballard a member of the secular rock group Argent AND recorded by the Knights in Satan's Service, commonly known as KISS, then finally recorded by Petra on their Beat the System album. I'm sure there are many other examples, but these particular artists are well respected CCM artists over MANY years. Surely you wouldn't question whether or not they have experienced TRUE salvation?

brettnolan said:

I still feel the need to get this thread back to where it started. The answer to your question, why is there a secular music part to a Christian site?, should be obvious. Answer - a lot of Christians listen to secular music and aren't convicted that it's a sin....you need to prove that it's sinful.

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Exactly. Obviously there are many Christians here who disagree with you on the real crux of the issue--secular music is not a sin. I think you need to be able to display why you think it is, and then we can argue it from there.

PreacherFergy said:

Honestly, how could I be going the wrong way? I'm trying to stay away from secular influences as much as I can, as I'm not infallible and impressionable as all of us are.

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do you see non-christian movies, watch non-christian tv shows, read non-christian books?

brettnolan said:

God Gave Rock and Roll to You was written by Russ Ballard a member of the secular rock group Argent AND recorded by the Knights in Satan's Service, commonly known as KISS, then finally recorded by Petra on their Beat the System album.

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Actually, Petra recorded the song before KISS (which does not stand for "Knights In Satan's Service", by the way), but I digress.

12volt_man said:

Actually, Petra recorded the song before KISS (which does not stand for "Knights In Satan's Service", by the way), but I digress.

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You are correct on both counts. Point stands however as it was not written by any Petra member.

On the latter point, I was being facetious...referring to earlier in the thread.

brettnolan said:

You are correct on both counts. Point stands however as it was not written by any Petra member.

On the latter point, I was being facetious...referring to earlier in the thread.

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I know. I wasn't trying to give you a hard time. I've just been through so many "rock is evil" battles and the "God Gave Rock and Roll to You" thing (usually in the form of a cut and paste from "Dial the Truth") is one of their favorite tactics.

Usually, they become pretty upset when you point this out.