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Why is there a secular music part to a Christian site?

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brettnolan

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DMB233 said:
what does kiss stand for???
I forgot there are a lot of young 'uns around here that might not get that...

When I was a kid, we were indoctrinated that KISS stood for Knights in Satan's Service. My parents also tried to tell me that Pat Benatar's Hit Me With Your Best Shot had a filthy sexual meaning...you know...like Cum on Feel the Noize.

Stuff you might find in the book "Rock Music vs. the God of the Bible."

By the way...the purple Teletubby is gay.
 
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seebs

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"Eidetic was closest when he explained te origin of NIN's name. Trent simply thought it up one day, while living with drummer Chris Vrenna. He wanted something that sounded "hard"... tough as nails. Plus it looked good when written down and could easily be abbreviated in many ways, shapes, and forms. After passing Trent's brutal one-week-test (if a name he thought up didn't sound good after a week, Trent would automatically dismiss it and move on to another one) Nine Inch Nails was accepted. HOWEVER, the stories of the crucifixtion nails, coffin nails, and state of liberty's fingernails are indeed true, but 100% coincidental. This is coming straight from the source (Trent Reznor) himself."

(http://www.amiright.com/names/origins/n.shtml)

I think there's a lot to be said for the question of how we listen to music as separate from what the artist may have had in mind, whether consciously or unconsciously. I knew a guy who absolutely loved Depeche Mode, and hated gays.
 
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wgjones3

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I'm going to make this simple: if you're new to the faith or your faith is so rocky that listening to secular music creates a divsion between you and God, then no--you absolutely should not listen to it, but don't make the mistake of thinking that everyone is in that same boat with you.

I believe your heart is in the right place in asking this question, but there's something you have to understand. It's not that which goes into the body that defiles, but that which comes out of the mouth (Matt 15:11, paraphrased by me). I understand the whole garbage-in, garbage-out theory, and that's great for computers, but people aren't computers. It's only through the redeptive power of Jesus Christ that we are cleansed. To say otherwise is to rely on works, and the Bible is clear that we are not saved by works (Ephesians 2: 8-9).

Just for a moment, take this scripture, 1 Thessalonians 5:17, which commands us to pray without ceasing. Applying the same reasoning you used, then a person is guilty of sinning when they sleep or eat. That's what it says, right? But if you look at it like this--over the course of a lifetime, a person who prays daily (even if it is only once a day) does pray without ceasing until death comes, right? Over the long haul, they never stopped, even though they didn't pray 24/7/365.

Ephesians 5:19 doesn't forbid listening to anything except Christian music. It does command us to worship God.

The whole practice of making blanket statements such as "the Bible says Christians should not listen to secular music" does nothing but show an incomplete knowledge of scripture and creates division among believers. What effect do you think that has on non-believers? If one person turns away from Christ without being saved because of strife within the church, then how do you think God feels? Do you think He'll be angry because His children were listening to the Dixie Chicks, or do you think He'll be angry because His children were infighting instead of doing His work?
 
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ps139

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seebs said:
"Eidetic was closest when he explained te origin of NIN's name. Trent simply thought it up one day, while living with drummer Chris Vrenna. He wanted something that sounded "hard"... tough as nails. Plus it looked good when written down and could easily be abbreviated in many ways, shapes, and forms. After passing Trent's brutal one-week-test (if a name he thought up didn't sound good after a week, Trent would automatically dismiss it and move on to another one) Nine Inch Nails was accepted. HOWEVER, the stories of the crucifixtion nails, coffin nails, and state of liberty's fingernails are indeed true, but 100% coincidental. This is coming straight from the source (Trent Reznor) himself."

(http://www.amiright.com/names/origins/n.shtml)
I believe that - all 4 stories there pretty much say the same thing, but most importanty, it sounds good phonetically, which would make this coincidence a believable possibility.
 
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PreacherFergy

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Ok, first small side note,

I'm not getting any "email notifications" for my posts. I'm on about 5 other message boards, and only have a problem w/ this site? Any suggestion?

On to the main topic,

Dave Cloud nor I have ever claimed to be perfect. We just try to follow such verses as John 7:24 and 1 Cor. 2:14-15. I'm not perfect. I daily battle w/ sin and the fallen nature, but that's the thing! We as Christians, we BATTLE sin, we don't "woller" in it.

Another point which pertains to the subject, what's up w/ the cursing? That's a truly poor sign of a professed Christian. Have you never read the epistle of James?
"If any man among you seem to be religious, and bridleth not his tongue, but deceiveth his own heart, this man's religion [is] vain." (James 1:26)

Sure, I cussed quite often as well *when I was lost and without Christ* I used to love rock music (Nirvana, Green Day, Bush, some U2, Filter, 311, Rage Against the Machine), etc. but however, when the Lord saved me, He showed me the error in that! It's a sin for a Christian to pollute their minds w/ such trash. We are to gird up our minds, they can be quite weak! They're the "playground of the Devil," etc.

I honestly would like to ask some of you if you've ever experienced true salvation. Have you had that change in your heart, that change that turned your heart from the things of the world to the things of God.

Colossians says that Christ is our life! How can Christ be our life if our mouths utter curse words, repeat ungodly lyrics. Our mouths cannot in one breath truly utter Christ's praise and in the other utter curse words! Can a fountain both yield salt water and fresh, as James said?

For the one who said, "I know Christians who listent o Marilyn Manson," yes I've met "Christians" as well who do also. However, you know what? Their lives didn't bear ONE Christ-like fruit in the several years I knew them. That's quite sad.

While I'm not busying w/ college or church, I landscape. A lot of times a customer will ask us to plant some plants or trees in his/her yard, and we have to make sure we have the right plant or tree. If we're looking for an oak tree, we know that oak tree produces a certain kind of leaf and has others "earmarks" which show us what it is. Even so, it's the same thing w/ Christians. Christians produce Christ-like fruit. Are Christians perfect? No, as John the beloved pointed out in 1 John 1.

I read post after post and all I could think of was the church of Laodicea. I'm sure they cusses, were involved in wordly events, praised ungodly men, and were apathetic toward the things of Christ. It's easy to say "I'm a Christian," or "I'm a prayer warrior," but you know what? I've met some people who talk about the things "they've done for Christ" or their supposed accomplishments, how they're such Bible students and prayer warriors, but when you actually peel away the facade, they're quite carnal. On the other hand, I've met some people who never boast of their works they've done for Christ, or how much they've prayed, but you can just see that their walk w/ Christ is so pure, you can see their lives are truly bathed w/ prayer (and I'm not talking about that carnal, false "prayer bathing," etc. found on 'Praise the Lord'/TBN.

Problems like these have answers. The answer for this problem isn't to sit here and debate every little topic, or point out all the fallacies in some of the half-hearted rebuttals, but the good thing would be to pray for those who apparently have a "heart problem." I'm not saying they need a "triple bypass," but I'm saying, they may need one spiritually. The things of this world have clogged up several "hearts" in this thread and it's apparent by your word usage, comments, and views on things.
:( :(
"Jesus, keep me near the cross;
there a precious fountain,
free to all, a healing stream,
flows from Calvary's mountain. "
 
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brettnolan

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Luke
9 Then Jesus told this story to some who had great self-confidence and scorned everyone else: 10 "Two men went to the Temple to pray. One was a Pharisee, and the other was a dishonest tax collector. 11 The proud Pharisee stood by himself and prayed this prayer: 'I thank you, God, that I am not a sinner like everyone else, especially like that tax collector over there! For I never cheat, I don't sin, I don't commit adultery, 12 I fast twice a week, and I give you a tenth of my income.' 13 "But the tax collector stood at a distance and dared not even lift his eyes to heaven as he prayed. Instead, he beat his chest in sorrow, saying, 'O God, be merciful to me, for I am a sinner.' 14 I tell you, this sinner, not the Pharisee, returned home justified before God. For the proud will be humbled, but the humble will be honored."

Matthew
16 "Don't you understand?" Jesus asked him. 17 "Anything you eat passes through the stomach and then goes out of the body. 18 But evil words come from an evil heart and defile the person who says them. 19 For from the heart come evil thoughts, murder, adultery, all other sexual immorality, theft, lying, and slander. 20 These are what defile you. Eating with unwashed hands could never defile you and make you unacceptable to God!"

BTW-who was cussing?
 
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PreacherFergy

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I didn't take names, but if you read through the thread, you'll see the "*"s denoting them.

One thing I had to come back to say that I forgot to at first,

Ok, Bono admitted he doesn't attend church, and someone here said there's nothing wrong w/ not going to church if you have "private prayer" etc. That's about the most unscriptural thing I've heard in this thread. Have you not read Hebrews? We are not supposed to forsake the assembling of ourselves together (Heb. 10:25). How can we build each other up in Christ if we never attend God's house?

Truly, I'd rather be a doorholder at the house of God (which I actually am) than dwell in the tents of the wicked.

Brett,
Thankyou for quoting those verses, as I love them, especially Luke 18:9-14, as I often use that passage when witnessing to Mormons, Roman Catholics, "Jehovah's Witnesses" (followers of Charles Taz Russel, actually). etc.

Now excuse me, I'm going to go finish listening to a wonderful rendition of "O Come, O Come, Emmanuel" by Nicole C. Mullen :clap:
 
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TheThinman

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12volt_man said:
I agree. I was one of those guys. I used to be the most strident anti-rock crusader when I was a new Christian.

I went out and bought all of the books that told me how evil rock and roll was: the Peters Brothers (who later renounced many of their anti-rock views), Fletcher A. Brothers, Hell's Bells, all of that stuff.

If David Cloud and "dial the truth" had been around then, I probably would have fallen for their garbage, too.

There was nothing anyone could say to change my mind. Anytime they opened their mouths I would just say that they were decieved and if they were a Christian that they were backslidden or some such nonsense.

So I know all of the arguments and all of the tricks from both sides. There was a time when virtually every thread on baptistboard.com was a music debate about rick and roll. Those who opposed it quit arguing because they knew they were wrong and went and started onlinebaptist.com, where they will tell you that no talk of Christian rock or [mainstream] rock and roll will be tolerated, but virtually every thread is there to condemn it.

That's fine. It's their board and they can run it any way they want to. My point (and I didi have one) is that when someone is this dogmatic about anything, there's no talking to them. That's precisely why I haven't debated with this guy.

I threw out God only knows how many albums. I quit playing music. Little did I know that not only was I not doing what God wanted me to, but that He would later call me to minister right in the midst of it.



Hardly. I enjoy their music as a casual listener but, to be honest, I doubt their even in my top twenty favorites.

Hardly blind "love for" them.



They are a mainstream band but, by definition, they aren't secular.

This was my point exactly.

I did not say evryone was reacting to the U2 element of the argument, but clearly there is alot of overreacting hostile U2 lovers here. LOL
 
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J.A.I

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PreacherFergy said:
I honestly would like to ask some of you if you've ever experienced true salvation. Have you had that change in your heart, that change that turned your heart from the things of the world to the things of God.
True salvation as opposed to fake ?

----

I read post after post and all I could think of was the church of Laodicea. I'm sure they cusses, were involved in wordly events, praised ungodly men, and were apathetic toward the things of Christ. It's easy to say "I'm a Christian," or "I'm a prayer warrior," but you know what? I've met some people who talk about the things "they've done for Christ" or their supposed accomplishments, how they're such Bible students and prayer warriors, but when you actually peel away the facade, they're quite carnal. On the other hand, I've met some people who never boast of their works they've done for Christ, or how much they've prayed, but you can just see that their walk w/ Christ is so pure, you can see their lives are truly bathed w/ prayer (and I'm not talking about that carnal, false "prayer bathing," etc. found on 'Praise the Lord'/TBN.

Problems like these have answers. The answer for this problem isn't to sit here and debate every little topic, or point out all the fallacies in some of the half-hearted rebuttals, but the good thing would be to pray for those who apparently have a "heart problem." I'm not saying they need a "triple bypass," but I'm saying, they may need one spiritually. The things of this world have clogged up several "hearts" in this thread and it's apparent by your word usage, comments, and views on things.:( :(

Just because someone does not hold the same views as you does not mean they are wrong nor have a 'problem' as you stated...... be careful as to not elevate yourself. It seems somewhat like you're making it seem as though you are holier than thou.. so be careful. I listen to secular music, but it doesn't have profanity nor obscenity. I am a musician and I enjoy music... from Tchaikovsky to India Arie to Aaliyah to Michelle Branch.. I honestly do not see anything wrong w/listening to certain secular music. If it convicts you, cool, but you cannot force someone else to be convicted because not everything is for everyone. :clap:
 
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