Why is there a secular music part to a Christian site?

[Grover143]

Oh - I totally understand And I was there at one point -- not being affected by secular music.... for 21 years! Or so I thought. I still can't put together a direct correlation between my listening habits and lifestyle, but when I rid myself of my secular music habits, and made that sacrifice - to only listen to music that glorified God - my happiness in life was raised to a new level. I honestlly believe music is a glass ceiling for everyone - whether they realize it or not. It's not sinning, but I believe it holds one back from the blessings God truly has in store for you.

Well, what can I say, I can't see inside your heart. Your perception of increased happiness is a wonderful thing. Whether or not it's due to the actual influence you feel "secular music" had over you is not a subject I feel could be sucessfully addressed in this forum. I don't believe there is a "glass ceiling" in regards to music types. This is my opinion and I guess we can and agree to disagree.

With regard to music affecting the mind and the subconcious, I can point you to well-documented scientific studies that prove a direct correlation between the music we listen to and the actions of individuals. Of course, you could find them just as easily as I could, so Google it

These studies you speak of, I am aware of some reported statistics. However, I was speaking of christians specifically, and I doubt those studies were targeted at christians but more at a particular segment of society as a whole. When we talk of the Holy Spirit's influence in these areas, clearly, these studies cannot be embraced as a support of your argument.

As I will touch on again soon, the Holy Spirit will only assist and counsel when we ask to be counselled and allow for a restorative work.

I flatly reject the notion that the Holy Spirit will ONLY assist us when we ask for it. The HS is constantly tugging at us and trying to help us. It is our job to be listening, but even when we aren't, the HS is not just hanging around waiting for us to ask his opinion. He is active, not reactive.

As for exploiting a market sector... You know better than that!! The Christian music listening base is miniscule compared to the listening base of secular music. "Exploiting" that market would reap benefits hardly comparable to branching into the secular segment. If any Christian label went mainstream, their profits would increase big time.

I don't pay any different prices for my Christian CDs than a regular CD costs. It's all 12.98 or whatever at Amazon or Wal-Mart. In fact, some labels even sell to distributors at little-to-no profit. By setting themselves apart as a Christian label, as I stated before, there is an automatic penalty.

The "christian music" listening base is smaller than the "secular music" base, that's true, but it's large enough and has enough purchasing power to make the effort worthwhile for those labels. I don't believe these labels would last a month in the "secular" marketplace because they lack the funds and the exposure to compete. They've carved out their niche and they're milking it for all it's worth without having to do anything but wait for "christian" copies of "secular" acts & then run ad campaigns to christians. They never take chances, they never push the envelope, they're nice and safe. This penalty you speak of is actually more of a help then a hindrance. It allows people to feel good about listening to their artist's because they've been brainwashed into thinking that "secular" music is "of the devil". So they open their wallets with glee spending millions on watered down versions of "secular" acts.

I am curious to hear about these "little-or-no-profit" labels you speak of. I say that honestly, not sarcastically. Drop me a line if you have that info handy, I'd like to read it.

I don't judge anyone who listens to secular music...
...If we go into our prayer closets already believing secular music is fine and there is nothing wrong with it, we shut ourselves off from the discerning power of the Spirit.

I am not expecting anyone to change their views on this matter based on my. I have heard the exact stuff I speak of tons of times - at every Acquire the Fire, countless retreats, etc. It doesn't make a difference unless the Holy Spirit makes a move and we are willing to listen and accept such a movement.

Ok, If I'm reading this right, you're saying you don't judge people for listening to "secular" music, but at the same time you seem to be saying that if you think that listening to "secular" music is ok then you're not listening to the Holy Spirit. Then you're backing up this position by all these retreats & conferences you've attended. That sounds like a judgement to me. Are you saying that the HS has convicted you personally, and it's relative to you, or it's relative to everyone and the people who don't "get it" aren't listening to the HS? Your posts suggest the latter.

I appreciate this dialouge, but frankly I'm arguing within a position I don't agree with in the first place. The distinction between "secular" and "christian" is IMO a flawed way of defining this issue. You can see my earlier posts if you want to understand what I'm getting at. God bless yall!!!

 

[Grover143]

As a side note: You are the first person to come into this thread and attempt to present a reasonable argument as to why God might not want us to listen to secular music, without condescending and belittling others. Thanks

This was nice, and I like it!!!!

 

[jons911]

Sorry, I don't have time to respond to your whole post right now, but I just wanted to say something about the above comments. Here you are assuming that being affected by secular music is always bad. We can be influenced positively by "secular music," and negatively by "Christian" music. It's all in the way you evaluate a piece of music. Therefore, this "glass ceiling" you speak of can be just as much in effect when listening to "Christian" music as "secular."

Terrific point!! I am not sure if you had read my previous posts or not - but I see nothing wrong with secular music that glorifies God. And likewise, I understand that some "Christian" music provides a negative impact, as well. For that reason, I qualify the music I listen to as "music that glorifies God" which can be accomplished regardless of what record label the band is produced under. I think I used the term secular in a couple different contexts in my previous posts - I will be sure to clarify better in the future.

I am worried people are being confused by two distinct personal decisions I have made regarding music. LOL - In fact, I think I may have confused myself earlier, as I have just realized the extent of my beliefs just now

1. I listen only to music that glorifies God
   • While this tends to be music under a Christian label, I do like bands such as Lifehouse, POD, etc.
   • One would have a difficult time proving Beethoven or Bach was "bad" music, though it is secular. In fact, one could certainly argue instrumental music intrinsically glorifies God.
2. I support bands (buy CDs) produced under Christian labels
   • I'd rather my money be used to further the will of God than the will of man. And Christian labels provide a more meaningful location to direct my funds, as they have taken on the label of Christian, and the ramifications listed earlier.
   • I choose not to support bands such as those mentioned above only because what the band receives from a CD purchase. I would still consider a concert or something, as, then, what the band receives is much more proportional to their efforts.

As a side note: You are the first person to come into this thread and attempt to present a reasonable argument as to why God might not want us to listen to secular music, without condescending and belittling others. Thanks

Why, thank you! I think a debate can be a much more pleasant experience if we all would check the accusatory remarks at the door, and enter as objective, considerate individuals!!

 

[the_sam_man87]

POD, linkin park, evenescence, robzombie, powerman 5000, metallica.

POD is a christian band ammy lee talks about killing her silf

 

[nadroj1985]

Here's my question. I've heard quite a few people say that the main point of music must be to glorify God, and therefore we should only listen to music that does so. Forgetting about the debate over what does and doesn't glorify God, can we not listen to music just for fun? Is there no middle ground? Instrumental music is a good example of this, or foreign music where you don't understand the words (i.e. Sigur Ros, Tortoise, Miles Davis). I don't listen to this music necessarily for spiritual enlightenment, but just because I enjoy listening to it. Is this not a valuable reason to listen to music?

 

[seebs]

I would not, in a million years, call Bach "secular". There is little music out there which is more clearly Christian.

I tend to think that it is not the music itself, but our response to it, which glorifies God.

 

[jons911]

Alright - I don't know anything about classical music; Beethoven and Bach were random names. I meant instrumental. I qualified that with my following statement.

One would have a difficult time proving Beethoven or Bach was "bad" music, though it is secular. In fact, one could certainly argue instrumental music intrinsically glorifies God.

 

[nadroj1985]

I tend to think that it is not the music itself, but our response to it, which glorifies God.

Good point seebs. I completely agree. That's why these distinctions between secular and Christian don't really work. No music is completely "Christian" or "secular" since we all have different responses to and evaluations of them.

 

[prince didymus]

...amy lee talks about killing her self

What lyrics are you listening to?

 

[Caedmon]

An oxymoron.

shalom
Andy

Definition #4

 

[EliasEmmanuel]

From my research, I'd be willing to conclude the vast majority of references to music in the Bible are with regard to praising God. And on top of that, I'd make the conjecture that when music was used in the Bible without praising God or in a joyful setting, there were evil forces at work. I have not researched this completely, which is why I infer my guesswork on the above conclusion.

I'd say that's a big stretch of logic. Scripture likely doesn't mention it for the same reason it doesn't detail how the Israelites washed dishes, what king David was wearing when he performed for Saul or what Jesus and the Disciples regularly had for dinner; because it's the Bible, and thus chiefly concerned with God's interactions with His people and not everyday humdrum.

Another wrench in the works is, music as it is now (ie" "popular" music) didn't exist then.

 

[EliasEmmanuel]

What lyrics are you listening to?

I suspect "tourniquet". Y'know, the one where she says "My God, my tourniquet, return to me salvation".....

I think this is a situation of misinterpreting the intent and just looking at the words used. In this case, the "violent" imgery is pretty clearly meant to communicate spiritual turmoil, not literal suicide.....

 

[Jedi Penguins]

I support bands (buy CDs) produced under Christian labels

• I'd rather my money be used to further the will of God than the will of man. And Christian labels provide a more meaningful location to direct my funds, as they have taken on the label of Christian, and the ramifications listed earlier.

• I choose not to support bands such as those mentioned above only because what the band receives from a CD purchase. I would still consider a concert or something, as, then, what the band receives is much more proportional to their efforts.

How do you know where the money for the so called "Christian" labels is going? Have you personally witnessed it going to "further the will of God"
I believe many of the bands under the "Christian" label aren't anything more than money hungry people that cannot seem to make it in the real business.
There are so many things done under the Christian label that (in my opinion) is not even that well written, or sung, or made, or whatever. Yet they seem to sell ridiculous amounts. What happened to the quality? I believe in supporting something that is well done, and I happen to like. Not because of the label it falls under.

 

[EliasEmmanuel]

And on top of that, I'd make the conjecture that when music was used in the Bible without praising God or in a joyful setting, there were evil forces at work.

I forgot to mention this in my first reply, but..... it';s worth noting that a great preponderance of the psalms are laments.

 

[*Katie Batie*]

I figure any music is okay to listen to if you could imagine God listening to it with you...so basically what you are saying is that "Twinkle, Twinkle Little Star" or "Happy Birthday" are bad because they are secular...? Not all secular songs are bad...most Christian bands sing quite a few songs that sing about other things than God...

 

[blackwasp]

Metallica -- "Seek and Destroy"

"Scanning the scene in the city tonight,
Looking for you to start up a fight,
There's an evil feeling in our brains,
But it's nothing new, you know it drives us insane.

Running, on our way hiding,
You will pay dying, a thousand deaths.
Searching -- seek and destroy!"

Ha, I wouldn't exactly say that Metallica never released a song with "killing" in it. However, this was an awesome football pregame tune, a rock number from the days when Metallica still wailed!

 

[blackwasp]

I'd rather my money be used to further the will of God than the will of man. And Christian labels provide a more meaningful location to direct my funds, as they have taken on the label of Christian, and the ramifications listed earlier.

Can man's will supercede God's?

Hmm, methinks many artists in the CCM have taken on the label "christian" in the same manner as notorious televangelists.

 

[xtxArchxAngelxtx]

They certainly have.

Metallica certainly talks about killing. Lemme see if I can find it:



Yup. Very violent. Where do they GET these ideas? That song even talks about slavery! I don't think we can blame the band; I think we have to figure out where they got this violent, nasty, story, and consider the source to be responsible for the violent imagery.

There is nothing wrong with talking about killing as long as the context of it is decent.... to me, there is nothing wrong with that song.

It would be like saying that Jesus never cursed then someone saying, yes he did! He said hell a couple times....

 

[xtxArchxAngelxtx]

POD is a christian band ammy lee talks about killing her silf

POD states that they are NOT a christian band, and amy talks about DEALING with killing herself, huge difference.

And if you want to get techincal, POD has a song that talks about death

"TODAY IS A GOOD DAY TO DIE"

Six Sirens by POD and Project 86....

Is that a "bad" song too??????? hmmm.... cause let me tell you the context. They are talking about spiritual warfare in that song and if you wish, I can get the lyrics for ya in just a second if you prefer.

 

[xtxArchxAngelxtx]

Been reading jons911 post...

Granted I support you 100% and used to feel the same way... however I pose a question to you. Do you watch secular movies? Or watch secular TV? If not, then thats awesome, I give you props, but I feel its a standard that is unneeded, but yet if you feel convicted by it, then by all means, hold that standard. However, I feel that you should expect others to hold that same standard when I find it nothing but a personal conviction to you.

I for one listen to a lot of secular music, but I try to keep it balanced with christian music. I even make CD's that have "battles" on it. I will have a good secualr group and put their best songs on the cd then take a good christian group and put their best songs on the same CD.
I also get a good idea of God when listening to secular music when I hear parallels of God or the bible. Linkin park is one great example. I find a tremendous amount of christian parallels in their music, plus I relatate to their music quite well...

As far as cussing goes, I try to avoid that as much as possible. The more cussing, the less I will like it. However, there are some bands that i love but they seem to think they have to cuss in every song, i.e. disturbed or Korn. I love thier music and sound, but I can only listen to so much of it at a time.

Thats all I got for now.