Why is the Bible so hard to understand?

[Bible Highlighter]

The fact remains that the KJV is an English translation, originally created over 400 years ago from the sources available then, upon the orders of a British king to create an authorized (by him) translation. In other words, he created the "official" Protestant Bible of the British empire. So..?

There have been many more English translations created over time, based on better and more sources, coupled with a better understanding, not only of the languages but also of the cultures that produced them.

Simply because a king of a foreign country ordered a translation 410 years ago doesn't mean a thing. It wasn't authorized by God as His Word!

I am grateful that we now have a variety of translations, based on better sources and knowledge, than one created many years ago in a foreign country by authority of a secular king.

No. There are only two Bibles in surviving Christian book stores today. One Bible is purely a Textus Receptus line manuscript Bible (Which is the King James Bible). The other Bible is the Critical Text (Alexandria, Egypt) manuscripts that are clearly inferior (Which is where most of all your Modern Bibles comes from). For they do not have certain doctrines and commands that are good that the KJB has. Also, Modern Bibles also has the devil’s name in them where they don’t belong, and they huge errors and false teachings within them. You simply are unwilling to accept the evidence. The Modern Versions come from Rome or they under the supervision of the Vatican (See Nestle’s and Aland’s 27 edition NT Greek Text). If you are Catholic go right ahead and eat them up. But if you are not Catholic and you disagree with Catholic practices, then you should not make Modern Bibles your final Word of authority. For the King James (Whether it be the pure Word of God or not) is at the very least the most purest Word that we can have in the English language. You can use your human reasoning to try and find fault with His Word, but the problem is that if there is no error in the KJB (According to God) and you attack it, then you are attacking God Himself. This is not good position to be in. Nobody can win a battle against God and win.

 

[Strong in Him]

If you are open to the truth, you would re-examine with an open mind the evidences in my thread for the King James Bible being either the pure Word or the most purest Word we have.

I don't need to be "open to the evidence".
The Bible is God's word, full stop. It reveals God to us, his nature, his ways, his will and his salvation. His word is true, holy and inerrant.

That is what I believe; I, who read the NIV.
This NIV teaches me the Gospel - as does the Good News Bible which is what I was reading when I became a Christian. It teaches me about God, salvation, Jesus, the Trinity, Pentecost, how God wants me to live and that Jesus will return one day. Through reading it, and other Bibles, but not the KJV, I have been born again, filled with the Spirit, have eternal life and believe the Trinity and other Christian doctrines.

If you believe there is a Bible that is "more pure" or "more true" than any other; that is your belief.
I have said, several times, that all major Christian doctrines are the same in all Bibles - in my last post I even pointed pout that John 1:1 in the KJV is identical to John 1:1 in some of the so called "corrupt" Bibles. I am a Christian, just as you are. I am a Trinity believing, Bible affirming Christian, just as you are. I do not read the KJV but I still believe, and teach, the Trinity and that the Bible is God's inspired word.
There is no answer that you can give to that; it's a fact.

I have demonstrated time and again the inferiority of the Modern Translations in regards to doctrine, and commands.

And I have told you that doctrine - of sin, salvation, Jesus' deity, Jesus' death on the cross, resurrection, ascension and future return, and the Trinity, are the same in every Bible.
Clearly you can't refute that.

Modern Bibles attack Jesus,

Modern Bibles proclaim Jesus.
People hear about Jesus, believe, repent, come to him, are saved, born again and blessed by him by reading modern translations; fact.

But again, I am not going to set out to do a back and forth debate with you on this because you simply do not want to see it.

Well no; there's no point, because you can't deny, or refute, the fact that people who don't read the KJV can still be saved, born again, be filled with the Spirit and receive eternal life.
We also believe in the Trinity - even though this is, apparently, taught nowhere except the KJV. We don't read that Bible, yet we believe. Again, that is a fact which cannot be denied or refuted.
Actually, you probably deny it because you can't refute it.

 

[pescador]

One of the most absurd arguments for the KJV is that it alone is the pure word of God. The first problem with this is that suppose the receptor language is not English? Does that mean that, no matter what, people who read a Bible in their own language can never have the word of God, since it doesn't match the KJV exactly?

The second absurdity is: what is meant by the King James Bible? There have been many editions (with revisions) so which one is the supposed pure word of God?

As I have stated before, the KJV translators acknowledged that they were building on earlier English translators and that they expected their translation to be modified over time.

Finally, the most important thing is to look to the author of the book -- God -- without worshiping a particular translation.

 

[Strong in Him]

God’s words are perfect. The moment God speaks words from His own mouth, they are perfect (of course). But God also does compare His words with being purified like silver seven times, too.

No, David, writing a poem, said that the words of the Lord are flawless; they are LIKE, L.I.K.E, silver that has been purified 7 times.
There are some numbers in the Bible that have meaning. One of those is the number 7; the number for God, for completeness, for perfection. So silver which has been purified 7x will be completely pure; perfect. God's words are like that - perfect.
He did not say, or mean, that God's words have to be purified 7 times, nor did he prophesy that thousands of years later, 7 editions of a Bible would be produced that fulfilled that statement.
David himself heard God's word. Solomon heard God's word, Isaiah, Jeremiah and John the Baptist heard God's word - they not only heard it, they received, believed and taught it. God's pure, holy and true word existed long before the KJV. Bibles existed long before the KJV - if they hadn't, the translators would have had nothing to translate the KJV from.

So there has to be a way that this truth is applicable in some way, too.

Yes - God's word is flawless, just like often refined silver.

But you don’t like the idea of His words being like silver purified seven times.

Silver that has been purified 7 times is flawless; God's word is flawless.
Of course I like, and agree with, that fact.
I just don't like, or agree with, the idea that the KJV is the ONLY word of God, and because there were 7 editions made, that fulfils that verse. THE Word of God, Jesus, is the One who fulfils prophecy - not some book translated by humans.

You don’t like the comparison. You want to erase that truth.

Nonsense.
That's a judgment, and it's not true.

But I believe all Scripture is profitable for doctrine.

Good - so do I.

Psalms 12:6-7 establishes the truth of the doctrine of “Divine Preservation of His Word.” So it’s no wonder you don’t get it.

Of course I don't get it - it is a doctrine I have never heard by anyone in my 40+ years as a Christian.
Even people I have known who read the KJV never came up with a theory like that. This is what you don't get - this is your interpretation, and not a commonly held teaching or mainstream doctrine.

The Bible is God's word - holy, true, inerrant.
You read the Bible in the King James version.
I read it in the New International version.
Same God, same Trinity, same Saviour, same Gospel, same way of salvation.

The fault of course is always man. I believe the seven edition comparison here is showing how God works in man’s life (Which is imperfect to begin with). God progressively sanctifies men by the Holy Spirit. It can be a growing process for men to live a holy life by God’s Word. So seeing men are involved in the translation of His Word, their imperfections have put forth the different editions of God’s Word before it was refined perfectly with the circa 1900 Cambridge KJB Edition. Before this point in time, God’s Word perfectly existed in another language (Until the Word would be perfected for the world language we have today - which is English). So when English became the world language, God’s perfect words were ready to meet that point in time. For the English language needed to have a standard in grammar, and in perfecting the printing process (Which led to man’s errors appearing in His Word). God worked with men who are imperfect to refine His Word like silver purified seven times. But again, you can believe as you wish. I know this will not convince you. So go back to your ever changing words found within your Modern Bibles and trust in them if you wish. My Bible is not going to change it’s words like the shifting sands on a beach. I can trust it and I know His words will be preserved for our time forever. For I am not out to convince you. But I speak so as to help those who are looking for the truth (Wherever they may find it).

The fault of course is always man.

Exactly; human interpretation - which is what you are doing.

So seeing men are involved in the translation of His Word, their imperfections have put forth the different editions of God’s Word before it was refined perfectly

So it wasn't refined perfectly in 1611?
Which suggests that no one had God's perfect word before about 1900 - and that suggests that prophets, apostles and the Son of God were preaching God's imperfect word. Even though Jesus is THE Word of God, he was not able to speak God's perfect word?

I know this will not convince you.

Nothing will convince me of your man made theory that the perfect word of God did not exist before the KJV, and does not exist apart from the KJV.
Unless you can show me a Scripture which specifically says otherwise - and Psalms 12:6 is not it.

So go back to your ever changing words found within your Modern Bibles and trust in them if you wish. My Bible is not going to change it’s words like the shifting sands on a beach. I can trust it

I trust the Bible that I read, thank you very much.
Same God, same Gospel, same Saviour, same Spirit, same way of salvation; and you have not proved, and will not be able to prove, otherwise.
It even teaches the Trinity - you know, that doctrine that you claim that people can't believe without the KJV.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

One of the most absurd arguments for the KJV is that it alone is the pure word of God. The first problem with this is that suppose the receptor language is not English? Does that mean that, no matter what, people who read a Bible in their own language can never have the word of God, since it doesn't match the KJV exactly?

The second absurdity is: what is meant by the King James Bible? There have been many editions (with revisions) so which one is the supposed pure word of God?

As I have stated before, the KJV translators acknowledged that they were building on earlier English translators and that they expected their translation to be modified over time.

Finally, the most important thing is to look to the author of the book -- God -- without worshiping a particular translation.

Yes, many people think that the miracles in the Bible are absurd. Believing God preserved His Word is just one of those miraculous things Christians believe alongside other miracles God has done. Also, you see error because you are looking for errors and of course you will only see that because that is what you are looking for. I will believe God’s Word (the KJB) and trust it. You can trust your ever changing Bibles if you like. But I know I have a more sure word of prophecy.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

No, David, writing a poem, said that the words of the Lord are flawless; they are LIKE, L.I.K.E, silver that has been purified 7 times.
There are some numbers in the Bible that have meaning. One of those is the number 7; the number for God, for completeness, for perfection. So silver which has been purified 7x will be completely pure; perfect. God's words are like that - perfect.
He did not say, or mean, that God's words have to be purified 7 times, nor did he prophesy that thousands of years later, 7 editions of a Bible would be produced that fulfilled that statement.
David himself heard God's word. Solomon heard God's word, Isaiah, Jeremiah and John the Baptist heard God's word - they not only heard it, they received, believed and taught it. God's pure, holy and true word existed long before the KJV. Bibles existed long before the KJV - if they hadn't, the translators would have had nothing to translate the KJV from.



Yes - God's word is flawless, just like often refined silver.



Silver that has been purified 7 times is flawless; God's word is flawless.
Of course I like, and agree with, that fact.
I just don't like, or agree with, the idea that the KJV is the ONLY word of God, and because there were 7 editions made, that fulfils that verse. THE Word of God, Jesus, is the One who fulfils prophecy - not some book translated by humans.



Nonsense.
That's a judgment, and it's not true.



Good - so do I.



Of course I don't get it - it is a doctrine I have never heard by anyone in my 40+ years as a Christian.
Even people I have known who read the KJV never came up with a theory like that. This is what you don't get - this is your interpretation, and not a commonly held teaching or mainstream doctrine.

The Bible is God's word - holy, true, inerrant.
You read the Bible in the King James version.
I read it in the New International version.
Same God, same Trinity, same Saviour, same Gospel, same way of salvation.





Exactly; human interpretation - which is what you are doing.



So it wasn't refined perfectly in 1611?
Which suggests that no one had God's perfect word before about 1900 - and that suggests that prophets, apostles and the Son of God were preaching God's imperfect word. Even though Jesus is THE Word of God, he was not able to speak God's perfect word?



Nothing will convince me of your man made theory that the perfect word of God did not exist before the KJV, and does not exist apart from the KJV.
Unless you can show me a Scripture which specifically says otherwise - and Psalms 12:6 is not it.



I trust the Bible that I read, thank you very much.
Same God, same Gospel, same Saviour, same Spirit, same way of salvation; and you have not proved, and will not be able to prove, otherwise.
It even teaches the Trinity - you know, that doctrine that you claim that people can't believe without the KJV.

I am going to strive to move on with you because you are simply not open to hearing any reasons for the KJB being the pure Word of God for today or at least the most purest Word. So I am not going to do a whole back and forth with you forever in order to convince you (When you don’t want to be convinced). I already provided a link for 30 reasons in defense for the KJB. Those who believe God’s Word has been preserved as His Word says can check out the information.

30 Reasons for the KJB.

 

[timothyu]

Look at how the religion keeps changing. Is that related to the book or is changes in the book related to that?

 

[Bible Highlighter]

To the OAO Proponent:

Also, I stated before that I almost lost my faith when I thought for a brief moment that God’s Word might have been in error (i.e. the KJB). For in my early years of my faith: A so called scholar said there was an error in the King James Bible. It almost destroyed my faith. I reasoned if God cannot perfectly preserve His words for me today how can I trust some words within the Bible over others? I don’t have a truth detector machine telling me which words are true or false. But I sided with the fact that God preserved His Word and that I could trust it, and thus… my faith was intact (in the earlier years of my faith). That moment of potential doubt only lasted a half second before God convicted me of the truth to stay the course in trusting in Him and His Word.

However, folks who are trying to convince me to not trust that the King James Bible as the Word of God that I can trust perfectly are trying to get me to lose the faith altogether. That is what you are trying to do if you convince me there is no perfect Word in existence today. Is that what you want? Do you want me to lose the faith in the Lord Jesus Christ and His perfect Word? Is winning an argument really worth it to do that? To destroy a person’s faith in God’s Word and trust in Jesus? Is that what you want? Go right ahead and keep at your attack against God’s Holy Word (the KJB). Just know that to me: It just does not seem like you care about my faith or others who are like me. You want to prove you are right. You want your ever changing bibles that keep changing every few years to say something a little different. Go right ahead and keep pushing such nonsense if you like. I reject it whole heartedly and I will stand upon God’s Holy Word (the KJB) and speak it boldly with authority and power. For I have a Bible that stands above the other Modern Bibles and it does not change every few years.

 

[pescador]

Look at how the religion keeps changing. Is that related to the book or is changes in the book related to that?

Those are two entirely separate subjects.

1) Why do you say that the religion keeps changing? Probably better in another thread...
2) Assuming that religion does keep changing, why is that related to changes in the Bible? The Bible is God's inerrant, pure word. Religion is an invention of men.

 

[timothyu]

Assuming that religion does keep changing, why is that related to changes in the Bible?

You assume there is no connection? Man is traditionally known for redefining good and evil and then self justifying it. So nothing man touches is safe from change.

 

[pescador]

You assume there is no connection? Man is traditionally known for redefining good and evil and then self justifying it. So nothing man touches is safe from change.

That may be your opinion, but that's all it is. Improvements of our English Bibles are a continuous process. There are three reasons: 1) a greater number of source documents than ever before, 2) a greater understanding of the cultures that produced those documents, and 3) the continuous change of our culture, requiring translations to change to fit our language and understanding (way of thinking).

The reason that the King James version is inadequate in the 21st Century is for these three reasons.

 

[Strong in Him]

Not reading your posts anymore on this topic. You are just hitting the disagree button. Moving on because you are simply not open to hearing any reasons for the KJB being the pure Word of God for today

I've heard all your reasons; I disagree.

. So I am not going to waste my time trying to convince you

You can't convince me.

You also can't answer the statements:
i) I believe in the same Triune God, same Saviour and same Gospel as you do.
ii) I believe in the Trinity and yet don't read the KJV.

Even if it was possible for you to answer those statements, I doubt you would - that would mean admitting that the "corrupt" Bibles DO teach the same Gospel, and the Trinity. And you don't want to do that.

 

[timothyu]

Improvements of our English Bibles are a continuous process.

And no matter how much they 'improve' it, people still miss out on the Gospel of the Kingdom because man has taught a preconceived notion to direct their thoughts. Few read it free of the religion that lays claim to it.

 

[pescador]

And no matter how much they 'improve' it, people still miss out on the Gospel of the Kingdom because man has taught a preconceived notion to direct their thoughts. Few read it free of the religion that lays claim to it.

Off topic...

 

[timothyu]

Off topic...

The questionis why is the Bible so hard to understand and that is a reason.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I've heard all your reasons; I disagree.



You can't convince me.

You also can't answer the statements:
i) I believe in the same Triune God, same Saviour and same Gospel as you do.
ii) I believe in the Trinity and yet don't read the KJV.

Even if it was possible for you to answer those statements, I doubt you would - that would mean admitting that the "corrupt" Bibles DO teach the same Gospel, and the Trinity. And you don't want to do that.

Imagine if a person said they believe in the same Triune God, same Jesus, and the same gospel I do and yet they also believed something else that was contrary to the faith like say… hating their neighbor. Would it matter? Yes. Granted, of course, you don’t believe that. But the point is loosely similar. Granted, in your case, you don’t believe in the doctrine of Divine Preservation in the way the KJB Only Christian does. You believe all bibles say the same thing and they don’t say the same thing. On certain things they do, but not in all things. By not reading the KJB, you have a different understanding on many key important truths in His Word. You hold to an ever changing sea of Bibles that alter verses subtly every few years. There is no truly defined nailed down Word of God for you. You have a different understanding on Psalms 12:6–7 because your Psalms 12:6-7 is altered to say something else entirely than the KJB. The doctrine on fasting to cast out persistent demons is not something you cannot claim to believe in because that is removed in many Modern Translations (But yet it is not in the King James Bible). You also have to be the arbiter of truth in determining what words are true between a different sea of Bibles that all say things a little differently amongst each other. You don’t seem to care if the devil’s name is placed in certain Modern Bibles where they don’t belong. So yeah. I take issue with what you believe. The Word is just as much as important as the Lord Jesus Christ because the Bible teaches there is a symbiotic relationship between the Communicated Word and the Living Word.

The Living Word & the Communicated Word.

Many who hold to Modern Translations also doubt that the story of the woman caught in the act of adultery was actually in the Bible. They think because the scholar says it was not found in the old and best manuscripts, it is to be thrown into question. So one’s authority is scholars and not God’s Word. This is the problem I have. It comes down to the scholar that Jesus warned us against. Jesus said beware of the scribes. The scribes are those who tran-scribe the Scriptures. This is the scholar of our day. Yet, many in the OAO camp implicitly trust them.

 

[Strong in Him]

Imagine if a person said they believe in the same Triune God, same Jesus, and the same gospel I do and yet they also believed something else that was contrary to the faith like say… hating their neighbor. Would it matter? Yes. Granted, of course, you don’t believe that. But the point is loosely similar. Granted, in your case, you don’t believe in the doctrine of Divine Preservation in the way the KJB Only Christian does.

There is NO doctrine of the "divine preservation of the KJV", that's just the point.
Someone can be saved without having read the KJV.
A Christian can believe the Trinity without having read the KJV. They can be born again, children of God, filled with the Holy Spirit, serve God and do great things in his name - all without the help of the KJV or the need to believe in its "divine preservation."
You believe this is a doctrine; I get that, and you are entitled to that belief.
You, apparently, came close to losing your faith in our awesome God and Saviour because someone suggested the the KJV might not be perfect. That is sad, but that's how it is and I accept that.

I do NOT accept any statement that the KJV itself is divine and other Bibles are "corrupt"; nor the implication that people are somehow "lacking" in their faith if they do not read the KJV.

You believe all bibles say the same thing and they don’t say the same thing.

I said that all Bibles believe in the same Triune God, the same Saviour, the same way of salvation, the death, resurrection and ascension of Jesus and that he will return one day. I pointed out that all Bibles teach about creation, the fall, Noah, Abraham, David, Isaiah etc etc. Therefore they teach the same - all the same Bible stories and doctrines.
You seem to think that unless every word, punctuation mark is identical to the KJV that they are "corrupt" and lacking in some way. That is not the case.

On certain things they do, but not in all things.

In all the major Christian doctrines - incarnation, ministry of Jesus, sin, separation from God, atoning death of Jesus, resurrection, coming of the Holy Spirit and Christ's return, they do agree. In telling of the history of God's people and OT characters, they do.
There is ONE God, one Gospel, one way of salvation - and it is taught in every Bible.
In another thread you have been insistent that the Gospel is ONLY 1 Corinthians 12:1-4. That passage is in every Bible.

By not reading the KJB, you have a different understanding on many key important truths in His Word.

Such as?
I've asked this before; what Christian doctrine do I not have/believe that KJV readers do?

You hold to an ever changing sea of Bibles that alter verses subtly every few years.

And you are ignoring all the discoveries, manuscripts etc that have been made/used in the last 400 years and insisting that a book that does not have them is still perfect.

In other areas: it was discovered years ago that the earth is round, not flat. People who refuse to accept this discovery and still insist that the earth is flat are, at best, seen as being out of touch/date and mildly eccentric. Many discoveries have been made in medicine; antibiotics, pain relief etc. People who shun these will suffer unnecessarily and may even die because of their refusal to change and accept new discoveries.

You have a different understanding on Psalms 12:6–7 because your Psalms 12:6-7 is altered to say something else entirely than the KJB.

No, I've looked up Psalms 12:6-7 in the KJV on Bible Gateway. I believe what it says - I reject your interpretation.

The doctrine on fasting to cast out persistent demons is not something you cannot claim to believe in

Nonsense.
Of course I believe that that's what Jesus said.

You don’t seem to care if the devil’s name is placed in certain Modern Bibles where they don’t belong.

Again, nonsense.
I haven't addressed this matter because it's pointless. If I asked, you would simply quote a passage from a modern version, compare it with the KJV, say "there you are, they are different", assume that the KJV is perfect because that's your starting point and, when I said "but what does the Greek say?" write a long piece about "OAO" believers, in order to defend the perfection of the "divine" KJV.
So it's pointless doing that - we've been here before.

So yeah. I take issue with what you believe.

And I take issue with the notion that a man made translation could be perfect, divine and better than others.
But we believe the same Gospel, have the same faith and you are a child of God just as much as I am - that is all that's important.

The Word is just as much as important as the Lord Jesus Christ

Jesus IS the Word. Jesus was proclaimed and prophesied in the OT and is taught and quoted in the NT. Jesus is divine, eternal, the 2nd person of the Trinity and has been given the name that is above every name.
The KJV isn't and hasn't.
EVERY Knee will one day bow to Jesus, not the KJV.
Jesus is King, Lord and Saviour, not the KJV.
God - Father, Son and Holy Spirit - is blessed, glorious, divine, all powerful, majestic and so on; the KJV isn't.
Bibles are tools and point people to God so that they can understand and have a relationship with him. We are told to worship God and put him first. NOTHING should stand in the way of this; we worship God, not a particular translation of his word.

Many who hold to Modern Translations also doubt that the story of the woman caught in the act of adultery was actually in the Bible.

It's in my so-called "corrupt" Bible.
Whether it was in the original manuscripts is another question. But if the answer to that was found to be "no, it was added later", you wouldn't accept that - obviously because it would threaten the so-called perfection and divinity of the KJV.

Jesus said beware of the scribes. The scribes are those who tran-scribe the Scriptures.

Guess what? The KJV was translated and transcribed.
Jesus did not have the KJV nor did he speak in KJV English. He spoke Aramaic, which was written down in Greek, later translated into Latin and then English. By whom? Translators and scribes.
It really is a big stretch to say that those who translated, for example, the NIV in the 1970s are the same scribes that Jesus talked about in the first century BC.
Belittling the translators and mocking those who refer back to the original language sounds like a sign of desperation; fear that it could be proved that KJV isn't perfect, which might mean the end of your faith.

Seriously, our faith is in God.
God is perfect and worthy of our worship and our trust; not the KJV.
The KJV should be a tool to help you to know, trust and believe in God - as should the NIV, GNB, NET, RSV and so on. None of them replace God.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

There is NO doctrine of the "divine preservation of the KJV", that's just the point.
Someone can be saved without having read the KJV.
A Christian can believe the Trinity without having read the KJV. They can be born again, children of God, filled with the Holy Spirit, serve God and do great things in his name - all without the help of the KJV or the need to believe in its "divine preservation."
You believe this is a doctrine; I get that, and you are entitled to that belief.
You, apparently, came close to losing your faith in our awesome God and Saviour because someone suggested the the KJV might not be perfect. That is sad, but that's how it is and I accept that.

I do NOT accept any statement that the KJV itself is divine and other Bibles are "corrupt"; nor the implication that people are somehow "lacking" in their faith if they do not read the KJV.



I said that all Bibles believe in the same Triune God, the same Saviour, the same way of salvation, the death, resurrection and ascension of Jesus and that he will return one day. I pointed out that all Bibles teach about creation, the fall, Noah, Abraham, David, Isaiah etc etc. Therefore they teach the same - all the same Bible stories and doctrines.
You seem to think that unless every word, punctuation mark is identical to the KJV that they are "corrupt" and lacking in some way. That is not the case.



In all the major Christian doctrines - incarnation, ministry of Jesus, sin, separation from God, atoning death of Jesus, resurrection, coming of the Holy Spirit and Christ's return, they do agree. In telling of the history of God's people and OT characters, they do.
There is ONE God, one Gospel, one way of salvation - and it is taught in every Bible.
In another thread you have been insistent that the Gospel is ONLY 1 Corinthians 12:1-4. That passage is in every Bible.



Such as?
I've asked this before; what Christian doctrine do I not have/believe that KJV readers do?


And you are ignoring all the discoveries, manuscripts etc that have been made/used in the last 400 years and insisting that a book that does not have them is still perfect.

In other areas: it was discovered years ago that the earth is round, not flat. People who refuse to accept this discovery and still insist that the earth is flat are, at best, seen as being out of touch/date and mildly eccentric. Many discoveries have been made in medicine; antibiotics, pain relief etc. People who shun these will suffer unnecessarily and may even die because of their refusal to change and accept new discoveries.


No, I've looked up Psalms 12:6-7 in the KJV on Bible Gateway. I believe what it says - I reject your interpretation.



Nonsense.
Of course I believe that that's what Jesus said.



Again, nonsense.
I haven't addressed this matter because it's pointless. If I asked, you would simply quote a passage from a modern version, compare it with the KJV, say "there you are, they are different", assume that the KJV is perfect because that's your starting point and, when I said "but what does the Greek say?" write a long piece about "OAO" believers, in order to defend the perfection of the "divine" KJV.
So it's pointless doing that - we've been here before.



And I take issue with the notion that a man made translation could be perfect, divine and better than others.
But we believe the same Gospel, have the same faith and you are a child of God just as much as I am - that is all that's important.



Jesus IS the Word. Jesus was proclaimed and prophesied in the OT and is taught and quoted in the NT. Jesus is divine, eternal, the 2nd person of the Trinity and has been given the name that is above every name.
The KJV isn't and hasn't.
EVERY Knee will one day bow to Jesus, not the KJV.
Jesus is King, Lord and Saviour, not the KJV.
God - Father, Son and Holy Spirit - is blessed, glorious, divine, all powerful, majestic and so on; the KJV isn't.
Bibles are tools and point people to God so that they can understand and have a relationship with him. We are told to worship God and put him first. NOTHING should stand in the way of this; we worship God, not a particular translation of his word.


It's in my so-called "corrupt" Bible.
Whether it was in the original manuscripts is another question. But if the answer to that was found to be "no, it was added later", you wouldn't accept that - obviously because it would threaten the so-called perfection and divinity of the KJV.



Guess what? The KJV was translated and transcribed.
Jesus did not have the KJV nor did he speak in KJV English. He spoke Aramaic, which was written down in Greek, later translated into Latin and then English. By whom? Translators and scribes.
It really is a big stretch to say that those who translated, for example, the NIV in the 1970s are the same scribes that Jesus talked about in the first century BC.
Belittling the translators and mocking those who refer back to the original language sounds like a sign of desperation; fear that it could be proved that KJV isn't perfect, which might mean the end of your faith.

Seriously, our faith is in God.
God is perfect and worthy of our worship and our trust; not the KJV.
The KJV should be a tool to help you to know, trust and believe in God - as should the NIV, GNB, NET, RSV and so on. None of them replace God.

Again, there is no real point to continue this discussion even though want to endlessly discuss it. I am not really interested in talking to you about it if you are so antagonistic towards what I believe God’s Word teaches. You are also able to see the contradictions in your own belief. However, believe as you wish. All I can do is point you to the truth. I cannot force you to see it.

So I am moving on from talking to you on this topic.

So may…

Side Note:

I will make a note to never discuss this topic directly with you again. If I were to address your illogical claims in the future on this topic, I will do so only indirectly as if addressing a crowd, but we are done talking on this topic one on one. At least, I will strive to remember to not discuss this issue with you again. May you be at peace with the Lord.

 

[pescador]

There is NO doctrine of the "divine preservation of the KJV", that's just the point.
Someone can be saved without having read the KJV.
A Christian can believe the Trinity without having read the KJV. They can be born again, children of God, filled with the Holy Spirit, serve God and do great things in his name - all without the help of the KJV or the need to believe in its "divine preservation."
You believe this is a doctrine; I get that, and you are entitled to that belief.
You, apparently, came close to losing your faith in our awesome God and Saviour because someone suggested the the KJV might not be perfect. That is sad, but that's how it is and I accept that.

I do NOT accept any statement that the KJV itself is divine and other Bibles are "corrupt"; nor the implication that people are somehow "lacking" in their faith if they do not read the KJV.



I said that all Bibles believe in the same Triune God, the same Saviour, the same way of salvation, the death, resurrection and ascension of Jesus and that he will return one day. I pointed out that all Bibles teach about creation, the fall, Noah, Abraham, David, Isaiah etc etc. Therefore they teach the same - all the same Bible stories and doctrines.
You seem to think that unless every word, punctuation mark is identical to the KJV that they are "corrupt" and lacking in some way. That is not the case.



In all the major Christian doctrines - incarnation, ministry of Jesus, sin, separation from God, atoning death of Jesus, resurrection, coming of the Holy Spirit and Christ's return, they do agree. In telling of the history of God's people and OT characters, they do.
There is ONE God, one Gospel, one way of salvation - and it is taught in every Bible.
In another thread you have been insistent that the Gospel is ONLY 1 Corinthians 12:1-4. That passage is in every Bible.



Such as?
I've asked this before; what Christian doctrine do I not have/believe that KJV readers do?


And you are ignoring all the discoveries, manuscripts etc that have been made/used in the last 400 years and insisting that a book that does not have them is still perfect.

In other areas: it was discovered years ago that the earth is round, not flat. People who refuse to accept this discovery and still insist that the earth is flat are, at best, seen as being out of touch/date and mildly eccentric. Many discoveries have been made in medicine; antibiotics, pain relief etc. People who shun these will suffer unnecessarily and may even die because of their refusal to change and accept new discoveries.


No, I've looked up Psalms 12:6-7 in the KJV on Bible Gateway. I believe what it says - I reject your interpretation.



Nonsense.
Of course I believe that that's what Jesus said.



Again, nonsense.
I haven't addressed this matter because it's pointless. If I asked, you would simply quote a passage from a modern version, compare it with the KJV, say "there you are, they are different", assume that the KJV is perfect because that's your starting point and, when I said "but what does the Greek say?" write a long piece about "OAO" believers, in order to defend the perfection of the "divine" KJV.
So it's pointless doing that - we've been here before.



And I take issue with the notion that a man made translation could be perfect, divine and better than others.
But we believe the same Gospel, have the same faith and you are a child of God just as much as I am - that is all that's important.



Jesus IS the Word. Jesus was proclaimed and prophesied in the OT and is taught and quoted in the NT. Jesus is divine, eternal, the 2nd person of the Trinity and has been given the name that is above every name.
The KJV isn't and hasn't.
EVERY Knee will one day bow to Jesus, not the KJV.
Jesus is King, Lord and Saviour, not the KJV.
God - Father, Son and Holy Spirit - is blessed, glorious, divine, all powerful, majestic and so on; the KJV isn't.
Bibles are tools and point people to God so that they can understand and have a relationship with him. We are told to worship God and put him first. NOTHING should stand in the way of this; we worship God, not a particular translation of his word.


It's in my so-called "corrupt" Bible.
Whether it was in the original manuscripts is another question. But if the answer to that was found to be "no, it was added later", you wouldn't accept that - obviously because it would threaten the so-called perfection and divinity of the KJV.



Guess what? The KJV was translated and transcribed.
Jesus did not have the KJV nor did he speak in KJV English. He spoke Aramaic, which was written down in Greek, later translated into Latin and then English. By whom? Translators and scribes.
It really is a big stretch to say that those who translated, for example, the NIV in the 1970s are the same scribes that Jesus talked about in the first century BC.
Belittling the translators and mocking those who refer back to the original language sounds like a sign of desperation; fear that it could be proved that KJV isn't perfect, which might mean the end of your faith.

Seriously, our faith is in God.
God is perfect and worthy of our worship and our trust; not the KJV.
The KJV should be a tool to help you to know, trust and believe in God - as should the NIV, GNB, NET, RSV and so on. None of them replace God.

Great post! It should be read by everyone!

 

[pescador]

And no matter how much they 'improve' it, people still miss out on the Gospel of the Kingdom because man has taught a preconceived notion to direct their thoughts. Few read it free of the religion that lays claim to it.

If I understand what you're saying, how do you know what's in a person's mind when they read the Bible? Are you just making a blanket condemnation based on no proof?