Why is "MAGA" offensive?

[Shiloh Raven]

I didn't address it because he later stated that he did not remember Regan using it. After he did, he had it registered for campaign purposes. Stating something falsely that he believes to be true is not lying. It is just simply being wrong. The second reason why I didn't address your comment is because it is a strawman argument that distracts from the main question of the thread. Unless you are suggesting that it is appropriate to "feel offended" of someone wearing a "MAGA" hat because you believe Trump lied about coining it, it has absolutely nothing to do with anything. Are you now satisfied with your response?

I guess it would be fair for me to give him the benefit of the doubt, but I don't really believe him. I think he backpedaled once he was called out about it. And I didn't think it was a strawman argument because I think he did lie about it. He is well known for lying and his lies are well documented too.

 

[SummerMadness]

I don't understand how this question can be asked, it seems as if one has no way of being in someone else's shoes. Making America great "again" implies that there was a time in the past where America was great, but for who? African Americans? Was there a point in history where things were great for African Americans where they were free and lived without racial discrimination? Women? Was there a point where women did not suffer due to sexism or sexual harassment (given the MeToo movement, it's evident that prior to 2017 it was not all peachy)? For immigrants, was there a time where they came to the US and were not mistreated for having a non-white skin color and/or accent?

When you talk about making something happen again, it implies that things were good before, but for a substantial proportion of the population that is not true, which means the phrase does not apply to women and racial minorities (especially African Americans). It's offensive because it is saying, "Your history doesn't matter," because it is quite obvious the past of people fighting for their civil rights wasn't great (else they would not need to fight for their civil rights).

It's quite simple, the phrase is almost exclusive to white people, but white males more specifically.

 

[bèlla]

I am not offended by MAGA. There are few things that offend me. I may not agree with a theology or practice. Or I may feel certain behaviors are evil. But offense is something else.

Sometimes we forget that God lays different burdens on our hearts and we take offense when others don't see a situation as we do or feel a similar degree of passion.

 

[USincognito]

Would you then consider someone to be "living in a delusional fantasy world" when they feel offended for someone merely wearing a "MAGA" hat without the person ever saying a word?

I'm still waiting for evidence that beyond a handful of anecdotes anyone is "offended" by MAGA hats. My impression is that people who are offended by the implications behind MAGA the slogan would be mostly bemused if they saw a MAGA hat in the wild.

 

[Shiloh Raven]

I don't understand how this question can be asked, it seems as if one has no way of being in someone else's shoes. Making America great "again" implies that there was a time in the past where America was great, but for who? African Americans? Was there a point in history where things were great for African Americans where they were free and lived without racial discrimination? Women? Was there a point where women did not suffer due to sexism or sexual harassment (given the MeToo movement, it's evident that prior to 2017 it was not all peachy)? For immigrants, was there a time where they came to the US and were not mistreated for having a non-white skin color and/or accent?

When you talk about making something happen again, it implies that things were good before, but for a substantial proportion of the population that is not true, which means the phrase does not apply to women and racial minorities (especially African Americans). It's offensive because it is saying, "Your history doesn't matter," because it is quite obvious the past of people fighting for their civil rights wasn't great (else they would not need to fight for their civil rights).

It's quite simple, the phrase is almost exclusive to white people, but white males more specifically.

Well said, SummerMadness. I couldn't agree more.

 

[Dave-W]

It's quite simple, the phrase is almost exclusive to white people, but white males more specifically.

I would go even a bit farther: white males of English/Scottish decent.

Not white Irish
Not white Italians
Not white Polish
Not white Russians

Marginally ok for white Germans (except during the wars)

 

[Shiloh Raven]

I'm still waiting for evidence that beyond a handful of anecdotes anyone is "offended" by MAGA hats. My impression is that people who are offended by the implications behind MAGA the slogan would be mostly bemused if they saw a MAGA hat in the wild.

I'm not offended by the MAGA hat, as I tried to explain in my responses yesterday. But I am offended by the implication behind the MAGA slogan. Sure America was great for white people, particularly the white man (the WASP to be more specific), but it was absolutely terrible for Native Americans, black people and other minorities. Women haven't always had it 'great' in America either, to be honest.

 

[SummerMadness]

What if people started to believe that "Hope and Change" was a subliminal message to "Black Power"? To me, this example is no different than what is happening today with "Make America Great Again".

That's a non sequitur, please explain, in a grammatical way, how "Hope and Change" is related to "Black Power"? You're just tossing out phrases now and associating the first Black president with the Black Power movement without a shred of explanation. People in this thread have spoken about the "MAGA" phrase, pointing to specific language in that phrase and what it means and implies.

I would go even a bit farther: white males of English/Scottish decent.

Not white Irish
Not white Italians
Not white Polish
Not white Russians

Marginally ok for white Germans (except during the wars)

Agreed. When they were immigrants they were treated horribly, but eventually became White (I think the world wars shifted the attitudes about the different races of European)

 

[bèlla]

Question..

In your opinion, does empathy require the cessation of truth? Is the individual who empathizes with the other's suffering required to deny or repress their experiences if they were not identical to the other person?

I am not supporting a lack of tact in that comment. But curious about how you'd broach it.

 

[SummerMadness]

I'm not offended by the MAGA hat, as I tried to explain in my responses yesterday. But I am offended by the implication behind the MAGA slogan. Sure America was great for white people, particularly the white man (the WASP to be more specific), but it was absolutely terrible for Native Americans, black people and other minorities. Women haven't always had it 'great' in America either, to be honest.

Offended by MAGA hats is a straw man. Nonetheless, we know there are stories where a person is attacked with a MAGA hat, so the people pushing that false narrative (offended by hats) jump on that and ignore the critiques of the phrase and what it means specifically.

 

[Speedwell]

I would go even a bit farther: white males of English/Scottish decent.

Not white Irish
Not white Italians
Not white Polish
Not white Russians

Marginally ok for white Germans (except during the wars)

Actually, the Germans had it pretty good here in the Midwest. There were whole towns where business and government were conducted in German, where German ethnic holidays were celebrated, with a German press and even with German as the instructional language in public schools, a situation which lasted for generations as the immigrant communities gradually integrated with the larger society.

That is not part of the "greatness" which the present administration intends to bring back, especially not for Hispanic immigrants.

 

[Colter]

Simple question.

Why was this Okay, and this is offensive?
View attachment 249727 View attachment 249728

This wasn't ok then either. They hated Reagan, Bush 1,2 and would hate any Republican! The one difference with Trump is that he fights back, they are unable to control him which makes them even more hateful than normal. His presence has exposed the hatred that the Left has always had towards anything that seems conservative.

 

[LoAmmi]

This wasn't ok then either. They hated Reagan, Bush 1,2 and would hate any Republican! The one difference with Trump is that he fights back, they are unable to control him which makes them even more hateful than normal. His presence has exposed the hatred that the Left has always had towards anything that seems conservative.

Yes, because the right did not hate Clinton, Obama, Carter....We've been splintered for a while. Maybe since the Civil Rights Act broke apart the Democratic party.

 

[TheBear]

At what point is crap like this trolling?

It's quite a bit more nuanced. However, it would take too long to spell it out. And even if I did, it would fall on deaf ears in the same manner as trying to dissuade a religious person from their beliefs. So, I decided to save unnecessary time and effort, by boiling it down to - ORANGE MAN BAD.

Hope that helps.

 

[Dave-W]

Actually, the Germans had it pretty good here in the Midwest. There were whole towns where business and government were conducted in German, where German ethnic holidays were celebrated, with a German press and even with German as the instructional language in public schools, a situation which lasted for generations as the immigrant communities gradually integrated with the larger society.

I know that. I grew up near the “German District” of western Michigan. I have been in towns were no English was spoken as late as the 1970s. And many of them were rounded up and held in camps during WW2 just like the Japanese. It was not as widespread since there was in most of the country a lot of intermarriage. But they did make sure that those in WW2 of German decent did NOT go to Europe.

 

[Colter]

Yes, because the right did not hate Clinton, Obama, Carter....We've been splintered for a while. Maybe since the Civil Rights Act broke apart the Democratic party.

True, we've been very divided since Satan fooled the whole world.

 

[Speedwell]

I know that. I grew up near the “German District” of western Michigan. I have been in towns were no English was spoken as late as the 1970s. And many of them were rounded up and held in camps during WW2 just like the Japanese. It was not as widespread since there was in most of the country a lot of intermarriage. But they did make sure that those in WW2 of German decent did NOT go to Europe.

I live in Illinois now, but grew up on the Left Coast near a POW camp for Italians in Stockton. These young Italian men were "loaned out" as laborers to Italian farm families in the San Fernando Valley and many of them just melted into the countryside. By the end of the war the camp was almost empty.

(If you want to know what the camp looked like, it was used in the filming of Cool Hand Luke.)

But even so, when I was a kid, Italians weren't considered to be real "white" people.

 

[SummerMadness]

True, we've been very divided since Satan fooled the whole world.

That's a rather interesting way of waving off the breakup of the Democratic Party and the shift of Southern Democrats to the Republicans Party because African Americans secured their legal civil rights.

 

[LoAmmi]

True, we've been very divided since Satan fooled the whole world.

I do not believe this to be true, but that's alright.

 

[USincognito]

It's quite a bit more nuanced. However, it would take too long to spell it out. And even if I did, it would fall on deaf ears in the same manner as trying to dissuade a religious person from their beliefs. So, I decided to save unnecessary time and effort, by boiling it down to - ORANGE MAN BAD.

Hope that helps.

Thank you for demonstrating my point.