Why is it ok to be a fat pastor but not a gay pastor?

[parousia70]

According to your source, it was the looser who changed sex so not a representation of human homosexuality where no change of sex occurs and no procreation is possible.

Right... that would be the Penguins.

 

[Neogaia777]

My point more was, and what I thought might make and interesting study was, is that, with say, mammals, it being, for lack of a better word right now, "abnormal", etc, is very much dictated by the environment, etc, and maybe the kinds of changes that would only ever be or only ever exist and/or be present in a "fallen" environment, etc...

And in our case, maybe perhaps our evolution in a fallen environment, etc, or our fallen environment or fallen state growing and/or changing and/or evolving, etc, and us changing due to that, etc, for some of us anyway, etc...

Anyway,

God Bless!

 

[Non-profit Prophet]

The bible clearly states that gluttony is a sin and that the body is a temple of the holy spirit and should be honored.

It would seem then that people who are overweight are clearly in sin (barring medical conditions)

So why is it acceptable to be a fat pastor in sin, but not a gay pastor in sin?

Who are you to judge that a person is fat because of gluttony? Most obesity is not caused by gluttony... and gluttony doesn’t always result in a person being obese. Much of the obesity we see is the result of medical conditions, emotional trauma, or just not knowing how to care for one’s own body. I’ve worked with many obese people, and I will say that the majority just didn’t know how to be healthy... much of the obesity I’ve encountered is actually due to people either not eating healthy, not providing enough water for their bodies to function, and yes, some from trying to lose weight via on trendy diets.

I suggest you not judge others whom you don’t know and learn a little about what actually causes people to gain weight and not be able to lose it. It might help to get a clearer understanding of what “gluttony “ means.

 

[Neogaia777]

Who are you to judge that a person is fat because of gluttony? Most obesity is not caused by gluttony... and gluttony doesn’t always result in a person being obese. Much of the obesity we see is the result of medical conditions, emotional trauma, or just not knowing how to care for one’s own body. I’ve worked with many obese people, and I will say that the majority just didn’t know how to be healthy... much of the obesity I’ve encountered is actually due to people either not eating healthy, not providing enough water for their bodies to function, and yes, some from trying to lose weight via on trendy diets.

I suggest you not judge others whom you don’t know and learn a little about what actually causes people to gain weight and not be able to lose it. It might help to get a clearer understanding of what “gluttony “ means.

Gluttony actually means overeating or an obsession with food and/or a big habit or "addiction to overeating", or eating more than they should, etc, a skinny person can be a "glutton", etc, and a fat person could not be a "glutton", etc, and just like you said, there could be many, many "other reasons" for a person being fat, or fatter, or overweight, etc, but even a skinny person can be a "glutton", etc, if say they have a very high metabolism, etc...

God Bless!

 

[thomas_t]

So why is it acceptable to be a fat pastor in sin, but not a gay pastor in sin?

Actually, it makes more sense to compare the treatment of the one type of deviant sexual behavior with how another type of deviant sexual behavior is treated.
I opened up a thread on this on another board. Enjoy
Discrimination Against Gays - What Would You Base That On?

 

[Non-profit Prophet]

Actually, it makes more sense to compare the treatment of the one type of deviant sexual behavior with how another type of deviant sexual behavior is treated.
I opened up a thread on this on another board. Enjoy
Discrimination Against Gays - What Would You Base That On?

It makes no sense to compare the treatment of one deviant sexual behavior to another. Deviant sexual behavior is just that- deviant. Some seem to think the church more strongly discriminates against gays... perhaps, but because it’s the only deviant sex group that demands acceptance in the church. Adulterers, flashers, and rapists don’t have organizations that are forcing anyone to publicly accept them. They don’t want to be known in the church as equals, as a sexual-identity-driven group, or as people who need to be accepted and understood. In your comment, you alluded to homosexuality as being a deviant behavior... do we really want to pick and choose which deviant behaviors are allowed? What if pedophiles, (most research agrees they were born as such), demand the same considerations because “that’s the way God made them?” After all, not allowing them to be leaders in the nursery would in fact be discrimination, yes? The scripture tells us that discrimination (judging) amongst ourselves keeps us from being judged (discriminated) by God. [1 Cor 11:31]

 

[thomas_t]

I think it does make sense to compare like this.
In conservative Bible interpretation, remarrying for any reason outside sexual deviancy ... is adultery.

rapists don’t have organizations that are forcing anyone to publicly accept them.

It doesn't make sense to compare homosexuality and rape. Rape has victims.
But people who remarry, for that matter, don't have to be forcing anyone in church to publicly accept them. They are accepted, as I know it. Lesbians are not.

They don’t want to be known in the church as equals, as a sexual-identity-driven group, or as people who need to be accepted and understood.

those who remarry for reasons outside of sexual deviancy... are equals as I know it. Gays are not, and this is where I see the discrimination occuring.

What if pedophiles,

Child abuse has victims. It's a crime.
This is beyond comparability, here.

do we really want to pick and choose which deviant behaviors are allowed?

but churches are doing it already allowing for remarried couples that didn't remarry for reasons of sexual deviancy. They are chosen already to fully be members of Christian society, as I know it.
BTW, I'm not calling for them to be driven out.

 

[mmksparbud]

The bible clearly states that gluttony is a sin and that the body is a temple of the holy spirit and should be honored.

It would seem then that people who are overweight are clearly in sin (barring medical conditions)

So why is it acceptable to be a fat pastor in sin, but not a gay pastor in sin?

Well---for one thing. Being fat takes only one person---themselves. Practicing homosexuality---takes 2. So you've got 2 sinners instead of one! God condemns gluttony, however, being fat can be for several different reasons. Not just gluttony. There can be other medical reasons. And you can be fat without being a glutton, mostly due to inactivity, which can be for medical reasons also. It doesn't require many calories to make someone who can't exercise overweight.

1Sa_4:18 And it came to pass, when he made mention of the ark of God, that he fell from off the seat backward by the side of the gate, and his neck brake, and he died: for he was an old man, and heavy. And he had judged Israel forty years.

Poor Eli---he was old and fat, and a High Priest.

 

[Non-profit Prophet]

I think it does make sense to compare like this.
In conservative Bible interpretation, remarrying for any reason outside sexual deviancy ... is adultery.
It doesn't make sense to compare homosexuality and rape. Rape has victims.
But people who remarry, for that matter, don't have to be forcing anyone in church to publicly accept them. They are accepted, as I know it. Lesbians are not.

those who remarry for reasons outside of sexual deviancy... are equals as I know it. Gays are not, and this is where I see the discrimination occuring.

Child abuse has victims. It's a crime.
This is beyond comparability, here.

but churches are doing it already allowing for remarried couples that didn't remarry for reasons of sexual deviancy. They are chosen already to fully be members of Christian society, as I know it.
BTW, I'm not calling for them to be driven out.

You asked that sexual deviancy be compared to sexual deviancy; I did that, now you say they shouldn’t be compared. A bit confusing, but I perceive what you’re trying to do is show that homosexuality is a special kind of sin that should be accepted because of the perception that other sins are ignored also. The difference being that there are no “adulterers advocacy groups,” “pedophile pride parades,” or “flashers fellowship Friday.” Whether there are victims is not the point- the point is sexual deviancy is a sin. Being accepted by your local church does not make it ok, it just means the church doesn’t understand that all sin should be publicly confronted in the church and not tolerated if there is refusal to stop sinning. It doesn’t matter if it’s sex, drugs, stealing, or violence.... sin is sin, but most sin isn’t public and most active sinners are not rallying to be accepted for continuing their sin publicly.

 

[thomas_t]

You asked that sexual deviancy be compared to sexual deviancy; I did that, now you say they shouldn’t be compared.

I didn't think of anyone going as far as to compare homosexuality with crimes. My bad.

Whether there are victims is not the point

now that you've made your comparisons... it becomes my point now. Because these types of comparisons are absolutely wrong!

 

[Non-profit Prophet]

I didn't think of anyone going as far as to compare homosexuality with crimes. My bad.

now that you've made your comparisons... it becomes my point now. Because these types of comparisons are absolutely wrong!

Homosexuality used to be a crime, just as adultery used to be a crime. What happens when the other deviant behaviors are no longer crimes? But the comparisons weren’t about which are crimes- it’s completely about whether an active behavior that is blatantly against scripture should be allowed to be practiced among church members. The scripture is clear that those who refuse to turn away from their sins should be expelled from the body of believers.

Don’t misunderstand, I have friends and relatives who are homosexual and I have no bias against them personally or professionally- no different than my friends and family who are/were thieves, drug addicts, liars, adulterers, etc... but if they made their sins public, it is my responsibility to restore them to walk with Christ; if they refuse and continue in their sin, then if two or more people in the church ask them to leave, they must leave. If they honor God’s Word, they will know they must obey scripture. Refusal to leave sin is refusal to be in fellowship with believers who gather solely to honor God. If one does not wish to honor God and His Word, why would they even want to be in church?

 

[bbbbbbb]

Homosexuality used to be a crime, just as adultery used to be a crime. What happens when the other deviant behaviors are no longer crimes? But the comparisons weren’t about which are crimes- it’s completely about whether an active behavior that is blatantly against scripture should be allowed to be practiced among church members. The scripture is clear that those who refuse to turn away from their sins should be expelled from the body of believers.

Don’t misunderstand, I have friends and relatives who are homosexual and I have no bias against them personally or professionally- no different than my friends and family who are/were thieves, drug addicts, liars, adulterers, etc... but if they made their sins public, it is my responsibility to restore them to walk with Christ; if they refuse and continue in their sin, then if two or more people in the church ask them to leave, they must leave. If they honor God’s Word, they will know they must obey scripture. Refusal to leave sin is refusal to be in fellowship with believers who gather solely to honor God. If one does not wish to honor God and His Word, why would they even want to be in church?

I often wonder that - why blatant sinners desire to maintain their sin and remain in church. It reminds me of a Unitarian/Universalist minister who once defined his members as religious folks who haven't kicked the habit, although they are thorough-going atheists (his words, not mine).

 

[thomas_t]

no different than my friends and family who are/were thieves, drug addicts, liars, adulterers, etc..

thieves have victims. Bad analogy. Liars also victimize in my opinion. So do adulterers.

if they refuse and continue in their sin, then if two or more people in the church ask them to leave, they must leave.

do you know a church where remarried couples are asked to leave? I know none. I'm thinking of couples who remarry without claiming to have suffered adultery from their former spouse.
Remarried couples are the chouchous, and lesbians are the wicked... here is the discrimination, I think.
There is no Bible verse allowing a Christian to be a respecter of persons.

Homosexuality used to be a crime

many things used to be crimes. Not saluting a church procession used to be a crime punished by death - this is at least my interpretation of this story here: François-Jean de la Barre - Wikipedia
Just because something used to be criminalized... it doesn't mean it's a bad thing.

 

[NBB]

thieves have victims. Bad analogy. Liars also victimize in my opinion. So do adulterers.

do you know a church where remarried couples are asked to leave? I know none. I'm thinking of couples who remarry without claiming to have suffered adultery from their former spouse.
Remarried couples are the chouchous, and lesbians are the wicked... here is the discrimination, I think.
There is no Bible verse allowing a Christian to be a respecter of persons.

many things used to be crimes. Not saluting a church procession used to be a crime punished by death - this is at least my interpretation of this story here: François-Jean de la Barre - Wikipedia
Just because something used to be criminalized... it doesn't mean it's a bad thing.

You don't need victims to commit grevious sin against God.

 

[bbbbbbb]

You don't need victims to commit grevious sin against God.

All sin is grievous and all of us, like it or not, are grievous sinners in need of God's grace through faith in Jesus Christ.

 

[NBB]

All sin is grievous and all of us, like it or not, are grievous sinners in need of God's grace through faith in Jesus Christ.

Except we are called to at least recognize and try to leave our sins behind not to embrace them, also there is such thing as sins that are not of death, i'm pretty sure even spirit filled believers sin in a lot of things, but not in 'grevious' sins or of death, because the Holy spirit cannot live with you if you wallow in dirt, so like i said there is grevious sin and minor sins i think.

 

[bbbbbbb]

Except we are called to at least recognize and try to leave our sins behind not to embrace them, also there is such thing as sins that are not of death, i'm pretty sure even spirit filled believers sin in a lot of things, but not in 'grevious' sins or of death, because the Holy spirit cannot live with you if you wallow in dirt, so like i said there is grevious sin and minor sins i think.

It is a great pity that God, in His infinite injustice, failed to designate lists of both types of sins for us, but instead merely fobbed it off by saying, "The wages of sin is death."

 

[NBB]

It is a great pity that God, in His infinite injustice, failed to designate lists of both types of sins for us, but instead merely fobbed it off by saying, "The wages of sin is death."

For example a 'white lie' doesn't have the same gravity, consequences and spiritual damage potential as fornication murder, gay 'activities' etc. Paul talks about sins that are of death and sins that are not of death.

 

[Non-profit Prophet]

There is no Bible verse allowing a Christian to be a respecter of persons.

1 Cor 5:12-13
What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside?
God will judge those outside. “Expel the wicked person from among you.”

(hint: There are other passages of scripture that instruct believers to favor those with faith(conviction); albeit still loving all. Others instruct us to bring people in sin back to the Truth or tell them to leave.)

 

[Non-profit Prophet]

in my opinion

... versus the Word of God...

I’ll admit, there have been times I’ve been tempted to insert my opinion against the scripture, but God’s Word is always the final word.