Why Is It Bad If I Don't Get Vaccinated?

Status
Not open for further replies.

Ponderous Curmudgeon

Well-Known Member
Feb 20, 2021
1,477
944
65
Newfield
✟38,862.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Divorced
NYT is behind a paywall.

However, from a history site:
Cities that passed masking ordinances in the fall of 1918 struggled to enforce them among the small portion of people who rebelled. Common punishments were fines, prison sentences and having your name printed in the paper. In one horrific incident in San Francisco, a special officer for the board of health shot a man who refused to wear a mask as well as two bystanders.

This was far different from the treatment San Francisco’s leaders received when they didn’t comply. At a boxing match, a police photographer captured images of several supervisors, a congressman, a justice, a Navy rear-admiral, the city’s health officer and even the mayor, all without masks. The health officer paid a $5 fine and the mayor later paid a $50 fine, but unlike other “mask slackers,” they received no prison time (not to mention no one shot at them).

Different era, same hypocrisy amongst the political elites as we see today.

Just Like today: Nancy Tomes, a distinguished professor of history at Stony Brook University who has written about public health measures during the 1918-1919 flu pandemic says while there were pockets of resistance to mask-wearing in 1918 and 1919, it was not widespread.

And the orders were short lived. We are nearing 2 years now.

Almost everyone out there, around here anyway, IS wearing a mask - including me - because rational people do NOT need mandates from hypocrites on high (like Tlaib, and Obama's 500 party guests) to tell them to wear masks if it makes sense at the moment.

It's truly perplexing and difficult to relate to those who require external direction and forced compliance.

In 1918 the population of the United States was roughly 103 million, while near the end of 2020 it stood at roughly 330 million, by the way. Adjusted for population increase - which you must do - that means that a large percentage of the population died from the Spanish flu, while Covid killed a small percentage. There were NO antibiotics in 1918 to kill secondary infections, that also killed so many.

"According to CDC statistics compiled by a study in JAMA Covid-19 killed 345,000 people in 2020 and now stands at around half a million as stated by the New York Times. Adjusted for the population growth of over 200 million people and holding the death rates constant, the 1918 Flu would have killed over 2 million people if it occured today, which is more than four times greater than Covid-19."

It mostly wrapped up within a year, from March 1918- March 1919. We are 1.5 years in, and a tiny, tiny percentage are dying, far less than 1%, from most accounts. Like .0014 percent. More die from accidents, heart attacks, and cancer. For the Spanish flu, most of the population was vulnerable - the young, the old, and children. In Covid, mostly the elderly - nearly all of whom have been vaccinated - are vulnerable, as well as those with co-morbidities.

This is not that. We will have to go on as a nation and a world, and we must not do it as a police state or it will never end.


I linked the article in response to the claim that there had not been any mask mandates in the past. And yes most people here are vaccinated and wearing masks again as rational people would with the burst of cases we are seeing even though it is not required.
 
Upvote 0

timothyu

Well-Known Member
Dec 31, 2018
22,550
8,436
up there
✟307,482.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
And today we have snowflakes whining that businesses won't let them endanger their employees and customers by not wearing a mask.
I saw this sign today... 'Just because you are offended, doesn't mean that you are right'
 
Upvote 0

Fr. Appletree

Priest of The Society of St. Pius V
Jun 24, 2021
494
395
34
Williamsburg
✟11,875.00
Country
United States
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Celibate
I saw this sign today... 'Just because you are offended, doesn't mean that you are right'

And other businesses refuse service for the masked and the vaccinated. Just try getting a cab in St. Louis if you do such things.
 
Upvote 0

The Barbarian

Crabby Old White Guy
Apr 3, 2003
26,224
11,447
76
✟368,240.00
Country
United States
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Libertarian
And other businesses refuse service for the masked and the vaccinated. Just try getting a cab in St. Louis if you do such things.

You can't get a cab in St. Louis, if you're vaccinated? How would they know? (Barbarian checks)

Turns out "YO Transportation!" won't take vaccinated or masked customers. Regular cab companies in the area, however, will. Apparently, the owner, Charlie Bullington has figured out how to tell if someone is vaccinated by looking at them.

Which is no crazier than Jewish Space Lasers or Italian vote hacking satellites, I suppose.
 
Upvote 0

Fr. Appletree

Priest of The Society of St. Pius V
Jun 24, 2021
494
395
34
Williamsburg
✟11,875.00
Country
United States
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Celibate
You can't get a cab in St. Louis, if you're vaccinated? How would they know? (Barbarian checks)

Turns out "YO Transportation!" won't take vaccinated or masked customers. Regular cab companies in the area, however, will. Apparently, the owner, Charlie Bullington has figured out how to tell if someone is vaccinated by looking at them.

Which is no crazier than Jewish Space Lasers or Italian vote hacking satellites, I suppose.

Less crazy than anything the Covid fascists are spewing.
 
Upvote 0

The Barbarian

Crabby Old White Guy
Apr 3, 2003
26,224
11,447
76
✟368,240.00
Country
United States
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Libertarian
And yes most people here are vaccinated and wearing masks again as rational people would with the burst of cases we are seeing even though it is not required.

I notice people are masking up in Texas, even as our Governor is trying to force us not to do so. School districts are now openly defying his jihad against masks, and so far, judges have upheld the districts against him.

His latest defeat was at the hands of Dallas Independent School District.
 
Upvote 0

The Barbarian

Crabby Old White Guy
Apr 3, 2003
26,224
11,447
76
✟368,240.00
Country
United States
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Libertarian
Less crazy than anything the Covid fascists are spewing.

DeSantis? He's not doing so well, either...

Florida Mayors Defy Ron DeSantis With Mask, Vaccine Mandates
Florida Mayors Defy Ron DeSantis With Mask, Vaccine Mandates | HuffPost


DeSantis has since surrendered on the vaccine issue, urging people to get vaccinated. Let's hope he's not too late. The DeSantis surge of the virus in Florida is accelerating. Already, deaths are growing at an increasing rate.
Florida COVID: 2,827,450 Cases and 39,934 Deaths - Worldometer
 
Upvote 0

RestoreTheJoy

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Jul 13, 2018
5,153
1,654
Passing Through
✟458,124.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
I notice people are masking up in Texas, even as our Governor is trying to force us not to do so. School districts are now openly defying his jihad against masks, and so far, judges have upheld the districts against him.

His latest defeat was at the hands of Dallas Independent School District.
That is a false assertion. The governor is NOT "trying to force us not to do so (mask up)". The governor merely is against MANDATES to wear masks, which is an entirely separate concept. No mandate does NOT mean "no one can wear a mask".

Wear the mask. No one is stopping you. No one is forcing you not to wear a mask.
 
Upvote 0

The Barbarian

Crabby Old White Guy
Apr 3, 2003
26,224
11,447
76
✟368,240.00
Country
United States
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Libertarian
That is a false assertion.

No. It's a matter of public record. Governor Greg issued an illegal command to keep Dallas Independent School District from protecting children against COVID-19 by masking. And accordingly, a judge shut him down.

The governor merely is against MANDATES to wear masks

It's O.K. to oppose masks, even O.K. to oppose requirements to wear them. Abbot crossed the line when he attempted to stop the district from protecting those children. And the court took appropriate action.
 
Upvote 0

RestoreTheJoy

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Jul 13, 2018
5,153
1,654
Passing Through
✟458,124.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
No. It's a matter of public record. Governor Greg issued an illegal command to keep Dallas Independent School District from protecting children against COVID-19 by masking. And accordingly, a judge shut him down.



It's O.K. to oppose masks, even O.K. to oppose requirements to wear them. Abbot crossed the line when he attempted to stop the district from protecting those children. And the court took appropriate action.
You do not seem to understand the difference between banning mask mandates and banning mask wearing.

No one is banned from wearing a mask. The schools are ordered not to compel or force students to wear masks. They are still free to wear them if they or their parents want them to.

It's simply a matter of who has the power, not whether one can wear a mask or not, as so many seem to be misrepresenting. Abbott says the power remains with the parents, and not the government entity.

He is correct.

Wear the mask! Have your child wear the mask.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

The Barbarian

Crabby Old White Guy
Apr 3, 2003
26,224
11,447
76
✟368,240.00
Country
United States
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Libertarian
You do not seem to understand the difference between banning mask mandates and banning mask wearing.

We all get that. What happened was the governor overstepped the legal limits on his power, and the court shut him down. Dallas ISD has every right to make safety rules to protect their children. Parents can chose to expose their children to danger if they like, but they don't have the right to expose others to danger.

Like Trump, who declared he could do whatever he wanted, Abbot thought he could get away with governing by decree. And he got his hand slapped for it.
 
Upvote 0

RestoreTheJoy

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Jul 13, 2018
5,153
1,654
Passing Through
✟458,124.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
We all get that. What happened was the governor overstepped the legal limits on his power, and the court shut him down. Dallas ISD has every right to make safety rules to protect their children. Parents can chose to expose their children to danger if they like, but they don't have the right to expose others to danger.

Like Trump, who declared he could do whatever he wanted, Abbot thought he could get away with governing by decree. And he got his hand slapped for it.
Citation for that Court case where he got "his hand slapped"? Not seeing where a Court invalidated Abbott's EO. Maybe I am just missing it. Just seeing that a number of organizations are defying the EO and issuing mandates anyway.

Editied to add: Oh, I see a judge will issue an order today. It will be appealed most likely.

Dallas County Judge to Issue Emergency Order Challenging Abbott's Ban on Mask Mandates
 
Upvote 0

The Barbarian

Crabby Old White Guy
Apr 3, 2003
26,224
11,447
76
✟368,240.00
Country
United States
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Libertarian
Oh, I see a judge will issue an order today. It will be appealed most likely.

Of course. We can't go protecting schoolkids, can we? No wonder people are fleeing the republican party.
‘There’s Nothing Left’: Why Thousands of Republicans Are Leaving the Party
Voting registration data indicates a stronger-than-usual flight from the G.O.P.
‘There’s Nothing Left’: Why Thousands of Republicans Are Leaving the Party

BTW, it's not the first time he lost that battle:
March 26, 2021
Texas Judge Says Austin Can Require Masks Despite State Ending COVID-19 Mandates
Texas Judge Says Austin Can Require Masks Despite State Ending COVID-19 Mandates


Likely, it won't be the last. Abbott has lost control of the issue, and more local governments are likely to be defying his attempts to rule by decree.


 
Upvote 0

RestoreTheJoy

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Jul 13, 2018
5,153
1,654
Passing Through
✟458,124.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Of course. We can't go protecting schoolkids, can we? No wonder people are fleeing the republican party.
‘There’s Nothing Left’: Why Thousands of Republicans Are Leaving the Party
Voting registration data indicates a stronger-than-usual flight from the G.O.P.
‘There’s Nothing Left’: Why Thousands of Republicans Are Leaving the Party

BTW, it's not the first time he lost that battle:
March 26, 2021
Texas Judge Says Austin Can Require Masks Despite State Ending COVID-19 Mandates
Texas Judge Says Austin Can Require Masks Despite State Ending COVID-19 Mandates


Likely, it won't be the last. Abbott has lost control of the issue, and more local governments are likely to be defying his attempts to rule by decree.
School kids are not getting this virus with substantial symptoms in any substantial numbers. They mainly get cold symptoms. This isn't about protecting the kids.

I'm not a Republican, so that part is irrelevant.

We shall see. The inmates won't run the asylum forever.

We, the people should make our choices, not the ruling class imposing dictates from on high.

Even the mask mandate ban is widely misunderstood, as if the governors were saying that you CANNOT wear a mask. Sure you can. Do what you think you should do. Tell your kids to do the same.

Most around here anyway are doing everything recommended, even wearing masks even though there are no requirements to do so here. Just recommendations, as it should be.
 
Upvote 0

loveofourlord

Newbie
Feb 15, 2014
8,127
4,530
✟270,469.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
School kids are not getting this virus with substantial symptoms in any substantial numbers. They mainly get cold symptoms. This isn't about protecting the kids.

I'm not a Republican, so that part is irrelevant.

We shall see. The inmates won't run the asylum forever.

We, the people should make our choices, not the ruling class imposing dictates from on high.

Even the mask mandate ban is widely misunderstood, as if the governors were saying that you CANNOT wear a mask. Sure you can. Do what you think you should do. Tell your kids to do the same.

Most around here anyway are doing everything recommended, even wearing masks even though there are no requirements to do so here. Just recommendations, as it should be.

Except that in some places kids are getting RSV and covid which is a bad combination, and some areas are running out of pedatric ICU's.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

The Barbarian

Crabby Old White Guy
Apr 3, 2003
26,224
11,447
76
✟368,240.00
Country
United States
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Libertarian
School kids are not getting this virus with substantial symptoms in any substantial numbers. They mainly get cold symptoms. This isn't about protecting the kids.

Officials split on masking children in schools as pediatric hospitals fill up with Covid-19 patients
Florida children's hospitals are overwhelmed with coronavirus cases, expert says - CNN


Fort Worth, TX school trustees just reversed course, electing to defy Gov. Abbot and require masks after a parent revolt against sending their kid into unprotected schools:
FORT WORTH, Texas — Shifting gears from a previous decision, Fort Worth ISD Superintendent Kent P. Scribner on Tuesday during a special board meeting announced a mask mandate for all students, employees and visitors.

The mandate goes into effect immediately for all indoor instruction and activities.

Fort Worth ISD is the latest school district to ignore Gov. Greg Abbott’s executive order banning state-funded entities from implementing mask mandates. The district is scheduled to reopen to 100% in-person instruction on Monday, August 16.

The school district also said masks will also be required at all district-related indoor activities and on all school buses.

Additionally, FWISD said it will perform contact tracing and notification of COVID cases as appropriate.
Fort Worth ISD will implement its own mask mandate

No one knows exactly how many people who've had COVID-19 end up being long haulers. One study suggests that as many as 52% of teens and young adults between ages 16 and 30 may experience lingering symptoms 6 months after having COVID. And the United Kingdom Office for National Statisics reports that that nearly 13% of children age 2 to 11 years old and 14.5% of children age 12 to 16 still experienced symptoms after 5 weeks.

What we do know is that long-haul COVID can happen even in people who had mild or no symptoms of COVID-19. The symptoms they experienced during the acute infection may not go away, even long after their infection is gone.
Long-Haul COVID-19 in Children and Teens
 
Upvote 0

RestoreTheJoy

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Jul 13, 2018
5,153
1,654
Passing Through
✟458,124.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Officials split on masking children in schools as pediatric hospitals fill up with Covid-19 patients
Florida children's hospitals are overwhelmed with coronavirus cases, expert says - CNN

I've seen it all. Let's look at real numbers instead of CNN histrionic language about hospitals "filling up" and surges and "how overwhelmed" hospitals are.

How many child patients are hospitalized because of COVID (not because of co-morbidities who also happen to test positive). What percentage of the population of Florida and what ages?

Ever noticed they like to leave numbers out, and refuse to break out Covid-only deaths to those who were actually hospitalized for other reasons and also tested positive for Covid?

142 in Texas. 135 in Florida, as of August 8. "Only Texas reported a higher total number of pediatric patients in hospitals with confirmed COVID-19 on Tuesday — 142 children — compared to 135 in Florida."

Florida children’s hospitals see pediatric COVID cases surging

Population of Florida children 17 and under: 3,120,483

Population of Texas children 17 and under: 3.5 million (rounded)

So the percentage of children hospitalized in Florida for Covid (or maybe for any reason and also tested positive for Covid, because we don't know): 0.000043

Percentage of children hospitalized in Texas for Covid (or for any reason and also had Covid, because we don't know): 0.000040

So while we want NO children hospitalized or sick anywhere, of course, more die of car accidents and infections every year. Fatality Facts 2019: State by state

We have to use some perspective here.

“CDC experts have described the 2017-2018 season as a high severity season, with influenza-like-illness remaining at or above baseline for 19 consecutive weeks, record-breaking flu hospitalization rates, and elevated pneumonia and influenza mortality for 16 weeks,” the CDC said.

172 kids died, tragically. We didn't shut down the country, though.
 
Upvote 0

The Barbarian

Crabby Old White Guy
Apr 3, 2003
26,224
11,447
76
✟368,240.00
Country
United States
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Libertarian
I've seen it all. Let's look at real numbers instead of CNN histrionic language about hospitals "filling up" and surges and "how overwhelmed" hospitals are.

That excuse won't fly. From the link:
In Florida, which has the second-highest rate of new cases per capita after Louisiana, children's hospitals and staff are "overwhelmed," said Dr. Aileen Marty, an infectious disease expert at Florida International University.

You want to tell us that she's lying, too?

"We have not seen kids pile into pediatric ICUs across the South like we're seeing right now," Dr. Peter Hotez, dean of the National School of Tropical Medicine at Baylor College of Medicine, told CNN on Friday.

You want to claim he's lying? At some point, you've got to accommodate the reality. How about now?

We have to use some perspective here.

Yes. How many dead children would it take for you to wear a mask and get immunized? That's not a rhetorical question. And notice that long-haul symptoms are turning up in kids who had just a mild infection. Does that matter enough to make a difference?

Parents think so. But they're emotionally involved, aren't they?

172 kids died, tragically. We didn't shut down the country, though.

How about just wearing a mask and getting immunized? It's not just children, but it seems particularly callous for people to pretend they don't count enough to do so.

 
  • Agree
Reactions: Job 33:6
Upvote 0

Justin-H.S.

Member
May 8, 2020
1,400
1,238
The Shire
✟115,626.00
Country
United States
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Married
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

The Barbarian

Crabby Old White Guy
Apr 3, 2003
26,224
11,447
76
✟368,240.00
Country
United States
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Libertarian
The extreme right agenda succinctly expressed:

Children are pretty based, which is why we in the Government must catch them while they’re young and pump them full of our ideology for 8hrs/day. Give us the child and we’ll give you the man-child.
 
Upvote 0
Status
Not open for further replies.