Why is Hell permanent?

[Timothew]

ya take it from me, even bringing up that fact that you dont believe in the orthodox view of hell is enough to get a warning outside of ut.....the cf and staff, consider our views, well, lets just say were ostracized to the ut.

I agree, it isn't a very fair system, but the system belongs to them and they aren't interested in a fair discussion of annihilationism.

 

[Sophrosyne]

I agree, it isn't a very fair system, but the system belongs to them and they aren't interested in a fair discussion of annihilationism.

I haven't seen anything unfair about the discussions of annihilationism in this area of the forum. I think you are less interested in "fair discussion" than having a larger audience to watch you which IMO means you are less interested in discussing than promoting and teaching.

 

[Timothew]

I haven't seen anything unfair about the discussions of annihilationism in this area of the forum. I think you are less interested in "fair discussion" than having a larger audience to watch you which IMO means you are less interested in discussing than promoting and teaching.

And you are only interested in shouting us down and hiding the truth. In THIS area fair discussion is allowed. But annihilationism is considered false just because this the UT area. That's not a fair discussion. If your view was called heretical, you wouldn't like it either. How would you like it if they called you a Satanist or an Occultist merely because you believe what the bible says?

 

[Sadalmelik]

And you are only interested in shouting us down and hiding the truth. In THIS area fair discussion is allowed. But annihilationism is considered false just because this the UT area. That's not a fair discussion. If your view was called heretical, you wouldn't like it either. How would you like it if they called you a Satanist or an Occultist merely because you believe what the bible says?

ya its kinda funny, in a not so funny way, in the 1st couple hundred years of the early church, the eternal hellfire was the minority view, universalism was primarily the accepted view, and annihilationism was also considered. though i am by no means an early church historian, or expert. fast forward 1700 plus years, and this is where we are at. considering human beings though, it really isnt surprising.....is it?

 

[Timothew]

ya its kinda funny, in a not so funny way, in the 1st couple hundred years of the early church, the eternal hellfire was the minority view, universalism was primarily the accepted view, and annihilationism was also considered. though i am by no means an early church historian, or expert. fast forward 1700 plus years, and this is where we are at. considering human beings though, it really isnt surprising.....is it?

No it isn't surprising. I wish people could be decent to each other though. What's the use of saying "I think you are less interested in..."? Everyone who thinks that they have found the truth among falsehoods wants to spread that knowledge. At least, decent people do. As if he knows what I am interested in more that I know what I am interested in.

 

[createdtoworship]

surveys are like the weather they change with the wind, or whatever is popular at the time,,,,further, just because they believe in hell, doesnt mean they believe in eternal hellfire like you, and 3rd, you neglected to address the point that i made, just because it is majority dont make it right, here, ill point it out for you again, since i know your purposefully ignoring it.......that wont make it go away....allow me to go get it.....


"go ahead and keep sticking with the majority rule idea, good luck with that....btw, doesnt the bible infer that the majority of people will not make it to heaven? so much for your majority rule is always right idea.....try again. "


go ahead and start your backtracking now, 'well i meant just christians, and yada yada, there is no persuading anyone with your arguement simply by saying its what a majority of people think and therefore it is correct.......

a majority of people wont make it to heaven, according to the bible, so your arguement fails, try to spin it all you want.

multitude of counselors there is safety.

proverbs

the multitude

multitude

if you wanna be a lone ranger go ahead.

 

[Timothew]

multitude of counselors there is safety.

More and more people are realizing that there is no hell.
If Annihilationism becomes the majority view, of course you will come over to our side?

But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.

 

[createdtoworship]

More and more people are realizing that there is no hell.
If Annihilationism becomes the majority view, of course you will come over to our side?

But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.

I think the spirit of truth will prevail. As it stand most believe wrongly here that annihilation is the predominant view, and it isn't. What is to say you won't be wrong in the future?

 

[Sadalmelik]

multitude of counselors there is safety.

proverbs

the multitude

multitude

if you wanna be a lone ranger go ahead.

dont bother me in the least, Jesus was the lone ranger of His day, how many followed Him in the first hours of His ministry? not considered the lone ranger anymore, is He? so how is being a lone ranger a bad thing exactly. ?

castagate me all you would like.

btw, again you refute none of my claims and positions/points. gotcha

your doing just fine holding your pov.

 

[Sophrosyne]

And you are only interested in shouting us down and hiding the truth. In THIS area fair discussion is allowed. But annihilationism is considered false just because this the UT area. That's not a fair discussion. If your view was called heretical, you wouldn't like it either. How would you like it if they called you a Satanist or an Occultist merely because you believe what the bible says?

I have posted the link to the rules page in the Exploring Christianity forum before when people start debating too... does that mean I am only interested in hiding the truth too? I posted the rules there when two non Christians were posting in a thread there which is not allowed and when two Christians started debating each other instead of addressing the OP which is also against the rules. I have posted the rules when people who are non Christians started threads about abortion in the wrong areas of the forum also.
As for the rest of your gripe... people get attacked in any part of the forum they are in when others disagree with them on dozens of topics. I have had similar experiences in GT and UT....

 

[Sadalmelik]

 

[Timothew]

I think the spirit of truth will prevail. As it stand most believe wrongly here that annihilation is the predominant view, and it isn't. What is to say you won't be wrong in the future?

You said that since most people believe in hell, it's true.
I'm just asking what if that changes? By your logic, since most people believe in hell, we should too. What if there comes a time when most people don't believe in hell? By your logic, you will have to stop believing in hell. If most people believe in jumping off the Brooklyn Bridge, by your logic, you will have to jump too. You said "in a multitude of counselors there is safety." That seems to be Lemming Logic. (I know, Lemmings don't really commit mass suicide, but I'm talking about the proverbial lemming herds that group up and throw themselves into the ocean. "Because of their association with this odd behavior, lemming suicide is a frequently used metaphor in reference to people who go along unquestioningly with popular opinion, with potentially dangerous or fatal consequences." quoting lemming wiki article)

 

[dollarsbill]

We can't say we weren't warned.

Luke 16:22-28 (NASB)
; and the rich man also died and was buried. 23 "In Hades he lifted up his eyes, being in torment, and *saw Abraham far away and Lazarus in his bosom. 24 "And he cried out and said, 'Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus so that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool off my tongue, for I am in agony in this flame.' 25 "But Abraham said, 'Child, remember that during your life you received your good things, and likewise Lazarus bad things; but now he is being comforted here, and you are in agony. 26 ~'And besides all this, between us and you there is a great chasm fixed, so that those who wish to come over from here to you will not be able, and that none may cross over from there to us.' 27 "And he said, 'Then I beg you, father, that you send him to my father's house— 28 for I have five brothers—in order that he may warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.'

Revelation 14:9-11 (NASB)
9 Then another angel, a third one, followed them, saying with a loud voice, "If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives a mark on his forehead or on his hand, 10 he also will drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is mixed in full strength in the cup of His anger; and he will be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. 11 "And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever; they have no rest day and night, those who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name."

Revelation 20:10 (NASB)
10 And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are also; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

 

[Timothew]

We can't say we weren't warned.

Okay, so you are saying it is because of what the bible says and not because most people believe in eternal torment. So even if everyone else didn't believe in eternal torment, you would be the Lone Ranger and believe because of what the bible says.

Now you know how we feel. Even if everyone else believed in eternal torment in hell, since the bible says that those who reject Christ will perish, that's also what I believe.

 

[createdtoworship]

You said that since most people believe in hell, it's true.
I'm just asking what if that changes? By your logic, since most people believe in hell, we should too. What if there comes a time when most people don't believe in hell? By your logic, you will have to stop believing in hell. If most people believe in jumping off the Brooklyn Bridge, by your logic, you will have to jump too. You said "in a multitude of counselors there is safety." That seems to be Lemming Logic. (I know, Lemmings don't really commit mass suicide, but I'm talking about the proverbial lemming herds that group up and throw themselves into the ocean. "Because of their association with this odd behavior, lemming suicide is a frequently used metaphor in reference to people who go along unquestioningly with popular opinion, with potentially dangerous or fatal consequences." quoting lemming wiki article)

I just said that I don't think it will change. See evangelicals are always evangelizing and growing. They are the largest christian group. So it won't change. Unless all the annihilationists start an outreach program.

my theory, if it's new it's not true, if it's true it's not new. The church through the ages has held to this theory so it's pretty good evidence that it's the truth. God wouldn't mess up.

 

[Timothew]

I just said that I don't think it will change. See evangelicals are always evangelizing and growing. They are the largest christian group. So it won't change. Unless all the annihilationists start an outreach program.

my theory, if it's new it's not true, if it's true it's not new. The church through the ages has held to this theory so it's pretty good evidence that it's the truth. God wouldn't mess up.

In the early church, eternal torment was the minority view. ET was the new view then.

 

[Jonathan95]

Okay, so you are saying it is because of what the bible says and not because most people believe in eternal torment. So even if everyone else didn't believe in eternal torment, you would be the Lone Ranger and believe because of what the bible says.

Now you know how we feel. Even if everyone else believed in eternal torment in hell, since the bible says that those who reject Christ will perish, that's also what I believe.

Yes, because of what the bible says, since it's the inerrant Word of God. God is true to his Word and he's not a liar.

 

[Timothew]

Yes, because of what the bible says, since it's the inerrant Word of God. God is true to his Word and he's not a liar.

So why would you have any problem with us not believing that God tortures people forever in hell? The bible says that the wicked perish. God is true to his word and not a liar.

 

[Stealth001]

So why would you have any problem with us not believing that God tortures people forever in hell? The bible says that the wicked perish. God is true to his word and not a liar.

The wicked do perish. But is God's hand too short that He cannot correct them and reconcile them to Himself?

 

[Stealth001]

Do you expect God's Word to change?????????

Eternal punishment is ETERNAL = NEVER ending.

Merely quoting Scripture means nothing. You have to know what it means. Jesus said that the wicked exerience "aionios kolasis"... "eternal CORRECTION". The word "kolasis" is rooted in "kolazo", meaning to prune. To make a planet GROW BETTER.