Why is Hell permanent?

[Sadalmelik]

it's the same thing

hows that?



i clearly pointed out the difference, and instead of refuting with evidence, you just repeat the same mistake?

like i said, your arguements are getting weaker with each post. now were resorting to......'no it isnt', 'yes it is', 'no it isnt', yes it is'.

my post stands, untill you can refute with something better than,
"its the same thing'.

man kills the body, cannot kill the soul
God can kill body and soul.


yet you say its the same thing?


though i wouldnt expect you to acknowledge it now, since youve put yourself in a corner, and there is no logical exit from you contradicting statements.........

go on....start redirecting the conversation....here it comes....

 

[Sadalmelik]

So you are saying He is ABLE to toss in eternal fire but He won't cause He is just trying to scare us? Nice hypocritical God there.

no, thats not what i said, nice try, im used to you guys twisting my words though. reread my post in ENTIRETY, and in context, and stop trying to cherry pick like you do with scripture.

 

[Sadalmelik]

why would He say this?, cause thats exactly what Hes going to do. i know you think God just goes around making idle threats, i dont.
in fact, this verse only bolsters my belief that eternal hellfire is mythical.
so you think that God said this to make people, what, scared? whats more scary than the threat of being burned alive for all eternity?!

'attention humans on earth, i can destroy both body and soul in hell, but you dont need to worry about that cause im going to keep you alive while i burn you for eternity'........sincerely, god.

your posts are unraveling.

ive reposted this for those that apparently missed it. i think ive made my point with it. this would be your pov regarding said scripture, it makes no sense.

and untill you try to explain it any better, instead of just ignoring it, ill assume you have no reasonable response to it.

 

[Sadalmelik]

and Happy Mothers Day to all moms! i hope you have a great and blessed day. God bless.

 

[createdtoworship]

hows that?



i clearly pointed out the difference, and instead of refuting with evidence, you just repeat the same mistake?

like i said, your arguements are getting weaker with each post. now were resorting to......'no it isnt', 'yes it is', 'no it isnt', yes it is'.

my post stands, untill you can refute with something better than,
"its the same thing'.

man kills the body, cannot kill the soul
God can kill body and soul.

yet you say its the same thing?


though i wouldnt expect you to acknowledge it now, since youve put yourself in a corner, and there is no logical exit from you contradicting statements.........

go on....start redirecting the conversation....here it comes....

it's the same thing because the soul without a body doesn't feel pain. No pain receptors with the soul. So the fact that He annihilates the soul means nothing. No fear there. Oh well. Just another part of my body dying. But if there is an eternal hell where both body and soul is caste. then you have the ability to feel pain. If you remember the second resurrection is the resurrection of the damned. Their bodies are caste into the lake of fire.

 

[createdtoworship]

Matthew 10:28

New King James Version (NKJV)

28 And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. But rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

why would God say that if all He was going to do was kill them, or annihilate them anyway???????
????????????????????????????
????????????????????????????????????????

still waiting for a response....(thats has valid logic)

 

[Jonathan95]

I'm glad that you believe what the bible says. That verse says that those who believe on the Son have everlasting life. Do you believe that those who believeth not on the Son ALSO have eternal life being tortured in hell? The bible doesn't say that. That verse says that he that believeth not on the Son shall not see life. That is what I've been saying.

No I don't believe those who don't believe on the son will have eternal life.

If they won't see life, what is the opposite of life? Death, suffering.


Take this verse for example:

John 10:10
The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.

...Kill there means killing the joy of life.

There is a difference between perishing and eternally being on fire. "Everlasting punishment" is a contradiction in terms. It can either be everlasting, or it can be punishment, it can't be both.I'm not superstitious.

Are you saying Jesus contradicts himself? There are no contradictions in the bible.

 

[Sadalmelik]

still waiting for a response....(thats has valid logic)

like ive already stated, God doesnt just throw things out for entertainment, He said things for a purpose...and if one believes in eternal hellfire, as you do, then the verse wouldnt mean anything.....ok, so we both agree that He can destroy both body and soul, so what, how does that change the arguement? or provide support for your theoretical hell, it doesnt in any way. you have not explained that yet. and untill you do, your rhetoric doesnt change anything. so God can kill both body and soul, yet He wont do this, cause Hes going to burn people alive forever, without end....so what was the point of Him saying it? how have you answered this? you havent.

i have, ive stated He said this, that He can kill both body and soul, for a reason and a purpose. that being that if one doesnt come to Him, through Jesus, then this is what they have to look forward to, they shouldnt fear mortal death, as man can do, but they should fear Him, who is able to kill both body and soul. it doesnt say, we should fear Him who can and will keep us alive for eternity and allow us to suffer immeasurable pain....it doesnt say that...

in conclusion, my pov makes sense and lines up with this verse perfectly, and yours just leaves this verse as meaning little if anything, considering you believe the ultimate fate of the wicked is to burn and be kept alive to enjoy it.



the reader can decide whos pov makes more sense, i merely have pointed out why i feel your pov makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.

 

[Soulgazer]

Are you saying Jesus contradicts himself? There are no contradictions in the bible.

LOL, you don't know the bible.

PSA 145:9 The LORD is good to all: and his tender mercies are over all his works.
JER 13:14 And I will dash them one against another, even the fathers and the sons together, saith the LORD: I will not pity, nor spare, nor have mercy, but destroy them.



EXO 15:3 The LORD is a man of war: the LORD is his name.
ROM 15:33 Now the God of peace be with you all. Amen.




MAT 1:16 And Jacob begat Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ.
LUK 3:23 And Jesus himself began to be about thirty years of age, being (as was supposed) the son of Joseph, which was the son of Heli.




JOH 10:30 I and my Father are one.
JOH 14:28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.




ISA 14:21 Prepare slaughter for his children for the iniquity of their fathers; that they do not rise, nor possess the land, nor fill the face of the world with cities.
DEU 24:16 The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the fathers: every man shall be put to death for his own sin.


Shall I go on??????????

It's beside the point. It still can be everlasting, or it can be punishment. The terms are mutually exclusive, like "Genius idiot". Punishment is for correction. If it is eternal, there is no correction. If there is no correction intended, it is not punishment but torture. I don't know about your God, but my God is bigger than that.

 

[createdtoworship]

in conclusion, my pov makes sense and lines up with this verse perfectly, and yours just leaves this verse as meaning little if anything, considering you believe the ultimate fate of the wicked is to burn and be kept alive to enjoy it.


the reader can decide whos pov makes more sense, i merely have pointed out why i feel your pov makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.

I majority of people believe in eternal hell. So now who is making more sense?

proverbs 24:6
For by wise counsel thou shalt make thy war: and in multitude of counsellers there is safety.

 

[Soulgazer]

I majority of people believe in eternal hell. So now who is making more sense?

proverbs 24:6
For by wise counsel thou shalt make thy war: and in multitude of counsellers there is safety.

If everyone decides to jump off the Brooklyn Bridge......................................... Hey, it is Mother's day. One of my moms favorite, may she be at peace.

 

[Sadalmelik]

I majority of people believe in eternal hell. So now who is making more sense?

proverbs 24:6
For by wise counsel thou shalt make thy war: and in multitude of counsellers there is safety.

you have unbiased proof of this, or is this what your pastor preaches?
further, even if you can provide proof, weve already had this arguement about the majority rule in another post, havent we?.....do i need to remind you how that one turned out?

like ive said and will continue to say, your posts are becoming more and more unconvincing, and i see you still avoid my responses like the plague....seriously, i dont blame you, as there is no logical refute to them.

go ahead and keep sticking with the majority rule idea, good luck with that....btw, doesnt the bible infer that the majority of people will not make it to heaven? so much for your majority rule is always right idea.....try again.

 

[createdtoworship]

you have unbiased proof of this, or is this what your pastor preaches?
further, even if you can provide proof, weve already had this arguement about the majority rule in another post, havent we?.....do i need to remind you how that one turned out?

like ive said and will continue to say, your posts are becoming more and more unconvincing, and i see you still avoid my responses like the plague....seriously, i dont blame you, as there is no logical refute to them.

go ahead and keep sticking with the majority rule idea, good luck with that....btw, doesnt the bible infer that the majority of people will not make it to heaven? so much for your majority rule is always right idea.....try again.

the majority of people in the world are not christians. But the majority of christians believe in eternal hell.

71% of people surveyed believed in Hell
76% believed in heaven
5% believed in no life after death.

barna research group

 

[he-man]

I majority of people believe in eternal hell. So now who is making more sense?

proverbs 24:6
For by wise counsel thou shalt make thy war: and in multitude of counsellers there is safety.

Hmmnn up to your old majority rules trick?

Mat 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear Him which is able to destroy both spirit and body in gehenna.

The OT also confirms this:
Job 33:22 Yea, his spirit draweth near unto the grave, and his life to the destroyers.

As does also
Eze 18:4 Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.

Eze 18:20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.

And just in case you have any doubts:
Ecc 9:5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.
6 Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun.

 

[Sophrosyne]

the majority of people in the world are not christians. But the majority of christians believe in eternal hell.

71% of people surveyed believed in Hell
76% believed in heaven
5% believed in no life after death.

barna research group

Using the majority rules is a two edged sword for sure. Typically it is best used for defense in cases where someone is attacking and using examples related to larger groups of people not a singular person or small group that is seen not as "the average guy".

 

[BobRyan]

If the OP wants a full discussion, please post in Unorthodox Theology. In this section of the forum, only the traditional answer is permitted.

That is not correct. Opinions and topics need to be sincere and honest - but do not need to fit a certain bias. The subject itself needs to fit the forum where it is hosted and if the forum is limited to a certain denomination then only members of that denomination may post.

But just as you can be a methodist or Baptist responding to a topic posted on Methodist or Baptist forums in a way that does not have 100% approval (and you are still welcome to post), so in general areas like "Christian theology" you may hold a Biblically sound view of a valid subject for that area of the board that does not have 100% support by all posters on that thread.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

Hmmnn up to your old majority rules trick?

Mat 10:28And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear Him which is able to destroy both spirit and body in gehenna.

The OT also confirms this:
Job 33:22 Yea, his spirit draweth near unto the grave, and his life to the destroyers.

As does also
Eze 18:4 Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.

Eze 18:20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.

Excellent Bible references. They all speak of what happens to both body and soul in fiery hell of Matt 10:28, in the Lake of Fire of Rev 20.

And just in case you have any doubts:

Ecc 9:5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.
6 Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun.

That is a good Bible reference speaking about the "sleep" that we read about in John 11 and in 1Thess 4 - that happens at the first death. The one that both the righteous and the wicked suffer.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[Sophrosyne]

That is not correct. Opinions and topics need to be sincere and honest - but do not need to fit a certain bias. The subject itself needs to fit the forum where it is hosted and if the forum is limited to a certain denomination then only members of that denomination may post.

But just as you can be a methodist or Baptist responding to a topic posted on Methodist or Baptist forums in a way that does not have 100% approval (and you are still welcome to post), so in general areas like "Christian theology" you may hold a Biblically sound view of a valid subject for that area of the board that does not have 100% support by all posters on that thread.

in Christ,

Bob

Actually he was correct, as to discuss a non permanent hell is going to sooner or later include no hell at all which is what those who believe in annihilationism advocate. As per forum rules that topic cannot be discussed in but the UT area of the forums.
http://www.christianforums.com/rules/#faq_rule_0
scroll down after the statement of faith to see topics that are only to be discussed here in UT and nowhere else.

 

[Sadalmelik]

the majority of people in the world are not christians. But the majority of christians believe in eternal hell.

71% of people surveyed believed in Hell
76% believed in heaven
5% believed in no life after death.

barna research group

surveys are like the weather they change with the wind, or whatever is popular at the time,,,,further, just because they believe in hell, doesnt mean they believe in eternal hellfire like you, and 3rd, you neglected to address the point that i made, just because it is majority dont make it right, here, ill point it out for you again, since i know your purposefully ignoring it.......that wont make it go away....allow me to go get it.....


"go ahead and keep sticking with the majority rule idea, good luck with that....btw, doesnt the bible infer that the majority of people will not make it to heaven? so much for your majority rule is always right idea.....try again. "


go ahead and start your backtracking now, 'well i meant just christians, and yada yada, there is no persuading anyone with your arguement simply by saying its what a majority of people think and therefore it is correct.......

a majority of people wont make it to heaven, according to the bible, so your arguement fails, try to spin it all you want.

 

[Sadalmelik]

Actually he was correct, as to discuss a non permanent hell is going to sooner or later include no hell at all which is what those who believe in annihilationism advocate. As per forum rules that topic cannot be discussed in but the UT area of the forums.
http://www.christianforums.com/rules/#faq_rule_0
scroll down after the statement of faith to see topics that are only to be discussed here in UT and nowhere else.

ya take it from me, even bringing up that fact that you dont believe in the orthodox view of hell is enough to get a warning outside of ut.....the cf and staff, consider our views, well, lets just say were ostracized to the ut.