Why is fornication bad?

[JesusWalks78]

You seem to be hung up on physical harm. As someone pointed out, non-physical harm is inherent in lying and stealing. How can you steal from someone and not harm them?

So the question is meaningless because it is not possible to steal without harming someone. If there is no harm, it isn't really stealing.

Lets say that you stole a diamond ring from your friends wife while they were at work.

On the way home from work they both died in a MVA.....they didnt have a chance to find out that you had stolen, so they didnt get a chance to get hurt...does that still make your stealing right?

also no other family members knew about this ring because they had just purchased it and hadnt told anyone about it or shown anyone yet.

 

[JGG]

Lets say that you stole a diamond ring from your friends wife while they were at work.

On the way home from work they both died in a MVA.....they didnt have a chance to find out that you had stolen, so they didnt get a chance to get hurt...does that still make your stealing right?

also no other family members knew about this ring because they had just purchased it and hadnt told anyone about it or shown anyone yet.

Would you consider the ring to be the property of the family had you not stolen it? I would say yes, it interferes with autonomy. By taking the ring, you have decided for them that the ring does not belong to them, without any authority, and without giving them an option to consider the matter.

Let me change the hypothetical...had the couple decided to give you the diamond ring upon arriving home, but died on the way...and you "stole" what would have been yours anyway, without the family knowing about the matter at all...is it still unethical?

 

[Lanakila]

Why do you need a study???? Real life experience is a the best teacher.

The truth is that fornication eventually leads to people either lying about, or concealing, what they have done. They can't be honest about what they have done without harming someone else, and if they lie about it ,or conseal it, they harm themselves. There is no way to avoid it..

The only one I have concealed it from is my mother, and frankly she doesn't want to know when/where/whom I do the deed with. Even when I was married I didn't talk about my sex life with her or others for that matter. Concealing private activities is a virtue in my extimation.

 

[JGG]

The truth is that fornication eventually leads to people either lying about, or concealing, what they have done. They can't be honest about what they have done without harming someone else, and if they lie about it ,or conseal it, they harm themselves. There is no way to avoid it..

I had sex with my wife before marriage. Neither of us ever concealed it, or lied about it (at least I didn't, and to the best of my knowledge, either did she).

I know my sister had sex before marriage, but never lied to anyone about it. In fact, she was more open about it then I would have cared to have known.

I admit she didn't exactly come home announcing to my mother how they had done it, but she never pretended, or made excuses.

I guess we just didn't need to lie, huh?

However, when my sister totalled my mom's car, she did conceal that. Car accidents must be a sin.

 

[repentandbelieve]

If there is no harm, it isn't really stealing.

So then all somebody has to do is somehow justify in their minds that taking something that belongs to you isn't going to harm you and then "it isn't really stealing"?

Do you realize how easy that is for someone to do. A person with a slightly warped imagination could convince themselves that they would actually be doing you a favor by taking that old worn out car off your hands. "After all nobodys been using it"

I'm sorry to tell you this faster_jackrabbit, but your standard of morality has got too many loop holes in it.

I thank God for Him giving us His standard to live by. It's strict, because it has to be in order to keep the loop holes out of it, but I love it anyway.

 

[JGG]

Do you realize how easy that is for someone to do. A person with a slightly warped imagination could convince themselves that they would actually be doing you a favor by taking that old worn out car off your hands. "After all nobodys been using it."

Ummm...not to burst your bubble here, but odds are you yourself have done something similar on a smaller scale, and not even realized it. Its kind of something we humans do. Its actually a very cool mental phenomenon. Does God consider that a loophole?

 

[repentandbelieve]

I had sex with my wife before marriage. Neither of us ever concealed it, or lied about it (at least I didn't, and to the best of my knowledge, either did she).

I know my sister had sex before marriage, but never lied to anyone about it. In fact, she was more open about it then I would have cared to have known.

I admit she didn't exactly come home announcing to my mother how they had done it, but she never pretended, or made excuses.

I guess we just didn't need to lie, huh?

However, when my sister totalled my mom's car, she did conceal that. Car accidents must be a sin.

Hi JGG, I think most people are the same way. Very, very few people abstain from having sex until they are married.

I didn't lie about to my parents either. They never asked. Perhaps I would have lied had they asked . But I'm sure that I would have been tempted to lie about it i had they asked.

I wouldn't say that I concealed it either. But then again, I certainly wasn't out in the open about it either.

My parents acted quite typically too (God bless them) They were careful to not put me in a position where I needed to lie or to tell the truth.

I'm willing to bet thet this is the way it goes at least 75 per cent of the time. Most of us say that didn't lie about it or conseal it, but we were never really confronted about it. Had we been who knows how we would have reacted.

And you were only joking about the car accident being sinful weren't you? I found it sort of humorus anyway.

 

[faster_jackrabbit]

Lets say that you stole a diamond ring from your friends wife while they were at work.

On the way home from work they both died in a MVA.....they didnt have a chance to find out that you had stolen, so they didnt get a chance to get hurt...does that still make your stealing right?

also no other family members knew about this ring because they had just purchased it and hadnt told anyone about it or shown anyone yet.

All you have changed is who gets hurt. The ring would be part of the estate, so you have basically stolen it from the heirs and harmed them.

 

[repentandbelieve]

Ummm...not to burst your bubble here, but odds are you yourself have done something similar on a smaller scale, and not even realized it. Its kind of something we humans do. Its actually a very cool mental phenomenon. Does God consider that a loophole?

Actually I've done much worse on a larger scale while realizing it. So I'm certain that I "have done something similar on a smaller scale, and not even realized it"

And looking back , there is nothing cool about it at all.

Anybody who mistakes me for some sort of self rightous pious prude is grossly mistaking .

 

[faster_jackrabbit]

So then all somebody has to do is somehow justify in their minds that taking something that belongs to you isn't going to harm you and then "it isn't really stealing"?

Someone can just as easily do this with an explicit command not to steal, such as the one provided by the ancient ordinary men who wrote your holy book and created your god.

Do you realize how easy that is for someone to do. A person with a slightly warped imagination could convince themselves that they would actually be doing you a favor by taking that old worn out car off your hands. "After all nobodys been using it"

This is similar to the way some christians with a slightly warped imagination find ways to bend commandments they don't like and ignore the ones they can't figure out how to bend.

I'm sorry to tell you this faster_jackrabbit,

Pardon me if I don't get too brokenhearted.

but your standard of morality has got too many loop holes in it.

Declaring loopholes doesn't actually make them exist.

List them out.

I thank God for Him giving us His standard to live by. It's strict, because it has to be in order to keep the loop holes out of it, but I love it anyway.

Winston Smith grew to love Big Brother.

 

[repentandbelieve]

Declaring loopholes doesn't actually make them exist.

List them out.

.

Looking for more loopholes huh? Naw, I don't that I'll give you any more than I already have. I don't want to be guilty of being an accessary to crimes committed by them.

 

[repentandbelieve]

Lets say that you stole a diamond ring from your friends wife while they were at work.

On the way home from work they both died in a MVA.....they didnt have a chance to find out that you had stolen, so they didnt get a chance to get hurt...does that still make your stealing right?

also no other family members knew about this ring because they had just purchased it and hadnt told anyone about it or shown anyone yet.

It doesn't matter what kind of scenario you come up with Jesus Walks, the human mind is so ingenous at finding ways to justify doing whatever serves it's purposes it will find a way to justify doing it.

Of course God knew this and this is why his standard seems so strict to us. The natural man wants something more flexable, something they can twist and turn and manipulate.

 

[JGG]

Of course God knew this and this is why his standard seems so strict to us. The natural man wants something more flexable, something they can twist and turn and manipulate.

Why didn't God just design a human mind that would easily follow said standards?

 

[repentandbelieve]

Why didn't God just design a human mind that would easily follow said standards?

That is a legitimate question.

Certainly some people have an easier time following said standards than others do. But for some reason God designed the human mind so that it could be tempted. Even the mind of Jesus was subject to temptation.

I've learned through experience that God aids the mind to make it stronger to resist temptation.

I'm guessing here, but maybe God knew that if He had designed the human mind so that it would easily follow said standards that humans would never feel their need of Devine aid.

 

[JGG]

I've learned through experience that God aids the mind to make it stronger to resist temptation.

Strangely enough, my experience says the exact opposite.

I'm guessing here, but maybe God knew that if He had designed the human mind so that it would easily follow said standards that humans would never feel their need of Devine aid.

But why would God want us to need divine aid? I know why a parent would, but those reasons tend to be a bit selfish, and God should be above that kind of thing, right?

I was actually expecting an answer dealing with freewill myself.

 

[repentandbelieve]

Strangely enough, my experience says the exact opposite.



But why would God want us to need divine aid? I know why a parent would, but those reasons tend to be a bit selfish, and God should be above that kind of thing, right?

I was actually expecting an answer dealing with freewill myself.

It may be the God of this world who is telling the opposite.

But anyway, God definatly made us for his good pleasure. And yes. it's easy to take this as being a bit selfish.

I'm learning that God is not what we expect Him to be and that He's in deed mysterous. About the time I think that I'm startng to fiqure Him out he shows me that I don't know Him quite as well as I thought I did.

 

[faster_jackrabbit]

Looking for more loopholes huh?

More? I'm waiting for you to provide any.

Naw, I don't that I'll give you any more than I already have.

Don't have any, huh?

I don't want to be guilty of being an accessary to crimes committed by them.

Yadda, yadda. It's not as if I would do something simply because you suggested it.

 

[faster_jackrabbit]

I'm guessing here, but maybe God knew that if He had designed the human mind so that it would easily follow said standards that humans would never feel their need of Devine aid.

Maybe so. Create a "problem" so you can sell a "solution". Marketing 101.

 

[PacificPandeist]

It may be the God of this world who is telling the opposite.

But anyway, God definatly made us for his good pleasure. And yes. it's easy to take this as being a bit selfish.

I'm learning that God is not what we expect Him to be and that He's in deed mysterous. About the time I think that I'm startng to fiqure Him out he shows me that I don't know Him quite as well as I thought I did.

God is not mysterious, God is merely unknown to most, and unexpected by those who desire a God that should be feared.... God does not judge, nor interfere, God simply is.... God was an immeasurable energy that made itself into the Universe so that it could experience such an existence, and we are all part of God, made of God, filled with God, and providing the experiences for which God created the Universe (yes, including fornication)!!

//// Pacific PanDeist

 

[JGG]

It may be the God of this world who is telling the opposite.

What I mean is I have a much easier time resisting temptation now, without a belief in any god than I did when I did believe.

But anyway, God definatly made us for his good pleasure. And yes. it's easy to take this as being a bit selfish.

I'm learning that God is not what we expect Him to be and that He's in deed mysterous. About the time I think that I'm startng to fiqure Him out he shows me that I don't know Him quite as well as I thought I did.

As much as I can associate with that, it doesn't exactly fit the faith, does it?