Why is fornication bad?

[repentandbelieve]

As much as I can associate with that, it doesn't exactly fit the faith, does it?

Do you mean the idea that there is alot of mystery surrounding God.?

As far as what is preached from the pulpit or talked about in study groups I agree with you that no it does not fit the faith.

On the other hand , it is completly biblical.. Cover to Cover you will find references made in regards to to the deep mysterys of God .

So it doesn't get called to the attention of the casual Christian , but a learned bible student will have an understanding of it.

 

[JGG]

Do you mean the idea that there is alot of mystery surrounding God.?

As far as what is preached from the pulpit or talked about in study groups I agree with you that no it does not fit the faith.

On the other hand , it is completly biblical.. Cover to Cover you will find references made in regards to to the deep mysterys of God .

So it doesn't get called to the attention of the casual Christian , but a learned bible student will have an understanding of it.

But are Christians not called to know God? How can one know God if God is a mystery?

 

[repentandbelieve]

But are Christians not called to know God? How can one know God if God is a mystery?

We're getting quite a ways from the OP but basically it boils done to this. We can know God but we can never know God completly.

perhaps if you start another thread we can discuss it there.

 

[repentandbelieve]

Maybe so. Create a "problem" so you can sell a "solution". Marketing 101.

Like I said it was only a guess so I could be totally off the mark.

 

[nvxplorer]

That is a legitimate question.

Certainly some people have an easier time following said standards than others do. But for some reason God designed the human mind so that it could be tempted. Even the mind of Jesus was subject to temptation.

I've learned through experience that God aids the mind to make it stronger to resist temptation.

I'm guessing here, but maybe God knew that if He had designed the human mind so that it would easily follow said standards that humans would never feel their need of Devine aid.

Except that, in this case (fornication), the mind isn't being tempted by Satan, but by chemical reactions within the body.

Sex is a biological process, not a psychological choice. One's sex drive is not triggered by the marriage ritual. The natural urge to procreate cannot be halted with Divine aid. It can be willfully muted to an extent, but the only way to remove it is, again, biologically, through (I believe irreversible) surgery.

Following your lead, I'm guessing that God knew exactly what he was doing, and he wouldn't design human beings expecting us to control an innate biological process using our minds. First of all, it cannot be done; we can no more control hormones using will-power than we can control infectious disease using the mind. Secondly, such a plan would be cruel. As God expects us to satiate hunger with food, he expects us to satisfy our libidos with sex.

We have two subjects at play here: Sex and marriage. There appears to be a conflict. In settling the conflict, I need only see that sex is unequivocally a product of God's creation, but the origin of marriage is debatable. As such, any unrealistic standards such as prohibitions against non-marital sex must be seen in the context of human culture, not God's plan.

 

[repentandbelieve]

Except that, in this case (fornication), the mind isn't being tempted by Satan, but by chemical reactions within the body.

Sex is a biological process, not a psychological choice. One's sex drive is not triggered by the marriage ritual. The natural urge to procreate cannot be halted with Devine aid. It can be willfully muted to an extent, but the only way to remove it is, again, biologically, through (I believe irreversible) surgery.

Following your lead, I'm guessing that God knew exactly what he was doing, and he wouldn't design human beings expecting us to control an innate biological process using our minds. First of all, it cannot be done; we can no more control hormones using will-power than we can control infectious disease using the mind. Secondly, such a plan would be cruel. As God expects us to satiate hunger with food, he expects us to satisfy our libidos with sex.

We have two subjects at play here: Sex and marriage. There appears to be a conflict. In settling the conflict, I need only see that sex is unequivocally a product of God's creation, but the origin of marriage is debatable. As such, any unrealistic standards such as prohibitions against non-marital sex must be seen in the context of human culture, not God's plan.

I disagree with your post because Devine aid can control hormones.

But thank you very much, because you have given me the answer to something that I have often wondered about. I've wondered how God got people who don't know Him to serve His purposes. Now I know how it's done..He controls their homones.

Now why couldn't I figure that out on my own? Thanks again..

 

[nvxplorer]

I disagree. I believe that Devine aid can control hormones.

Okay. I expect you can provide a study showing hormones being manipulated in ways we cannot detect? AFAIK, reproductive biology is fully understood by science, and the Divine is nowhere to be found.

But thank you very much, because you have given me the answer to something that I have often wondered about. I've wondered how God got people who don't know Him to serve His purposes. Now I know how it's done..He controls their homones.

Now why couldn't I figure that out on my own? Thanks again..

Come again?

 

[flicka]

I disagree with your post because Devine aid can control hormones.

Why would that be neessary? It only shows me that the creater didn't do a very good job and now must interfere with our biology for us to be any good.

But thank you very much, because you have given me the answer to something that I have often wondered about. I've wondered how God got people who don't know Him to serve His purposes. Now I know how it's done..He controls their homones.

Now why couldn't I figure that out on my own? Thanks again..

I have no idea what you mean by this. Wouldn't it make more sense to say that little devil satan is controlling those crazy non christain hormones? I don't know where youv'e been but that idea isn't new, I hear it quite often here on CF .

 

[repentandbelieve]

Why would that be neessary? It only shows me that the creater didn't do a very good job and now must interfere with our biology for us to be any good.

This could be how God is able to cause humans to serve his puposes without violating thier free will.

biology is only a science, thats all it is. It the study of living things.


.

 

[repentandbelieve]

Why would that be neessary? It only shows me that the creater didn't do a very good job and now must interfere with our biology for us to be any good.

I have no idea what you mean by this. Wouldn't it make more sense to say that little devil satan is controlling those crazy non christain hormones? I don't know where youv'e been but that idea isn't new, I hear it quite often here on CF .

No because Satan's power is limited, he's only a fallen angel . Only the Life Giver could have this sort of biological control over life.

. .

 

[nvxplorer]

This is how God is able to cause humans to serve his puposes without violating thier free will.

Nonsensical. If God is causing humans to act in a certain manner, such causation negates free will.

biology is only a science, thats all it is. It the study of living things.

That's one defintion, but for our purposes, the wrong one.

Here's the applicable definition:

characteristic life processes and phenomena of living organisms

 

[nvxplorer]

No because Satan's power is limited, he's only a fallen angel . Only the Life Giver could have this sort of biological control over life.

. .

Here's what we have so far...

Sex drive is an innate biological process. This process was created by God.

God uses this process to tempt us into doing evil.

Pardon me, but this seems highly contrary to Christian doctrine.

 

[repentandbelieve]

Nonsensical. If God is causing humans to act in a certain manner, such causation negates free will.


That's one defintion, but for our purposes, the wrong one.

Here's the applicable definition:

characteristic life processes and phenomena of living organisms

I used the word "causes" for lack of a better term. Perhaps "persuades" better describes what I'm trying to say.

This definition of biology is only slightly different than the American College Dictionary which reads "The science of life or living matter in all its forms and phenomena."

By either definition "Biology" is not life itself.

Man is still climbing the ladder so to speak of what there is to be known about biology.

 

[nvxplorer]

I used the word "causes" for lack of a better term. Perhaps "persuades" better describes what I'm trying to say.

It appears you're saying what I alluded to in my previous post; that God tempts us by using our biological makeup. Sex is but one instinct. Hunger is another. Is hunger controlled by God, or is it simply a natural reaction to the need for food?

This definition of biology is only slightly different than the American College Dictionary which reads "The science of life or living matter in all its forms and phenomena."

By either definition "Biology" is not life itself.

Again, you are using the wrong definition. The definition used by flicka and me is indeed, life itself.

Once more: characteristic life processes and phenomena of living organisms

Man is still climbing the ladder so to speak of what there is to be known about biology.

Knowledge of biology is irrelevant to biological processes and phenomena. Your heart will continue to beat irrespective of your knowledge of its process.

 

[repentandbelieve]

It appears you're saying what I alluded to in my previous post; that God tempts us by using our biological makeup. Sex is but one instinct. Hunger is another. Is hunger controlled by God, or is it simply a natural reaction to the need for food?


Again, you are using the wrong definition. The definition used by flicka and me is indeed, life itself.

Once more: characteristic life processes and phenomena of living organisms


Knowledge of biology is irrelevant to biological processes and phenomena. Your heart will continue to beat irrespective of your knowledge of its process.

About as simple as I can say it is that God controls all of life biologically. Thats the process he uses to effect our life characters . And why couldn't He accomplishes this by adjusting our hormone levels?

I really got to be moving on. I'll check back in tomorrow.

 

[flicka]

About as simple as I can say it is that God controls all of life biologically. Thats the process he uses to effect our life characters . And He accomplishes this by adjusting our hormone levels.

God is adjusting our hormone levels? I don't get it. Does he decide, on a day to day/hour to hour basis when we will be horney or something? To what purpose does this cause non christains to serve his purpose, and does he tinker with christains hormones too? Does he make all those trying-to-save-it-till-marriage kids mess up and give in? Funny, I wouldn't think he'd be that mean and cause that much guilt.

I really think you need to explain what you mean because my imagination is running amok and God isn't looking so good.

 

[PacificPandeist]

Any being that could properly be defined as "God" would not command us to follow path "A", and then cause us to follow path "B".... especially if that being is going to punish us for following path "B"....

Say I was writing a story, and I wrote in the story how the characters in my story were commanded to follow path "X", and then I wrote in the story how the characters followed path "Y", and then I decided to punish them for following path "Y" by torturing them for eternity? Besides this being sadistic, there's no point to it!! I learn nothing from it!!

Einstein said God does not play dice with the Universe, and he was right.... God created the Universe by becoming the Universe to perfect God's knowledge.... no knowledge is gained by the cheap parlor trick described above....

God exists in all of us, and to punish us for following any particular path would simply be to punish God.... rather, we punish ourselves by creating bad experiences to be revisited upon us when all things return to being part of God!!

//// Pacific PanDeist

 

[repentandbelieve]

God is adjusting our hormone levels? I don't get it. Does he decide, on a day to day/hour to hour basis when we will be horney or something? To what purpose does this cause non christains to serve his purpose, and does he tinker with christains hormones too? Does he make all those trying-to-save-it-till-marriage kids mess up and give in? Funny, I wouldn't think he'd be that mean and cause that much guilt.

I really think you need to explain what you mean because my imagination is running amok and God isn't looking so good.

Yep, regardless of if a person belives in Him or not, God can control their appetite for sex. I've known for a long time that he could do this, I just didn't know how it does it.

 

[nvxplorer]

Yep, regardless of if a person belives in Him or not, God can control their appetite for sex. I've known for a long time that he could do this, I just didn't know how it does it.

The question isn't whether God can do this; it's whether He does do this.

There is as much evidence for God controlling hormone levels as there is for Jesus holding atoms together, or the Holy Spirit pushing clouds around. In other words, there is no evidence whatsoever that God controls hormone levels. The evidence we do have suggests that atoms are held together by the nuclear forces, that clouds are pushed by the wind, and that hormone levels are determined by biochemistry.

 

[repentandbelieve]

The question isn't whether God can do this; it's whether He does do this.

There is as much evidence for God controlling hormone levels as there is for Jesus holding atoms together, or the Holy Spirit pushing clouds around. In other words, there is no evidence whatsoever that God controls hormone levels. The evidence we do have suggests that atoms are held together by the nuclear forces, that clouds are pushed by the wind, and that hormone levels are determined by biochemistry.

life doesn't come from biochemistry. Life comes from God. Biochemistry is merely the process God uses to do give and sustain life.

Hormones are produced. In others words they are created. Biochemstry doesn't produce anything. Organs produce hormones biochemically.

A man builds a chair, he uses a process called carpentry to accomplish it. You can't say that carpentry built the chair. Man built the chair