Why is fornication bad?

[repentandbelieve]

Don't lay your guilt trip on me. I don't regret any of my sexual experiences, instead regret that there were not more of them. As far as shame is concerned, I am far more ashamed of the reputation this country has in the realm of sexual repression.

What I'm trying to fiqure out is how someone who admittingly had sex with their daughter could not be ashamed of it.

 

[faster_jackrabbit]

I think that you could have picked a better analogy.

Steps can be taken to substantially reduce the chances of unwanted pregnancy. But what steps can air passengers take that will have that substanial effect of reducing the chances of a plane crash?

Actually that reinforces my point. So since you can improve your chances of problem-free sex, it makes more sense to have sex than to vacation abroad, if your whole reason for abstaining is what might happen.

 

[faster_jackrabbit]

What I'm trying to fiqure out is how someone who admittingly had sex with their daughter could not be ashamed of it.

Huh? What in the bubonic hell are you talking about? If you mean me, I don't even have a daughter.

 

[repentandbelieve]

Huh? What in the bubonic hell are you talking about? If you mean me, I don't even have a daughter.

Either do I.

 

[faster_jackrabbit]

Either do I.

So you were talking about fornicators in general?

Okay, say I did have an adult daughter or sister. Say I have a vasectomy and/or she has her tubes tied. Say neither of us is in a relationship or is committed to anyone.

In what way is having sex with her different from having sex with a random single woman, other than society says it is? What harm is being caused by such a liason? And I mean actual harm, rather than society foaming at the mouth.

 

[EnemyPartyII]

In what way is having sex with her different from having sex with a random single woman, other than society says it is? What harm is being caused by such a liason? And I mean actual harm, rather than society foaming at the mouth.

Well, its probably not psychologically healthy, humans are hard wired to breed outside the family... forced incest leads to all sorts of emotional problems down the track...

 

[faster_jackrabbit]

Well, its probably not psychologically healthy, humans are hard wired to breed outside the family... forced incest leads to all sorts of emotional problems down the track...

Well, possibly, but it's not breeding, breeding isn't possible, and both parties know it. That might have some effect on any potential psychological trauma.

 

[EnemyPartyII]

Well, possibly, but it's not breeding, breeding isn't possible, and both parties know it. That might have some effect on any potential psychological trauma.

Theres a difference between what you intelectually know (tubes tied) and what your subconsciouse TELLS you is true (danger, sex with this person is BAD) there is a reason why the siblings of even the most attractive people, GENERALLY speaking... do not find each other attractive.

 

[repentandbelieve]

So you were talking about fornicators in general?

Okay, say I did have an adult daughter or sister. Say I have a vasectomy and/or she has her tubes tied. Say neither of us is in a relationship or is committed to anyone.

In what way is having sex with her different from having sex with a random single woman, other than society says it is? What harm is being caused by such a liason? And I mean actual harm, rather than society foaming at the mouth.

So people should be able to do whatever they feel like doing as long no one gets harmed? In other words, no harm no foul.

 

[repentandbelieve]

Theres a difference between what you intelectually know (tubes tied) and what your subconsciouse TELLS you is true (danger, sex with this person is BAD) there is a reason why the siblings of even the most attractive people, GENERALLY speaking... do not find each other attractive.

There is a reason for it, and the reason isn't based on any particular religion because 99 percent of atheist aren't sexually attracted to their siblings.

 

[faster_jackrabbit]

So people should be able to do whatever they feel like doing as long no one gets harmed? In other words, no harm no foul.

Absolutely. Give me a reason why not, without invoking the supposed whims of an alleged deity.

 

[repentandbelieve]

Actually that reinforces my point. So since you can improve your chances of problem-free sex, it makes more sense to have sex than to vacation abroad, if your whole reason for abstaining is what might happen.

I don't see a relationship between morality and vacationing abroad.

It's hard for me to relate to your analogy because I don't abstain from having sex, or traveling abroad, because of what might happen. In fact, I've enjoyed doing both at the same time.

 

[repentandbelieve]

Absolutely. Give me a reason why not, without invoking the supposed whims of an alleged deity.

Does your mind tell you that it is OK to lie or steal as long as nobody gets harmed ?

 

[EnemyPartyII]

how can you steal without harming anyone?

 

[repentandbelieve]

how can you steal without harming anyone?

You can't. But people invent all sorts of ways trying to justify it in their own minds. They think that they can take steps to significantly reduce the chances of it becoming "problem free" so to speak., You know, The "all put it back later" way of reasoning it out. But end the end it still violates their own concious which causes harm to themselves.

 

[EnemyPartyII]

well they might try justifying it, buts its still not a crime that harms no one... mutually consensual sex, however, would not apear to harm anyone, provided we abandon the concept of women as "property" and that therefore pre-marital sex is reducing someone else's property value

 

[elman]

well they might try justifying it, buts its still not a crime that harms no one... mutually consensual sex, however, would not apear to harm anyone, provided we abandon the concept of women as "property" and that therefore pre-marital sex is reducing someone else's property value

How can you know it is not going to harm anyone? There is potential for harm and it has nothing to do with women being property.

 

[sparklecat]

How can you know it is not going to harm anyone? There is potential for harm and it has nothing to do with women being property.

In what way are you thinking of it harming someone? To some degree, we need the freedom to make poor choices and learn what to do; harm because we don't like the relationship we're in is something most go through and ending premarital sex won't change that. Physical harm can be protected against by practising safe sex. For any sort of emotional harm, you'd need to be able to show that people who have sex outside of marriage are less happy/mentally stable than those who wait until marriage, no?

 

[EnemyPartyII]

There is potential for harm and it has nothing to do with women being property.

where is the potential for harm between two consenting adults to have sex?

aside from misadventure... but that happens crossing the street too.... the question is, what harm is clearly avoided by stopping consenting informed adults from doing something they want to do that does not intrinsically or intentionally harm anyone?

 

[elman]

In what way are you thinking of it harming someone? To some degree, we need the freedom to make poor choices and learn what to do; harm because we don't like the relationship we're in is something most go through and ending premarital sex won't change that. Physical harm can be protected against by practising safe sex. For any sort of emotional harm, you'd need to be able to show that people who have sex outside of marriage are less happy/mentally stable than those who wait until marriage, no?

There are many ways someone can be harmed and safe sex is not completly possible. I think one can not be as happy a sexual partner with a loved commited partner if they are promiscous in their sex life. If sex mean little more than having lunch, I don't think they have a good potential for long term happiness in a commited relationship. When someone says everyone understands it is a one time thing, is there any danger of someone getting hurt emotionally when it is continued awhile and is broken off. Any possiblity of pain, or sadness, or depression? I think so. What about the way we view ourselves? Can we be really happy with ourselves if we have the same sex habits as our pets? I just don't think so. I don't know I can prove anything in that regard, but I think there are potential haxards to self esteem and relationships with others in a promiscous sex life as opposed to a commited relationship.