Why is Constantine not a widely renowned Christian figure?

[drjean]

I guess I could form a personal opinion but I find many resources that imply his actual faith conversion (my words for it) was prior to that time... as I noted, many works follow the church's idea that until he was baptized (on his death bed) he was not a convert.

He surely was conflicted though

 

[Anoetos]

I guess I could form a personal opinion but I find many resources that imply his actual faith conversion (my words for it) was prior to that time... as I noted, many works follow the church's idea that until he was baptized (on his death bed) he was not a convert.

He surely was conflicted though

I think you're right about that, the best we can say is that we are not sure when he really converted or what the nature of that conversion was beyond that it was some time between 312 and 337.

What we can say for certain is that his recognition of Christianity as a Religione Licita and his eventual embrace of the religion had far reaching consequences. One's opinions about that can vary. For my own part I am somewhat ambivalent: I see dangers and problems we seem to have inherited from it, but I also believe in Providence and recognize that it was Part of The Plan.

 

[dbcsf]

Constantine's legacy is somewhat bitter-sweet. On the one hand, he ended official persecution of Christianity in the Roman empire, on the other hand Christianity slowly became more intertwined with Roman politics.

It's important that we always remember the difference between kingdom and empire. The City of God and the City of Man.

-CryptoLutheran

Amen

 

[Root of Jesse]

Um yes he did, he instructed Christians and non Christians practice sun worship. He made statements that he was reformed due to angel sighted. He professed that the Christian god was the only god then built the arch of Constantine to honor Apollo Diana and Hercules . He did legalize Christian worship as well pagan, in that was far better than the tormentors from the latter emperor. Can you give me bible reference as to 300 years prior to Constantine starting Catholicism Peters roll as Pope or any mentioned Catholicism.

Got some proof of that? (Instructing Christians to practice sun worship, and the other things you say about his conversion). Constantine converted because he saw a vision that under the sign of the cross he could be victorious. He did legalize all religions, but converted to Christianity. He was baptized on his deathbed, a common custom because of the knowledge that baptism forgives sin. By converting late, they assured their place in heaven.

Matt 16:18-20 regarding Peter as the rock of the one Church Christ instituted.

It was referred to as "The Way" (as in THE, only one) in the Bible, Catholic was imparted later, meaning universal.

 

[now faith]

Some 35 years ago in high school world history and a encyclopedia , would be my proof. The vision was the sun behind a cross. I am not trying to bash others religion but I realized the importance of not rewriting history for religions sake. Where do you think we found the name Sunday for the first day. Why would Christ found a church steeped in pagan idols 300 years after the cross. It is simply a claim of origin as with other denomations that has no proof or solid basis just posturing.

 

[Root of Jesse]

Some 35 years ago in high school world history and a encyclopedia , would be my proof. The vision was the sun behind a cross. I am not trying to bash others religion but I realized the importance of not rewriting history for religions sake. Where do you think we found the name Sunday for the first day. Why would Christ found a church steeped in pagan idols 300 years after the cross. It is simply a claim of origin as with other denomations that has no proof or solid basis just posturing.

First off, Constantine was a secular ruler, not a religious authority. What he saw caused him to convert.
Secondly, the names of the days are all from the stars and planets, so what? That they kept them? Again, so what? It doesn't imply sun worship because the Romans were directed to worship Caesar. Those that didn't were put to ugly deaths. We worship on Sunday because Christ rose on Sunday.
Christ founded His Church as stated in the Gospel, on Peter, in Matt 16:18-20. It came alive on Pentecost. It was a persecuted church until Constantine legalized it.
Every Protestant denomination can name its human founder. Christianity itself was founded by Christ, and the first Christians are Catholic, by which we mean they accepted the whole truth Christ taught them. From nearly the beginning there were those who didn't like this or that truth, and dissented, falling away from the one truth of Christ. The Catholic Church is the one that grew and prospered through all the calamities the world could throw at it.

 

[now faith]

Good post thank you.

 

[Root of Jesse]

Good post thank you.

Thanks for reading. Hope we all can learn something from these discussions.

 

[Incariol]

Some 35 years ago in high school world history and a encyclopedia , would be my proof.

That isn't terribly compelling.

The vision was the sun behind a cross. I am not trying to bash others religion but I realized the importance of not rewriting history for religions sake. Where do you think we found the name Sunday for the first day.

From several European languages in the 13th century C.E.

Sunday - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Why would Christ found a church steeped in pagan idols 300 years after the cross. It is simply a claim of origin as with other denomations that has no proof or solid basis just posturing.

I don't know. Good thing it isn't, eh?

 

[Huram Abi]

He is a saint in the Orthodox Church! I was chrismated with his name!


The reason why Protestants don't show any love for him or anything that he did is because, according to them, he replaced "true Christianity" with Roman Catholicism and brutally oppressed any and all non conforming Christians as well as founding today's Roman Catholic Church which does nothing but oppress the masses and bows down to their pope (yes, those are the almost exact words of several Baptists and Pentecostals I have met).

That "reasoning" originated in the 19th century by a man who did not read his history.

Yes, Constantine started the Eastern Orthodoxy, not the RCC , which sprung up in regions at the far reach of his empire.

 

[MarkRohfrietsch]

Most Confessional Lutherans commemorate both him and his mother (from Lutheran Service Book):

May 21 Emperor Constantine, Christian Ruler and \ Helen, Mother of Constantine

 

[VolRaider]

He is a saint in the Orthodox Church! I was chrismated with his name!


The reason why Protestants don't show any love for him or anything that he did is because, according to them, he replaced "true Christianity" with Roman Catholicism and brutally oppressed any and all non conforming Christians as well as founding today's Roman Catholic Church which does nothing but oppress the masses and bows down to their pope (yes, those are the almost exact words of several Baptists and Pentecostals I have met).

That "reasoning" originated in the 19th century by a man who did not read his history.

I'm Protestant, but I have nothing but respect for Constantine.

 

[Abrahamist]

This is my question did he incorporate pagan and Christian belief? Is so how can the Catholic church claim Peter as the first pope? Or claim to be the first church? Since pagan belief would not have been condoned by the apostles. What is the forums view on pagan terms and icons still being commonly used today. Could pagan worship be a continued worship of Baal that cursed Israel from the start?

I studied Judaism for a while before I started attending services at a Catholic Church. I immediately recognized what was going on because it was the same thing the Jews do in their synagogues.

Also, Paganism is completely different world view than the Catholic one. The Catholic world view is not significantly different from the Jewish world view but is a continuation of the Old Testament story.

 

[Abrahamist]

Um yes he did, he instructed Christians and non Christians practice sun worship. He made statements that he was reformed due to angel sighted. He professed that the Christian god was the only god then built the arch of Constantine to honor Apollo Diana and Hercules . He did legalize Christian worship as well pagan, in that was far better than the tormentors from the latter emperor. Can you give me bible reference as to 300 years prior to Constantine starting Catholicism Peters roll as Pope or any mentioned Catholicism.

You ought to attend an RCIA class and actually learn what Catholicism teaches. None of Constantine's sun god nonsense made it into Catholic doctrine.

 

[Albion]

I studied Judaism for a while before I started attending services at a Catholic Church. I immediately recognized what was going on because it was the same thing the Jews do in their synagogues.

Wouldn't that have come through to you if you had been in any one of a dozen other Christian churches? Not every last Christian church, of course, but quite a few of them have essentially the same worship service as the RCC.if

 

[Abrahamist]

Wouldn't that have come through to you if you had been in any one of a dozen other Christian churches? Not every last Christian church, of course, but quite a few of them have essentially the same worship service as the RCC.if

I grew up protestant in the middle of the Bible Belt and there isn't a whole lot of Catholic influence in this part of the world. The specific church I attending as a child was one of these "nondenominational" rock concert churches and so their practice was nothing whatsoever like the RCC. When I first started attending synagogue, I was completely flabbergasted by how just completely different the religion Jesus came from was from the religions that were being practiced in his name.

There is a much wider gap between either Judaism or the RCC and the practice of my old church than their is between Judaism and the RCC.

 

[Trogool]

The Roman Emperor Constantine was the first Roman Emperor to convert to Christianity and he popularized it all over the massive Empire. He even issued the Edict of Milan, legalizing Christian worship all over the empire.

If it wasnt for Constantine, Christianity wouldnt have spread over Europe as it did..our western culture was so influenced by the Roman culture, if it wasnt for Constantine, many of the West would still be worshiping Pagan Roman gods, or another religion which would have filled the void.

So why isnt Constantine a renowened figure in Christianity ? In all my catholic education and life I have never heard his name, or what he did. Only recently in a history class I did.

Or maybe he is, and its just where I grew up?

He is widely known. It is probably just where you grew up.

 

[Trogool]

Yes, Constantine started the Eastern Orthodoxy, not the RCC , which sprung up in regions at the far reach of his empire.

No, he didn't. The Christian Church and Christian bishops were around long before him. He didn't "start" anything, he merely issued an edict officially tolerating it.

 

[Huram Abi]

And created the canon. the unification of Christian thought into one body of knowledge began with him.

It's simply a point of contention that the RCC claims to be the originator of the universal doctrine, but they are not.

 

[Albion]

I grew up protestant in the middle of the Bible Belt and there isn't a whole lot of Catholic influence in this part of the world. The specific church I attending as a child was one of these "nondenominational" rock concert churches and so their practice was nothing whatsoever like the RCC.

I see. Not a very representative sample of Protestantism, huh?