Why is Constantine not a widely renowned Christian figure?

[now faith]

i would "judge" by his actions,. I.E. his continued Pagan worship after his "conversion".

This is my question did he incorporate pagan and Christian belief? Is so how can the Catholic church claim Peter as the first pope? Or claim to be the first church? Since pagan belief would not have been condoned by the apostles. What is the forums view on pagan terms and icons still being commonly used today. Could pagan worship be a continued worship of Baal that cursed Israel from the start?

 

[Root of Jesse]

This is my question did he incorporate pagan and Christian belief? Is so how can the Catholic church claim Peter as the first pope? Or claim to be the first church? Since pagan belief would not have been condoned by the apostles. What is the forums view on pagan terms and icons still being commonly used today. Could pagan worship be a continued worship of Baal that cursed Israel from the start?

Um, no, he didn't. What Constantine did, plain and simple, was to legalize the practice of Christianity. This simply allowed Christians to practice their faith freely, and allowed the Church to grow unfettered.

He converted on his deathbed.

How can we claim Peter as the first pope? Because Christ said so in Matt 16:18. We believe that Christ taught his apostles and disciples, and this was the original Catholic Church. The disciples went out to the nations and preached, ensuring the continuation of it. Christ said to do this, and promised the Holy Spirit to protect His Church from teaching something heterodox to what He taught, and gave his apostles and disciples the means to tell the difference.

 

[Albion]

Very simply, Protestantism is, in one sense, the political sense, an expression of dissent from authority. A basic tenet of evangelical Christianity is the necessity of a distinct separation of church and state. The union of church and state is, politically, what precipitated the Reformation and is understood by evangelicals to be a great evil which robs men of their liberty before God.

Constantine is seen to be the one who got the whole ball rolling.

Right, wrong, or indifferent, I think that's the crux of the biscuit...

Well now, SOME Evangelicals think that a separation of church and state is right to do, but it's not inherent in either Protestantism or the Reformation. Several of the most famous Protestant church bodies are, in fact, 'established' churches, meaning the religion is the only one officially recognized by the government. And they have existed that way for centuries.

The only reason that the Protestant Reformation appears to have opposed government is because many of the governments were in cahoots with the Catholic church. But when the shoe was on the other foot, as in the Germanies and Swiss cantons, the Protestants were more than willing to cooperate with government. And Luther specifically taught that we are to be obedient to the political authorities. It's not the case that any "dissent from authority" is either inherent in Protestantism or the origin of the word "Protestant."

If we were to define "Evangelical" as the smaller, newer, Pentecostal or Holiness bodies, or as a synonym for "Baptist," that would lead to a different conclusion, I suppose.

 

[Nephi]

As mentioned much earlier in this thread, St. Constantine is definitely renowned - especially in the Eastern Orthodox Church. His mother, St. Helen, is also pretty important.

 

[grasping the after wind]

As mentioned much earlier in this thread, St. Constantine is definitely renowned - especially in the Eastern Orthodox Church. His mother, St. Helen, is also pretty important.

I believe the same applies to the RCC. Constantine has never been low profile in Rome.

 

[kql314]

Hello. Oddly enough, in a recent survey that I conducted (in the US) which polled various pastors, leaders and teachers in many denominations, Constantine got many votes as we were determining the most influential Christians of all time.
So, I would say, he is quite popular and renowned....
God Bless,
Ken L.

 

[now faith]

Um, no, he didn't. What Constantine did, plain and simple, was to legalize the practice of Christianity. This simply allowed Christians to practice their faith freely, and allowed the Church to grow unfettered.

He converted on his deathbed.

How can we claim Peter as the first pope? Because Christ said so in Matt 16:18. We believe that Christ taught his apostles and disciples, and this was the original Catholic Church. The disciples went out to the nations and preached, ensuring the continuation of it. Christ said to do this, and promised the Holy Spirit to protect His Church from teaching something heterodox to what He taught, and gave his apostles and disciples the means to tell the difference.

Um yes he did, he instructed Christians and non Christians practice sun worship. He made statements that he was reformed due to angel sighted. He professed that the Christian god was the only god then built the arch of Constantine to honor Apollo Diana and Hercules . He did legalize Christian worship as well pagan, in that was far better than the tormentors from the latter emperor. Can you give me bible reference as to 300 years prior to Constantine starting Catholicism Peters roll as Pope or any mentioned Catholicism.

 

[drjean]

Constantine converted on his deathbed? I don't think so... it was long before that, in fact he's known as the 1st Roman Emperor to be a Christian.

Throughout his life, Constantine ascribed his success to his conversion to Christianity and the support of the Christian God. The triumphal arch erected in his honour at Rome after the defeat of Maxentius ascribed the victory to the “inspiration of the Divinity” as well as to Constantine's own genius. A statue set up at the same time showed Constantine himself holding aloft a cross and the legend “By this saving sign I have delivered your city from the tyrant and restored liberty to the Senate and people of Rome.” After his victory over Licinius in 324, Constantine wrote that he had come from the farthest shores of Britain as God's chosen instrument for the suppression of impiety, and in a letter to the Persian king Shapur II he proclaimed that, aided by the divine power of God, he had come to bring peace and prosperity to all lands.




Constantine's personal “theology” emerges with particular clarity from a remarkable series of letters, extending from 313 to the early 320s, concerning the Donatist schism in North Africa. The Donatists maintained that those priests and bishops who had once lapsed from the Christian faith could not be readmitted to the church. Constantine's chief concern was that a divided church would offend the Christian God and so bring divine vengeance upon the Roman Empire and Constantine himself. Schism, in Constantine's view, was inspired by Satan. Its partisans were acting in defiance of the clemency of Christ, for which they might expect eternal damnation at the Last Judgment. Meanwhile, it was for the righteous members of the Christian community to show patience and long-suffering. In so doing they would be imitating Christ, and their patience would be rewarded in lieu of martyrdom—for actual martyrdom was no longer open to Christians in a time of peace for the church. Throughout, Constantine had no doubt that to remove error and to propagate the true religion were both his personal duty and a proper use of the imperial position. His claim to be “bishop of those outside the church” may be construed in this light.

Constantine I — History.com Articles, Video, Pictures and Facts

 

[Albion]

He is often mistakenly thought not to have converted to Christianity until near his death because he put off his baptism. That was a common practice at the time, but since we don't look at it in the same way nowadays, moderns don't suspect that it meant anything but that he hadn't yet accepted Christ.

(With apologies to all "Tradition solved everything and settled everything once and for all" folks out there.)

 

[Anoetos]

It pains me because I love the History Channel but I have to say that I don't really consider them authoritative.

 

[drjean]

OT yes, the history channel has rewritten our history as well... (are they also being edited by the muslim groups hired to rewrite our history books??? )

 

[Anoetos]

Not sure what you're talking about but I do know that the History Channel is a commercial television enterpirse with an interest in presenting programming which their viewers will want and sells advertising appropriately. I have noticed that they are not always above outrunning certain historical facts provided the main outlines are in tact. I find this to be more the case the further they get from representation of contemporary matters.

So...their regurgitation of the notion that Constantine actually converted at or shortly after the battle at the Milvian bridge is somewhat uncompelling.

 

[Anoetos]

Eusebius says he was baptized in 337 just before he died.

It is likely that he was a convert some time before this, of course.

But other scholars have pointed out the possibility that his conversion was not so much to Christ as to Sol Invictus, which may have been conflated in his mind, as, evidently they were in the minds of many Greeks at the time. It is usually mentioned that the Chi/Rho symbol he is said to have seen in his vision is very similar to the equal cross which was a symbol for the sun in some of the mystery religions and was associated with sun worship as Sol Invictus (the unconquerable sun). That he is said to have seen his vision in the face of the mid day sun would seem to lend credence to this idea...

Anyhow, the consensus is not sexy: Constantine probably converted intellectually some time between the battle of Milvian and his death but we don't really know when. His baptism was almost certainly just before his death

It's pure conjecture! but the idea that Christianity was perceived by him as a unifying political adhesive, useful in the wake of his recent appropriation of the imperium is also interesting. Drawing the conclusion that his "conversion" was more political and social expedient than true religious experience can be forgiven I think. It really does seem like conversion to Christianity became de rigueur for those seeking advancement in government or civil service. Anyway, whatever may be said, It certainly can't be just dismissed as fabrication except by those with an investment in the "traditional" perspective.

 

[Stephen Kendall]

The Roman Emperor Constantine was the first Roman Emperor to convert to Christianity and he popularized it all over the massive Empire. He even issued the Edict of Milan, legalizing Christian worship all over the empire.

If it wasnt for Constantine, Christianity wouldnt have spread over Europe as it did..our western culture was so influenced by the Roman culture, if it wasnt for Constantine, many of the West would still be worshiping Pagan Roman gods, or another religion which would have filled the void.

So why isnt Constantine a renowened figure in Christianity ? In all my catholic education and life I have never heard his name, or what he did. Only recently in a history class I did.

Or maybe he is, and its just where I grew up?

For Constantine, Christianity was more of a mystery and convenient power play. The dominance of ruling factions in the religion got its political teeth from this. It was ripe for turning into a constraining religious entity at the time. It defined itself and the Bible. There were saints and devils in the religion at the time. The saints were dominant where it counted: writing the Bible and missionary work. The devils controlled, constrained (even the saints) and devised its theologies (explaining why you don't really have to obey Jesus, just the church alone). It was an interesting period, but ripe for tares maturing in God's garden with his wheat.

 

[drjean]

After solidifying his position to gain complete control of the western portion of the empire in 312, the Emperor Constantine instituted the Edict of Milan, a "Magna Carta of religious liberty," which eventually changed the Empire’s religion and put Christianity on an equal footing with paganism. Almost overnight the position of the Christian Church was reversed from persecuted to legal and accepted. Constantine began to rely on the church for support, and it on him for protection. The Church and the Empire formed an alliance, which remains to this day. Very rapidly, the laws and policies of the Empire and the doctrine of the Church became one with Constantine as the interpreter of both law and policy. This was accomplished by eliminating hundreds of books thought to be against "Church" doctrine and watering down what remained by blending Christian beliefs and practice with long established Roman sanctioned pagan worship.

One of the reasons for confusion about his conversion is that back then they didn't count a conversion until baptism, and he was not baptised until he was on his deathbed....

The information presented by the subject line of the thread is a misnomer, and thereby disposed of adequately by subsequent posts, imo. (Meaning, we mostly all agree that He was a renown figure.)
Constantine believed that the Church and the State should be as close as possible. Constantine tolerated pagan practices, keeping pagan gods on coins and retaining his pagan high priest title "Pontifex Maximus" in order to maintain popularity with his former subjects. In 330 he began an assault on paganism but used a clever method of persuasion to force people to follow the laws by combining pagan worship with Christianity. He made December 25th, the birthday of the pagan Unconquered Sun god, the official holiday now celebrated as the birthday of Jesus. He also replaced the weekly day of worship by making rest on Saturday unlawful and forcing the new religion to honor the first, not the seventh day, as a day of rest. As a way of defining his concept of the new universal religion he simply classified everything "Jewish" to be an abomination. Considering almost every aspect of the Bible is "Jewish" by association, every doctrinal biblical principle was changed or eliminated. After 337 Constantine increased his purging of the more obvious aspects of paganism. [/font]

 

[Albion]

But other scholars have pointed out the possibility that his conversion was not so much to Christ as to Sol Invictus, which may have been conflated in his mind,

If that were so, why would he care to take sides in the Christian disputes of the era?

 

[Thekla]

After solidifying his position to gain complete control of the western portion of the empire in 312, the Emperor Constantine instituted the Edict of Milan, a "Magna Carta of religious liberty," which eventually changed the Empire’s religion and put Christianity on an equal footing with paganism. Almost overnight the position of the Christian Church was reversed from persecuted to legal and accepted. Constantine began to rely on the church for support, and it on him for protection. The Church and the Empire formed an alliance, which remains to this day. Very rapidly, the laws and policies of the Empire and the doctrine of the Church became one with Constantine as the interpreter of both law and policy. This was accomplished by eliminating hundreds of books thought to be against "Church" doctrine and watering down what remained by blending Christian beliefs and practice with long established Roman sanctioned pagan worship.

One of the reasons for confusion about his conversion is that back then they didn't count a conversion until baptism, and he was not baptised until he was on his deathbed....

The information presented by the subject line of the thread is a misnomer, and thereby disposed of adequately by subsequent posts, imo. (Meaning, we mostly all agree that He was a renown figure.)
Constantine believed that the Church and the State should be as close as possible. Constantine tolerated pagan practices, keeping pagan gods on coins and retaining his pagan high priest title "Pontifex Maximus" in order to maintain popularity with his former subjects. In 330 he began an assault on paganism but used a clever method of persuasion to force people to follow the laws by combining pagan worship with Christianity. He made December 25th, the birthday of the pagan Unconquered Sun god, the official holiday now celebrated as the birthday of Jesus. He also replaced the weekly day of worship by making rest on Saturday unlawful and forcing the new religion to honor the first, not the seventh day, as a day of rest. As a way of defining his concept of the new universal religion he simply classified everything "Jewish" to be an abomination. Considering almost every aspect of the Bible is "Jewish" by association, every doctrinal biblical principle was changed or eliminated. After 337 Constantine increased his purging of the more obvious aspects of paganism. [/font]

Can you provide proper citation, please ?
(Your source seems to have made some historical errors.)

 

[Anoetos]

If that were so, why would he care to take sides in the Christian disputes of the era?

Because he didn't see any difference between theM. Remember, these were a very syncretistic people. The very ones who gave us the mystery religions and Christian Gnosticism.

 

[drjean]

I'll look for it (home sick today)

Here's another though which also cites 312:

Constantine may not have been a Christian until his deathbed baptism. Constantine's Christian mother, St. Helena, may have converted him or he may have converted her. Most people consider Constantine a Christian from the Milvian Bridge in 312, but he wasn't baptized until a quarter century later. Today, depending on which branch and denomination of Christianity you're following, Constantine might not count as a Christian without the baptism, but it's not event that clear in the first few centuries of Christianity, when Christian dogma had yet to be fixed.

Constantine and Christianity - Was Constantine a Christian

 

[now faith]

I'll look for it (home sick today)

Here's another though which also cites 312: Constantine and Christianity - Was Constantine a Christian

After the Milvian battle he built the arch for Apollo Diana Hercules to celebrate his victory, I doubt he was a convert then.