Why I'm Anti-Theistic

[Ana the Ist]

I wanted to create this thread to clear a few things up.

I self identify as an atheist...and as an anti-theist (henceforth referred to as AT). There's a bad tendency amongst believers to conflate these two. The large majority of atheists on this site are not AT. The large majority of them will claim to respect the religious beliefs of others....a claim which I no longer make. I used to tell people that I respect their religious beliefs, but I realized I was only doing that out of the hope of gaining that same respect for my beliefs back from them. More often than not...I realized that my beliefs weren't respected, so I'm not going to pretend anymore.

That doesn't mean that I cannot engage you in a polite, civil, healthy exchange of ideas...I can certainly do that with religious people. However, I'm not going to concede that any religious beliefs deserve respect. Respect is earned...not handed out to everyone/everything only to be withdrawn in anger. After all, I'm not angry at religious beliefs or people. A more accurate statement would be that I pity the religious. I tend to see them as someone manipulated, someone duped, someone struggling. I hate to drag out an old cliche...but it's akin to someone walking around with a crutch. They've convinced themselves or have been convinced that the crutch helps them in their walk...that they would fall over without it...and that those without one are the ones struggling.

So why do I see things this way? Because truth. Truth is important. Truth can be ugly or beautiful...but it doesn't change according to our whims or based upon our desires/fears. Truth simply is...regardless of whether we accept it...regardless of if we even know it.

When we are faced with a difficult choice, we want truth to guide us. Specifically, we want it to guide us to outcomes that our emotions have made us desire. Truth doesn't do that. Truth guides us to outcomes that may be awful, difficult, or possibly even unbearable. Truth may also guide us to outcomes that we love, are enjoyable, or even beautiful. The point is that truth doesn't care.

Attempting to make difficult choices without truth leads to problems. It may provide a temporary relief...it may even seem to lead to success. Making choices without the truth, or worse in denial of truth, eventually results in conflict. It results in a conflict with reality...and that is a conflict that cannot be won. All you can do once you're faced with reality is accept it....or distort your perception of the truth even further.

Ultimately, that is what religion is to me. A massive distortion of the truth. A desperate attempt to distort reality. The comforts it provides are temporary...it doesn't negotiate one's life past obstacles, it denies they are there.

IMO it helps no one...it only leads to that conflict. It only holds one back. It only holds us all back.

That's why I'm an anti-theist.

 

[RC1970]

Thanks for your honesty. Also, understand that many Theists (anti-anti-theists) feel exactly the same way about Atheists (anti-theists).

Basically, just replace all references to "religion" in your post with "atheistic" and we would feel the same.

 

[Ana the Ist]

Thanks for your honesty. Also, understand that many Theists (anti-anti-theists) feel exactly the same way about Atheists (anti-theists).

Basically, just replace all references to "religion" in your post with "atheistic" and we would feel the same.

Lol believe me I know.

Still, I don't think that should prevent polite, civil discussion. We are adults after all.

Edit- Not all atheists are anti-theist though. Worth pointing out. A great many on this site at least, appear to be humanist.

 

[Tree of Life]

Interesting.

I could repeat almost all that you've said and replace "religion" with "atheism" and it would be true for me.

 

[Archaeopteryx]

Interesting.

I could repeat almost all that you've said and replace "religion" with "atheism" and it would be true for me.

In what way is atheism a crutch?

 

[Ana the Ist]

Interesting.

I could repeat almost all that you've said and replace "religion" with "atheism" and it would be true for me.

Someone beat you to it Lol.

 

[Ana the Ist]

In what way is atheism a crutch?

I think it's the sentiment they're latching onto.

 

[GrowingSmaller]

Survival International
http://www.survivalinternational.org/

Survival is the global movement for tribal peoples' rights. We're the only organisation that champions tribal peoples around the world. We help them defend their lives, protect their lands and determine their own futures.

 

[paulm50]

The religious I take exception to are those who are stuck in the past, a book written for it's time. A book they don't even stick to. And still tell us it's true. There are good lessons or rules to be learned from the bible, many have been replaced by secular laws, more have been made illegal. And some are purely for the oppression of others.

Oppression of women and gays are the most common.

 

[GrowingSmaller]

"Stuck in the past" in what way? Time travel, isnt that impossible, or do you mean the mod cons of atheism - hoovers, dishwashers etc - arent noticably there?

 

[GrowingSmaller]

Ther idea that history is directed towards (aimed at) Western scientific culture has been dropped by anthropologists I think.

 

[dysert]

The religious I take exception to are those who are stuck in the past, a book written for it's time. A book they don't even stick to. And still tell us it's true. There are good lessons or rules to be learned from the bible, many have been replaced by secular laws, more have been made illegal. And some are purely for the oppression of others.

Oppression of women and gays are the most common.

Many of us are convinced that the Bible was inspired by God and therefore true. Just because it was written millennia ago doesn't negate that. And if you believe (as many of us do) that there are absolute truths, then the passage of time doesn't negate that. Not "sticking to it" is a common human failure which speaks much more to the human condition than to the validity of the Bible. So it doesn't mean we're "stuck in the past" because we try to follow the Bible. We are simply trying to adhere to absolute truth as presented by God Himself.

 

[asherahSamaria]

Many of us are convinced that the Bible was inspired by God and therefore true. Just because it was written millennia ago doesn't negate that. And if you believe (as many of us do) that there are absolute truths, then the passage of time doesn't negate that. Not "sticking to it" is a common human failure which speaks much more to the human condition than to the validity of the Bible. So it doesn't mean we're "stuck in the past" because we try to follow the Bible. We are simply trying to adhere to absolute truth as presented by God Himself.

Can you give me an example of what "absolute truths" you believe to be the case?

There's a line between what is reasonable to believe to be true for all practical purposes and getting into hard solipsism which always gives me a headache

 

[GoldenBoy89]

I too consider myself anti-theist. I see religion as mostly useless to me. I'm sure it brings a lot of comfort to many people and helps many lives better lives than they would without their cosmic dictator, but as you said, it is a crutch. I'm sure at one point, religion was crucial for creating a common culture to rally people around and that helps social cohesion but in our modern world, I see no need for religion to fill that role anymore and you can tell by the antiquated beliefs that are pushed still to this day by modern religions.

I would never do anything to take away religion from those who have it and want it but just like our theistic friends like to tell us what's good for us, I will make sure to let them know what I think might be bad for them.

 

[paulm50]

Many of us are convinced that the Bible was inspired by God and therefore true. Just because it was written millennia ago doesn't negate that. And if you believe (as many of us do) that there are absolute truths, then the passage of time doesn't negate that. Not "sticking to it" is a common human failure which speaks much more to the human condition than to the validity of the Bible. So it doesn't mean we're "stuck in the past" because we try to follow the Bible. We are simply trying to adhere to absolute truth as presented by God Himself.

Some absolute truths, that are not.

Creation
Adam & Eve
Cain & Abel
Flood
Plagues
Sodom and Gomorrah
Job

"Not sticking to it"
The laws god gave you and Jesus affirmed must be kept.

Absolute truth can be proven to be true. One doesn't have to believe to believe it's true. You can't prove god gave anyone anything. If you claim he did, then Muslims can also claim the same. Along with Brigham Young, Joseph Smith, Charles Taze Russell, Hubbard and Benny Hinn. Unless you ask them for the same proof you're willing to give.

And anyone can take the words of one prophet, claim he was inspired by god and change them. This has happened in the bible and taken as truth. And there's the eternal problem with all religions, it seems to an outsider it's too easy to start an off shoot. http://www.humanreligions.info/religions.html and that's the short one. This is more complete. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_religions_and_spiritual_traditions#Abrahamic_religions And there's even more. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Christian_denominations The list goes on and on.

They can't all be following the absolute truth.

I defend your right to believe in what you believe, but don't ask me to respect that belief or counter it on a discussion forum. I give you the same privilege of replying with proof.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

I tend to examine supernatural events and phenomena scientifically. I was curious, do you examine forms of mysticism such as telepathy?

 

[dysert]

Can you give me an example of what "absolute truths" you believe to be the case?

There's a line between what is reasonable to believe to be true for all practical purposes and getting into hard solipsism which always gives me a headache

Sure. An absolute truth is that it's wrong to rape someone. Another is that it's wrong to molest a child. There are plenty.

 

[dysert]

Absolute truth can be proven to be true.
<snip>
I defend your right to believe in what you believe, but don't ask me to respect that belief or counter it on a discussion forum. I give you the same privilege of replying with proof.

I don't think that all absolute truth can be proven. Take rape, for example. I think it's an absolute that rape is wrong. Yet how do you prove it?

 

[Gregory Thompson]

I don't think that all absolute truth can be proven. Take rape, for example. I think it's an absolute that rape is wrong. Yet how do you prove it?

Rape is absolutely wrong, yet the culture is very rape conducive, everything and everyone that is used tends to be used the same way, people, the earth, the human heart.
In order to demonstrate that it is wrong one would need to first determine the root cause in society, then change all elements, blatant and figurative to not reflect this abusive pattern.
Only in replacing what is opposed does one express to the fullest extent how wrong it was.

 

[asherahSamaria]

Sure. An absolute truth is that it's wrong to rape someone. Another is that it's wrong to molest a child. There are plenty.

And yet a religious faction is currently using rape as a means of war in the middle east. Indeed it is encouraged. And they "think" they are completely justified in doing so. So it doesn't appear to be "universal" to them. Why is that?

There appears to be some fuzzy language here too. Our society deems rape to be an abhorrent act - quite rightly so. It is universally accepted today that the act is wrong - at least in the West. Yet the Bible is an example of writings from a time when it was completely sanctioned - there are Biblicial storys which certainly seem to show that rape was sanctioned by the deity in question, Numbers 31:7-18, Deuteronomy 20:10-14 - I say seems because I understand that theists will try to justify what the story's say - but it's pretty clear to me..

These universal truths seem to not be so universal after all.