Why I jumped ship to the left

[redleghunter]

My intent is to treat people, most especially those who have been here, no matter where they born, and lived here for years, as people rather than living violations. I can appreciate someone wanting to limit immigration, even if I don't agree with the limits they set. What I can't appreciate is people trying to deport peaceful people who have been making an honest living (regardless of the technicality of their entry) and especially the children they brought with them.

Now the above is a most different matter. If someone is here no matter how they got here, we deal with them as our brother or neighbor. I agree with that. That means Christians being Kingdom citizens to those in need.

When assigned to Fort Sill OK I lived in a very small rural town. My friend owned the house it was uninhabited for a couple of years and needed a lot of work. They only guy who would show up on time and do some work on the house spoke little English, worked hard and asked for a fair price. I knew every bit of money I paid him went to feeding, clothing and housing his family. Was he here illegally? Legally? Don't know. He needed to raise and support his family and dealt honestly with me.

So I agree with you there.

 

[smaneck]

We were taking in tens of thousands of Irish, Italians, Germans and Poles during the Civil War because they needed more hands to hold muskets.

My recollection is that we took them in after the Civil War, not so much during it.

If we want to take in more than we can absorb, we only need to look to Germany.

Where the unemployment rate is 4.7%?

If your intent is we make the US a giant refugee camp of unemployed people and their families dependent on local, state and federal agencies, with a quick path to citizenship, then you have made to logical change of political party.

Except immigrants are much less likely to use our social services than non-immigrants in the same economic class.

 

[BrianJK]

Now the above is a most different matter. If someone is here no matter how they got here, we deal with them as our brother or neighbor. I agree with that. That means Christians being Kingdom citizens to those in need.

When assigned to Fort Sill OK I lived in a very small rural town. My friend owned the house it was uninhabited for a couple of years and needed a lot of work. They only guy who would show up on time and do some work on the house spoke little English, worked hard and asked for a fair price. I knew every bit of money I paid him went to feeding, clothing and housing his family. Was he here illegally? Legally? Don't know. He needed to raise and support his family and dealt honestly with me.

So I agree with you there.

Fair enough. As I said, I can understand the desire to limit immigration, though I'd prefer the limits to be more lenient.

But so many Republicans have promised to work toward deportation, and that's one of the main aspects of the far right stance which drove me away.

 

[smaneck]

That's if new immigrants are working. We are not a low skill or semi skilled economy. We are mostly a tech economy.

Not really. There are plenty of other countries that do 'tech' as well or better than we do. We produce food better than any other country, it is largely immigrants who harvest that food. We also produce better weapons.

The only other option is for the Fed gov to turn over their land glut and offer plots of land for farms and ranches.

Very little federal lands are good for farming. The reason the federal government ended up with all those lands is because farmers did not come forward to claim homesteads. As for ranchers their herds were utilizing large, marginal plots of land for which they held no homesteads. After years of overgrazing ranchers towards the end of the 19th centuries began to engage in armed conflict over these lands. That's when the Feds stepped in, asserted their own rights over this land and began to regulate its use.

 

[Armoured]

Aw, a good haka can inspire anyone!

Not Australians. We're biologically immune.

 

[Armoured]

Neither Muslim nor American culture is monolithic. There are many Muslim cultures and many American cultures. Some have a greater number of shared values and customs and others a smaller number. All Muslims are also individuals and not clones of everyone else in the same environment. They can also change beliefs and values for better or worse.

It's almost as if...they're like humans!

 

[Rick Otto]

Or is it shorthand for WASP (white, Anglo-Saxon Protestant)?

Those are powerful accessories to the fashion of true power.
I suspect that most of the unregistered gold reserves are thrice what's admitted, and mostly in the hands of the Asian globalist.
One world government is inevitable. The question is will it be humane (Godly).

 

[jimmyjimmy]

My intent is to treat people, most especially those who have been here, no matter where they born, and lived here for years, as people rather than living violations. I can appreciate someone wanting to limit immigration, even if I don't agree with the limits they set. What I can't appreciate is people trying to deport peaceful people who have been making an honest living (regardless of the technicality of their entry) and especially the children they brought with them.

Based on your logic, it would be OK if I steal, so long as, a) enough time has gone by, and b) I am making an "honest" living now.

Crime is crime, not mater how much time has gone by.

 

[jimmyjimmy]

I just hate that we think that should cease.

This is a straw man. Legal immigration has not ceased. Also, when my great grandparents came here, they did so within the law.

 

[OzSpen]

I'm sure they show for such events. I believe the ultimate motive is for MLB to get their hooks in Australia setting up pro team leagues to have another talent pool.

The Australian League Baseball is already established Down Under. Perhaps the MLB is wanting to extend its tentacles to encompass a couple teams in this country.

 

[Aryeh Jay]

Now the above is a most different matter. If someone is here no matter how they got here, we deal with them as our brother or neighbor. I agree with that. That means Christians being Kingdom citizens to those in need.

When assigned to Fort Sill OK I lived in a very small rural town. My friend owned the house it was uninhabited for a couple of years and needed a lot of work. They only guy who would show up on time and do some work on the house spoke little English, worked hard and asked for a fair price. I knew every bit of money I paid him went to feeding, clothing and housing his family. Was he here illegally? Legally? Don't know. He needed to raise and support his family and dealt honestly with me.

So I agree with you there.

Two years ago when I was still on active duty, I lived in a town in Michigan that was dependent on migrant labor to pick carrots, onions and in the fall, apples. Those guys were out there from dark to dark, ate their lunch while working, had one portapotty for 50 people and were doing some back breaking work for fairly low wages. I didn’t know about their status either, but the never missed a day and they never complained about the work or the pay.

Now today, I work with 100% I-9 verified American workers that belong to a union. They start at $15.00 an hour but all make much more than that, they get two paid 15 min breaks, 1 30 min lunch break, benefits, and work 7.5 hours a day with weekends and holidays off. All I hear is complaints and 70% of the time the work is the minimum that would be acceptable.

 

[Armoured]

Based on your logic, it would be OK if I steal, so long as, a) enough time has gone by, and b) I am making an "honest" living now.

Crime is crime, not mater how much time has gone by.

Ever heard of "statute of limitations"?

 

[OzSpen]

Ever heard of "statute of limitations"?

The kookaburras with the Australian flag is a photograph from the Daily Mail, 26 January 2016. 'Is this the most Aussie photo ever?...'

 

[BrianJK]

Based on your logic, it would be OK if I steal, so long as, a) enough time has gone by, and b) I am making an "honest" living now.

Crime is crime, not mater how much time has gone by.

Nothing of the sort. The entire field of Confederate Soldiers were pardoned after the war, though they had committed crimes according to the law. But if crime is crime, why let them walk free?

This is a straw man. Legal immigration has not ceased. Also, when my great grandparents came here, they did so within the law.

This is no straw man. It was hyperbole. Your great grandparents didn't have to wait years in order to be let in. Mine didn't either. If they had, there wasn't much chance of getting a boat back, so being a horrible illegal would probably be their only option. Even so, they were shunned for being filthy Catholic immigrants who only deserved the basest of jobs. Not much has changed, except the asinine length of time which basically serves to keep anyone who was like my great grandparents from entering in any semblance of a similar fashion.

 

[Armoured]

The kookaburras with the Australian flag is a photograph from the Daily Mail, 26 January 2016. 'Is this the most Aussie photo ever?...'

I didn't know that's where it came from. I got it from a friend's facebook.

I'd link you to the Reddit page they're talking about, but, you know, language.

 

[smaneck]

Those are powerful accessories to the fashion of true power.
I suspect that most of the unregistered gold reserves are thrice what's admitted, and mostly in the hands of the Asian globalist.
One world government is inevitable. The question is will it be humane (Godly).

I would agree that global governance is the only way to control multi-national corporations. As for gold being largely in the hands of Asians, that has always been the case throughout world history. Asia doesn't produce much gold, but they value it more and horde it. And it is not just the globalists. Virtually every family whether it be in China, India or the Middle East has more gold than the average American. And none of this 10K and 14K stuff. You can't get married without a decent amount of gold to give your wife.

 

[redleghunter]

Not really. There are plenty of other countries that do 'tech' as well or better than we do. We produce food better than any other country, it is largely immigrants who harvest that food. We also produce better weapons.



Very little federal lands are good for farming. The reason the federal government ended up with all those lands is because farmers did not come forward to claim homesteads. As for ranchers their herds were utilizing large, marginal plots of land for which they held no homesteads. After years of overgrazing ranchers towards the end of the 19th centuries ranchers began to engage in armed conflict over these lands. That's when the Feds stepped in, asserted their own rights over this land and began to regulate its use.

What better way than to give the land to those who will use it to sustain themselves. Ted Turner has a good portion of land suitable as well.

 

[jimmyjimmy]

Nothing of the sort. The entire field of Confederate Soldiers were pardoned after the war, though they had committed crimes according to the law. But if crime is crime, why let them walk free?



This is no straw man. It was hyperbole. Your great grandparents didn't have to wait years in order to be let in. Mine didn't either. If they had, there wasn't much chance of getting a boat back, so being a horrible illegal would probably be their only option. Even so, they were shunned for being filthy Catholic immigrants who only deserved the basest of jobs. Not much has changed, except the asinine length of time which basically serves to keep anyone who was like my great grandparents from entering in any semblance of a similar fashion.

If you don't like the law try to change it, if not, obey it, which is your Christian duty.

 

[BrianJK]

If you don't like the law try to change it, if not, obey it, which is your Christian duty.

I agree, it is mine. Though I do believe in grace for others... Something the "deport all the illegals and their illegal brats too" advocates haven't displayed, at least from my vantage point.

Though I do remember several people in the new testament breaking laws... Perhaps there are exceptions?

 

[smaneck]

Two years ago when I was still on active duty, I lived in a town in Michigan that was dependent on migrant labor to pick carrots, onions and in the fall, apples. Those guys were out there from dark to dark, ate their lunch while working, had one portapotty for 50 people and were doing some back breaking work for fairly low wages. I didn’t know about their status either, but the never missed a day and they never complained about the work or the pay.

I think anyone who has ever worked with immigrants and migrant workers can attest to the same thing. Whenever they are called "unskilled" I want to say, "You try doing what they are doing!" I worked in a frozen food packing plant along side them. I could not keep up. I wasn't lazy, I just wasn't as good.

This is why the United Farm Workers runs a "take my job" website. They offer to find a job in migrant labor for every American who thinks these immigrants are stealing their jobs. Keeping it, of course, is your own problem.