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Why I Don't Believe In Atheism's Creation Myth
- Thread starter Agonaces of Susa
- Start date
If god created you knowing which choices you will make, then he created you to make those choices. What you're saying is that god gives you the illusion of having a choice, when, in fact, you don't.
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Doveaman
Re-Created, Not Evolved.
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I think your argument is flawed from the start.
You keep saying you have no choice when in fact you do. You seem to think that God knowing your choice means you have no choice, but you haven't shown why this is the case. Your choice is not set in stone, it is yours to freely make. God knowing what you will choose doesn't cause you to choose it. You freely choose it. Do you feel at this moment like you are being forced to choose?
God is not only said to be omniscient, but also omnipresent, the I AM. We might expect that an omnipresent God can experience our future and observe what we will freely choose in the future. God can then make our future be known in our present. What God makes known in our present would then be based on what He observed in our future, not based on what He forced us to choose.
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If I may humbly put in my two cents in here on the topic of choice, or free will? Having not only faith in Christ, but a knowledge of Him as well. Not only knowing about God, but having an everyday living realtionship with Him. I find it very hard to accept that we are (for lack of a better term) just a program in God' computer. Everything predetermined in our lives before we are even born. Would that not mean that God is an accessory to every sin we commit? I believe the prime reason we are created to begin with is to have the "choice" to love God, to obey Him, to have a realationship with Him, or not. God could of easily created us like robots where we obey His every command. That in no way is intimate. Would that then be considered forced love? Why put the tree in the garden of Eden if there were no choice?
Our free will in not restricted because God knows what our choices will be. If I was to place a chocolate bar on the table and a bowl of broccoli, I know ahead of time what my nine year old is going to choose, but me knowing has no influence on her choice.It is hard to find a analogy when comparing our situation with God's. Although there is no searching His understanding He does allow us bits and pieces, just not His fullness.
Our free will in not restricted because God knows what our choices will be. If I was to place a chocolate bar on the table and a bowl of broccoli, I know ahead of time what my nine year old is going to choose, but me knowing has no influence on her choice.It is hard to find a analogy when comparing our situation with God's. Although there is no searching His understanding He does allow us bits and pieces, just not His fullness.
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sandwiches
Mas sabe el diablo por viejo que por diablo.
I asked "Can you make a choice that goes contrary to what God already knows you will make?" The answer was 'No.' If you can't pick but ONE choice, then there is no choice, at all.
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sandwiches
Mas sabe el diablo por viejo que por diablo.
Someone already responded to the analogy of the chocolate bar on the table. You don't KNOW what your son will do unless you are saying that he is exactly what you said we're not: a robot OR you're claiming to have knowledge of the future. If you're claiming that he is hardwired and incapable of choosing something other than the chocolate, then you're saying he has no choice. If you're saying that you KNOW the future and his choice will be the chocolate without a doubt, then he has no choice.
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Doveaman
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Even this idea doesn't prevent the choices from being free. Knowing what a choice will be is not the same as causing it to be. You are yet to show why knowing a choice means no free choice.
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sandwiches
Mas sabe el diablo por viejo que por diablo.
You've been told before. Because if you're INCAPABLE of picking but that which God knows you will, then you have no choice.
You need to make up your mind. We're either capable or incapable of picking something other than what God knows we will. Which is it?
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Actually there are a number of choices in this scenario. My daughter could pick the broccoli. She could say no to both. She could pick up the bowl of broccoli and throw it at me. As I said it is hard to make an analogy comparing us with God in any given situation. What I was saying is though I may know her choice, me knowing does not restrict her choice.
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Doveaman
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And that is the flaw in your argument. Whatever you pick is your choice, and you could have made a different choice if you had chose to. What God knows doesn't affect that, but for some reason you seem to think it does. Why?
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But it does imply that the person could even pick the other choice? That's the point. What if God "knows" you're going to eat some broccoli. But you, in all of your free-will, decide not to. Then God was wrong in his prediction.
Having a premonition of the future implies that there is no different way for the future to play out.
God either knows, and choice doesn't exist, or choice exists, and God doesn't know what you're going to do.
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Either god made you and every choice you will ever make, or he didn't.
Which is it? If you believe your god has no control of your choices, then he is not god, or you are more likely a Deist, and not a Theist.
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Has anybody here read Watchmen? This paradox comes up in discussions of how Dr. Manhattan can see the future, the past, and the present all at once. It could be that he is powerless to change it, or that since he sees the future he conforms to it. Either way, it is very deterministic.
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sandwiches
Mas sabe el diablo por viejo que por diablo.
I just read this post. I see that you believe in a barbaric deity who has no better ways to convince people than to burn them... wow...
No wonder your morality is warped.
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Doveaman needs to take some philosophy classes. Dude - if God KNOWS the future, how can it change?! If the future cannot change, our choices are meaningless! Do you even get what anyone is trying to tell you?
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