Just as you repeatedly do, except it's from your viewpoint Biblewriter, and you think it's explicit.I did not accuse you of collusion. I simply said that all of you do this repeatedly.
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Just as you repeatedly do, except it's from your viewpoint Biblewriter, and you think it's explicit.I did not accuse you of collusion. I simply said that all of you do this repeatedly.
Just as you repeatedly do, except it's from your viewpoint Biblewriter, and you think it's explicit.
Here again you try to say there's some collusion going on Biblewriter! You have no power here, and you certainly don't have a "lock" on what the scriptures say.This forum is expressly dedicated to eschatology, and you and your friends are attempting to shut down all discussion of eschatology, claiming that all the prophecies do not mean what they say.
Saying that doesn't make it true Biblewriter. Who has the forum dismissed for trolling? NO ONE Biblewriter!!! So once again this is you being frustrated that another view of eschatology is gaining ground...and it's not just in this forum! This is a "reformation of eschatology" that's happening in American Christianity. People are realizing they need to really read their scriptures.In attempting to shut down all discussion of eschatology, all of you continually troll threads about eschatological subjects, trying to derail any real discussion of whatever happens to be the subject of the thread.
Here again you try to say there's some collusion going on Biblewriter!
You say what you think they mean, and I point out what they actually say.You have no power here, and you certainly don't have a "lock" on what the scriptures say.
I will express what I think the prophecies say!
You need to study the rules. Particularly the one against derailing threads.This is "Christians Forums" NOT "Biblewriter's Forums". If you only want your view expressed go to the "Pretrib Safe House" or the "Dispensational Theology" section.
You need to get this loud and clear: I will express my view of eschatology here...and as long as it complies with the forum rules, you can only express your view, just as I do. If we "bump heads" from time to time, so be it. When it's all said and done all I will say is "thanks...the Lord Bless"...and move on.
And I don't mind you expressing your views, as long as you refrain from derailing threads, from posting comments that have zero bearing on the subject of the thread. But I intend to continue exposing the undeniable fact that your views directly contradict what the scriptures explicitly say.Saying that doesn't make it true Biblewriter. Who has the forum dismissed for trolling? NO ONE Biblewriter!!! So once again this is you being frustrated that another view of eschatology is gaining ground...and it's not just in this forum! This is a "reformation of eschatology" that's happening in American Christianity. People are realizing they need to really read their scriptures.
Get ready Biblewriter...I'll be here a LONG TIME...(God willing)! I'm not 1disciple, I don't mind that people oppose my view of eschatology!
So BW, the Rev is literal, you say.
You say, it is mid 90s. We both know it says the time is at hand, the thing is coming quickly, is about to happen. Now let's say this comes up in a discussion of a thread called "the Rev is written in the mid 90s." Any thinking person is going to then wonder:
is it more likely that the 'other' school of scholars who think it speaks to the disasters of the mid 70s was why John said 3 ways that it was for immediate use are correct, rather than the mid 90s scholars, when nothing seems to have 'literally' happened?
Therefore, do not criticize derailing when it is actually taking up a perfectly necessary discussion. You are not the only person with 'logic'; you are the only person who has an organizational 'corner' on all the material.
Or do you have a ton of things that happened in the mid 90s that we don't know about?
Look in the mirror then...because if you're saying I derail threads...you definitely are guilty yourself.And I don't mind you expressing your views, as long as you refrain from derailing threads, from posting comments that have zero bearing on the subject of the thread. But I intend to continue exposing the undeniable fact that your views directly contradict what the scriptures explicitly say.
Interplanner said in post 325:
So BW, the Rev is literal, you say.
Interplanner said in post 325:
You say, it is mid 90s. We both know it says the time is at hand, the thing is coming quickly, is about to happen.
Yes, I did see your question, and i thoroughly understood your argument. That I why I gave you GOD's answer to your objection. If you don't like it, take it up with God.BW,
Yes, I should have limited myself to the examples I was giving (about to give): "quickly" "at hand" "very soon." I understood we were to take these literally. I'm really quite sure you don't mean some kind of magic-symbolism is in these terms! Like a numeric value for each Greek letter or something.
But can you not see my question: if it is going to say these things in normal language, where would a person be more likely to think it was refering: to the upheavals of the 60s (correction, too) or the 90s?
I notice that Peter says from the start that there is a huge range. He doesn't say it is very soon and then say, 'btw, "very soon" is meaningless.' It is the Rev that says it so many times. My questions are about the Rev. I just can't imagine him having gone through the events and then fiddle with time-handles. It is more sensible that he was speaking of them.
Well Jack I can't and won't go with 95 AD.Let's say John wrote Revelation in 95, 96 A.D., ie, which I have no contexual doubts about, what do you consider the 'main subject of Revelation,' and which part of Revelation do you consider 'the burden of Revelation.'
You obviously have spent a lot of time in this area, and just wanted to compare to the 'big boys,' eg, Christian think-tankers, and etc.
Thank you again,
Small potatoes, Old Jack
BW, but Peter has no Judaic detail like the Rev. 2 Pet 3 is indeed God's answer about delay, but not about the Rev and all the convulsions, nor is it about the 'immediate' time-handles.
If I'm not mistaken, Jack is now asking the same question. What would be immediate in the 90s?
Well Jack I can't and won't go with 95 AD.
When you look at the fact that Paul and Peter are both martyred, and their warnings beforehand and then John mentioning NOT ONE word about Jerusalem being destroyed and the exile??? Let's not to leave out the fact that John is in his 90's...I just don't see that at all.
BW, you opt out of literalism when you want. It is really annoying.
When John the Baptist said the kingdom of God or the time was 'engus' it was that year. "When you see Jerusalem surrounded, you know that her destruction is 'engus.' Luke uses the same when saying the Kingdom would come by that generation. Maybe that's what will help you see this: yes, it could be as much as generation, and so the question goes back to the 90s. We know of things that happened in the 60s that were 'engus' and we don't know of things that happened in the 90s that were. A person would naturally have to say that they (Mt 24 & //s) meant for quite a bit to be refered to the DofJ, and that has a gravitational pull on the Rev; many scholars call Mt 24 & //s 'the little apocalypses.'
Then you can reasonably allow for some distant future things, which, as I recall, I have usually done. I call it Mt24B. And even though it is introduced by 'eutheos' we know it shifts from Judea/temple/Jerusalem to the world/universe.
I assert that the question Peter's skeptics are asking is right about that, not about the DofJ. I think once the DofJ happened they probably got the point; maybe not.
An ordinary reading of these passages together would make you think that Mt24B was to be immediate (yes, the word is used) and that is why some of us sync the Rev with that. In some cases, it uses the same language about 'every eye will see him, even those who pierced him.'
shturt678s said in post 336:
You're of a higher paygrade than my humble self, yet you're not able to see "all" in their tombs shall rise leaving not one "left behind." (Jn.5:28, 29)
shturt678s said in post 336:
Then Jn.6:39 & Dan.12:2.
shturt678s said in post 336:
Then Jn.6:39 & Dan.12:2.
Regarding John 5:28-29, it wasn't until later (cf. John 16:12)
that Jesus showed the apostle John that there will be two (still-unfulfilled) bodily resurrections separated by 1,000 years (Revelation 20:5).
John 5:28-29 can include both of these, for the original Greek word translated as "hour" doesn't have to mean a literal hour, but can refer figuratively to any period of time. For example, the last "hour" of 1 John 2:18 (Greek) has been going on for the last 2,000 years. So the "hour" of everyone's still-future bodily resurrection (John 5:28-29) can easily span over a 1,000-year period (Revelation 20:5).
Also, at both the first and 2nd resurrection, some will undergo "the resurrection of life", while others will undergo "the resurrection of damnation" (John 5:29). For the first resurrection, at Jesus' never-fulfilled 2nd coming (Revelation 19:7 to 20:6; 1 Corinthians 15:21-23,51-53; 1 Thessalonians 4:15-16), before the millennium (Revelation 20:4-6), will be of all those who became Christians (1 Corinthians 15:21-23). And some of them will lose their salvation at the 2nd coming (e.g. Luke 12:45-46), so that their resurrection will be a "resurrection of damnation" (John 5:29), a resurrection "unto shame and everlasting contempt" (Daniel 12:2), because of such things as unrepentant sin (Hebrews 10:26-29), unrepentant laziness (Matthew 25:26,30), or apostasy (Hebrews 6:4-8).
The 2nd resurrection, at the great white throne judgment (Revelation 20:11-15), after the future millennium and subsequent events are over (Revelation 20:7-15), will include all those of all times who never became Christians, and all those who became Christians during the millennium (Isaiah 66:19-21). At the great white throne judgment, those Christians (of all times) who will lose their salvation, and so will have their names blotted out of the book of life (Revelation 3:5), might be cast into the everlasting punishment of the lake of fire along with all non-Christians (Revelation 20:15,10, Matthew 25:41,46, Revelation 14:10-11, Mark 9:45-46).
In John 6:39-40 and John 12:48, the original Greek word translated as the last "day" (hemera, G2250) doesn't have to mean the last 24-hour day, but can be used figuratively to refer to a much longer period of time (e.g. see the Greek of 2 Corinthians 6:2; 2 Peter 3:8, and John 8:56). John 6:39-48 and John 12:48 will occur in the last period of time of this present earth, but they won't occur on the same 24-hour day (Revelation 20:5).
For when Jesus returns, only the church will be bodily resurrected and finally-judged (1 Corinthians 15:21-23, Revelation 20:5; Psalms 50:3-5, cf. Mark 13:27; Matthew 25:19-30; 2 Corinthians 5:10, Luke 12:45-48). The obedient part of the bodily resurrected church, including those in the church who had been beheaded by the Antichrist, will then reign on the earth with the returned Jesus for 1,000 years (Revelation 20:4-6, Revelation 5:10, Revelation 2:26-29, Psalms 66:3-4, Psalms 72:8-11, Zechariah 14:3-21). Only sometime after the 1,000 years and the subsequent Gog/Magog rebellion are over (Revelation 20:7-10, Ezekiel chapters 38-39) will the rest of the dead (of all times) be bodily resurrected (Revelation 20:5) and finally-judged at the great white throne judgment (Revelation 20:11-15).
The last days began in the first century AD with Jesus' first coming (Hebrews 1:2) and the Holy Spirit's pouring out at the Pentecost in Acts 2 (Acts 2:16-17). The last days can be the last 3, roughly 1,000-year "days" (2 Peter 3:8) of the 7, roughly 1,000-year "days" from the creation of Adam in roughly 4,000 BC to the future end of the present earth and the creation of the new earth (Revelation 21:1) in roughly 3,000 AD. So the last "days" can be the roughly 3,000 years from Jesus' first coming to sometime after the future millennium (Revelation 20:4-6), which will be part of the last, roughly 1,000-year "day" (2 Peter 3:8), which could begin at Jesus' (never fulfilled) 2nd coming (1 Corinthians 1:7-8).
Daniel 12:2 will occur at the church's resurrection at Jesus' 2nd coming (1 Corinthians 15:21-23,51-53; 1 Thessalonians 4:15-16, Revelation 19:7 to 20:6), which will occur immediately after the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24 (Matthew 24:29-31; 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8, Revelation 19:7 to 20:6). For some in the church will lose their salvation at Jesus' 2nd coming (e.g. Luke 12:45-46), so that their resurrection will be a resurrection "unto shame and everlasting contempt" (Daniel 12:2), a "resurrection of damnation" (John 5:29), because of such things as unrepentant sin (Hebrews 10:26-29), unrepentant laziness (Matthew 25:26,30), or apostasy (Hebrews 6:4-8).