Why high food prices are good for the poor.

[timewerx]

I think the image of poverty we have in the States is a bit skewed. I've been broke, but I've never been in want for long.



I wish I had a answer. I don't believe there is a good one. There is a long history of fear in the States when it comes to socialism. There is some irony, too. People screamed "Socialism!' when the Social Security Act was coming into being. Now, conservatives are some of its biggest defenders. We will pool our money together for a common fire department, common police force, common roads, etc. But try to pool some money together for health care or to help those in a financial strait and people cry "Evil! Socialism!"

Many people can't seem to differentiate between socialism and communism. It's like saying all Christians are the same, haha. But, with our sub-par education system ignorance is bliss.

And I think part of it is simple greed. Greed coupled with an inordinate worship of individualism. At any rate, it's strange to see Christians begrudge helping others. Very un-Jesusy.

Sad really.

If you go to Iceland. The rich don't mind paying higher taxes. And they know where that money is going into. And this is one of the factors that eliminated poverty in Iceland.

The problem is with the national culture, not the economic system. Poverty always follows greed and the love of money.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

The problem is with the national culture, not the economic system. Poverty always follows greed and the love of money.

This seems to suggest that the greedy, money loving rich are the cause of poverty for others. However many poor are victims of their own greed for money. The economic system is always there however and is usually able to reward those who are willing to work.

 

[timewerx]

However many poor are victims of their own greed for money.

Not always. Not usually where I live.

I don't know about in USA but can you give me more details how the poor are greedy over there? Things they waste their money on, etc?

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Not always. Not usually where I live.

I don't know about in USA but can you give me more details how the poor are greedy over there? Things they waste their money on, etc?

Greedy, or lazy, people looking to make 'a quick buck' often find themselves in the poorhouse, especially criminals. They often leave their families destitute as well as they serve their prison time, and even afterwards as employment is denied them.
Such constitute a large percentage of America's poor.

 

[Dave-W]

A bit too socialistic.

So is the safety net your OP assumes.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

So is the safety net your OP assumes.

If our safety net went as far as the Democratic Socialist countries there would be little poverty. If we raised taxes specifically to eliminate poverty, it would be quasi-socialism.

 

[Dave-W]

If our safety net went as far as the Democratic Socialist countries there would be little poverty. If we raised taxes specifically to eliminate poverty, it would be quasi-socialism.

Actually, ANY form of safety net is a type of socialism.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Actually, ANY form of safety net is a type of socialism.

Actually they are social programs. Socialism involves 'government ownership of the means of production'.

 

[Dave-W]

Actually they are social programs. Socialism involves 'government ownership of the means of production'.

Semantics. Spin. Alt definitions.

Government (or population) ownership of production is COMMUNISM.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Semantics. Spin. Alt definitions.

Government (or population) ownership of production is COMMUNISM.

Communism and Socialism are two sides of the same coin.

 

[timewerx]

Greedy, or lazy, people looking to make 'a quick buck' often find themselves in the poorhouse, especially criminals. They often leave their families destitute as well as they serve their prison time, and even afterwards as employment is denied them.
Such constitute a large percentage of America's poor.

Also common where I live.

Let's not be quick to judge or be too harsh on them.

Here you have generations of infancy and childhood neglect and negative culture. It literally causes poor development of the brain, negatively affecting IQ, mental stability, etc.

If that's not enough, they were sometimes forced to join gangs, against their will.

And then there's also a factor of genes. Genes that are more successful in a highly structured society versus genes that is designed to cope with the harsh environment of untamed wilderness.

Are you absolutely confident with 100% certainty you would have done any better if you were born in the same circumstances?

There won't be healing as long as we keep blaming others for things we could have actually made a difference, if only we are just a bit more like Christ.

Imagine yourself hopeless and even those who suppose to know Christ blames you and offers no help and denies you a chance to fix your life. Just terrible.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Also common where I live.

Let's not be quick to judge or be too harsh on them.

Here you have generations of infancy and childhood neglect and negative culture. It literally causes poor development of the brain, negatively affecting IQ, mental stability, etc.

If that's not enough, they were sometimes forced to join gangs, against their will.

And then there's also a factor of genes. Genes that are more successful in a highly structured society versus genes that is designed to cope with the harsh environment of untamed wilderness.

Are you absolutely confident with 100% certainty you would have done any better if you were born in the same circumstances?

There won't be healing as long as we keep blaming others for things we could have actually made a difference, if only we are just a bit more like Christ.

Imagine yourself hopeless and even those who suppose to know Christ blames you and offers no help. Just terrible.

Ok, we have sympathy for the those who were dealt a bad hand in life. Now what? What should we do that we aren't already doing?

 

[timewerx]

You are prying the lid off of a rather large can of worms.

John 12:25
Anyone who loves their life will lose it, while anyone who hates their life in this world will keep it for eternal life.

If Christians hate their lives instead of loving their lives too much, it wouldn't be problem.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

John 12:25
Anyone who loves their life will lose it, while anyone who hates their life in this world will keep it for eternal life.

If Christians hate their lives instead of loving their lives too much, it wouldn't be problem.

Are you saying it's better to join those stuck in the mud rather than helping them out of it?

 

[timewerx]

Are you saying it's better to join those stuck in the mud rather than helping them out of it?

No. What I'm saying is we give them a chance. A chance to catch up.

Cut them some slack in getting and keeping more decent jobs. Make it easier, more affordable for their children/youth to get to college.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

No. What I'm saying is we give them a chance. A chance to catch up.

They can't catch up but they can start out on same path as those who are doing ok. Just follow the traditional rules. Many of the poor try to make their own rules, and discover too late that they don't work.

Cut them some slack in getting and keeping more decent jobs. Make it easier, more affordable for their children/youth to get to college.

I see no downside to starting out at a minimum wage job. It's good training.

 

[timewerx]

They can't catch up but they can start out on same path as those who are doing ok.

I don't think it's fair to impose the same standards or have the same expectations to someone with severely disadvantaged background vs someone who grew up in a positively stimulating environment.

The Lord doesn't work in that way.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

I don't think it's fair to impose the same standards or have the same expectations to someone with severely disadvantaged background vs someone who grew up in a positively stimulating environment.

The Lord doesn't work in that way.

That's why some go to college, and others go to work. You play with the hand you're dealt.

God doesn't 'poof' everyone into equality.

 

[grasping the after wind]

The more food costs the more opportunity for saving, by reducing food costs. Sounds counterintuitive, but as the high cost of food (as calculated by gov't agencies) is incorporated into family food budgets the opportunity to save increases. This is because the actual cost of nutritious food is much lower than the government guidelines indicate. Therefore by adopting a sensible diet low income families can actually benefit by having extra money in their budget for other needs.

Put another way, if one's wages are based on the cost of food being $200 per month and you only spend $150 per month you have $50 per month to save or spend elsewhere. For a family of four the potential for saving on food cost is substantial, while still enjoying quality food.

Additionally, while SNAP is intended to be a supplemental program the benefits are actually wholly sufficient to provide 100 percent the nutrition needs of it's participants. So poor families can enjoy healthful meals at no cost to themselves.

Wages are not based upon the cost of food so your premise is faulty. Wages are based upon the value of the labor as determined by supply and demand. The cost of food is irrelevant to that.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Wages are not based upon the cost of food so your premise is faulty. Wages are based upon the value of the labor as determined by supply and demand. The cost of food is irrelevant to that.

Food costs are figured into the general cost of living, and especially into the supplemental food programs. Cost of living is figured into wages as well. As a (past) union bargaining board member I have argued for wage increases based on inflation and the increased cost of living numbers, which included food cost.

In many cases wages are based on whatever either party can force upon the other.