Why gays, lesbians, transgendered, and others are born

[Stinker2]

For a number of years I held the fundamentalist position that the gay community must be classified as sinful. That they should not be classified with those suffering from a genetic anomaly from birth. I re-examined my teaching and learned that I was mistaught and the real reason it took a while for me to adopt the truth was because I was taught for years that I already had the truth and I was very proud of that fact. It also helped a great deal that my conservative brethren published material that inflamed my scriptural pride by declaring that the Gay community was out to overthrow the Lord's church and the Christian influence in the U.S.A.

When I came to facing the truth, I had to find out for myself why God would allow people to be born with these kinds of anomalies that would draw the worst rejection from the heterosexual community. It finally made sense to me when I studied the Bible with no prior mental poisoning:



1 Corinthians 1:25-29 (King James Version)



25Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men.
26For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called:
27But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;
28And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are: 29That no flesh should glory in his presence.


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God uses these people as His 'bait' in everyday situations. These are people who are sent in much like the two vulnerable men that were sent in to Sodom. We do not know why God choses this as one of His methods of confirming things....we just know by the scriptures that He does. They are people who are perfect for God's work in this area.

 

[OllieFranz]

In other words, you are saying that they, and others who are different, are that way as much as a test of our compassion and tolerance for those who are different as any other purpose He may have for their lives. Some (but not necessarily all) of them may need extra patience or have other needs that God expects us to meet. That would accord with Matthew Chapter 25 (The parable of the Last Judgment)

 

[Criada]

I'm not sure about the idea that God would try to 'bait' people to sin... seems rather out of character.

 

[Criada]

God doesn't put thieves, murderers etc on earth, He creates human beings who He loves, and He gives them free will. Some use that to commit crimes - but God still loves themm and will forgive them if they repent.
I still don't really see how the existence of either criminals or homosexuals is a test of your faith - unless of course you are tempted to emulate them.

 

[Lady Bug]

The Christian and other conservative religious communities do not seem to have enough compassion for those who are struggling with homosexual tendencies, it really bothers me.

 

[Stinker2]

In other words, you are saying that they, and others who are different, are that way as much as a test of our compassion and tolerance for those who are different as any other purpose He may have for their lives. Some (but not necessarily all) of them may need extra patience or have other needs that God expects us to meet. That would accord with Matthew Chapter 25 (The parable of the Last Judgment)

I would say you were correct in our compassion and tolerance being tested by God. To me, it is the other purpose that is so very interesting! I think it is the mark of a truly converted (Acts 3:19) person when they respond (not react) to the homosexual and other 'weak' things of the world. It is the revealing from within themselves of the lack of sin, or, hardening from practiced sin. The ones whom God is targeting, seem to react negatively when confronted with the 'weak' things of the world.

 

[Criada]

I would say you were correct in our compassion and tolerance being tested by God. To me, it is the other purpose that is so very interesting! I think it is the mark of a truly converted (Acts 3:19) person when they respond (not react) to the homosexual and other 'weak' things of the world. It is the revealing from within themselves of the lack of sin, or, hardening from practiced sin. The ones whom God is targeting, seem to react negatively when confronted with the 'weak' things of the world.

I am still not sure what you are getting at... what do you think is the 'right' response to these 'weak' things?
What is the negative reaction you are talking about/

Sorry.. maybe I'm just tired, my brain doesn't seem to be processing your posts!

 

[Criada]

"Weak" is exactly the right word! I for one was tempted by a lady homosexual (who I thought was a friend, guess not!) and I prayed and prayed and fought my inner most desires. I did not allow myself to be weak in the face of temptation and feel I am a better person because of it! Even though this story is particularly embarrassing to me, I feel telling it may give strength to another. BE STRONG IN THE FACE OF THE DEVIL AND HOMOSEXUALITY

So were you or are you a homosexual? Because.. most heterosexuals aren't tempted by the advances of a homosexual...

 

[Jase]

So were you or are you a homosexual? Because.. most heterosexuals aren't tempted by the advances of a homosexual...

Twostep is a Poe Criada. She indicated in other threads that the KJV was perfectly designed by God for America, and that she wants more Fred Phelps and Pat Robertson types attacking homosexuals and protesting funerals.

I don't know what the rules are for that type of trolling, but something should be done about this behavior.

 

[Texas Lynn]

It is simply a test of faith. It is for the same reason God puts thieves, murderers, and liberals on this green Earth. He wants to test our faith to be sure of our righteousness.

If that is meant to classify liberals as akin to thieves and murderers, the writer certainly fails in exercising reason and the concept a person who does this could possess "righteousness" in any form renders the concept of "righteousness" as so used utterly useless.

 

[Texas Lynn]

So were you or are you a homosexual? Because.. most heterosexuals aren't tempted by the advances of a homosexual...

Maybe even all, by definition...and depending upon who the homosexual doing the tempting is a lot of homosexuals won't be tempted one iota. Just like some heterosexual men are "tempted" by Lady Gaga, but she doesn't do anything so some of them who would find a woman like Mo'nique more attractive.

 

[lordworshipper]

Homosexuality is a choice, a choice I SUCCESSFULLY fought AGAINST, if you read my post.

I wish you were right. Though after years of praying every morning, night, mealtime, and time I go to church, still God hasn't answered my prayers, and just ending my attraction just isn't an option.

If you fought against it, that seems to imply that it wasn't a choice for you either. You are then just like me, a homosexual (or bisexual) who chose not to act on his/her same sex attraction.

 

[Stinker2]

"Weak" is exactly the right word! I for one was tempted by a lady homosexual (who I thought was a friend, guess not!) and I prayed and prayed and fought my inner most desires. I did not allow myself to be weak in the face of temptation and feel I am a better person because of it! Even though this story is particularly embarrassing to me, I feel telling it may give strength to another. BE STRONG IN THE FACE OF THE DEVIL AND HOMOSEXUALITY

1Cor.1:27 contrasts the 'weak' things compared to the 'mighty' things. These two are how the secular world looks upon certain things. People with genetic anomalies are perceived by the secular world (at least in Paul's time) as weak things. Though the gay community does not perceive themselves as being 'weak' in any sense. Neither do I.

 

[onemorequestion]

Once the justification of sin and TO sin is engaged in and given an excuse to be OK, and called "Christian theology," you are watching the rise of a new religion and an attack on the historic Christian Church.

What about those of us that used to believe homosexuality (and those that engage in this form of behavior) was justifiable, only to study the Bible and find out that it is not?

For a number of years I held the fundamentalist position that the gay community must be classified as sinful. That they should not be classified with those suffering from a genetic anomaly from birth. I re-examined my teaching and learned that I was mistaught and the real reason it took a while for me to adopt the truth was because I was taught for years that I already had the truth and I was very proud of that fact. It also helped a great deal that my conservative brethren published material that inflamed my scriptural pride by declaring that the Gay community was out to overthrow the Lord's church and the Christian influence in the U.S.A.

When I came to facing the truth, I had to find out for myself why God would allow people to be born with these kinds of anomalies that would draw the worst rejection from the heterosexual community. It finally made sense to me when I studied the Bible with no prior mental poisoning:



1 Corinthians 1:25-29 (King James Version)



25Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men.
26For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called:
27But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;
28And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are: 29That no flesh should glory in his presence.


-----------------------------------------------------------------------


God uses these people as His 'bait' in everyday situations. These are people who are sent in much like the two vulnerable men that were sent in to Sodom. We do not know why God choses this as one of His methods of confirming things....we just know by the scriptures that He does. They are people who are perfect for God's work in this area.

So what parts of the New Testament do we now have to eliminate from scripture so that Gay Pride can come marching down the aisles of The Christin Church. There is far too many objectionable aspects of Gay Pride to say "it" can be a Christian construct.

Let's start with the utter destruction of Christian holiness called marriage.

Please show us conservatives that all of the New Testament is wrong on the holiness of marriage to allow a few same gender couples the ability to outlaw holiness as Jesus and all of the writers of Christian scripture brought it to us.

I think you are confusing your desire to invent a new category of religious practice based on the New Testament, versus the faith delivered only once to the saints.

That is an old thing to witness in the history of the Church. David Khoresh and the Latter day Saints come quickly to mind as examples of personal beliefs overriding the reality of what is Christian truth.

 

[onemorequestion]

I wish you were right. Though after years of praying every morning, night, mealtime, and time I go to church, still God hasn't answered my prayers, and just ending my attraction just isn't an option.

If you fought against it, that seems to imply that it wasn't a choice for you either. You are then just like me, a homosexual (or bisexual) who chose not to act on his/her same sex attraction.

NOT acting on the desire to sin, is what being a Christian is all about. There is no pass defined for it to be OK to sin, OR, to redefine a sin based on the practioners of a particular sin, to be the agents of its justification.

Jesus showed us that lusting (for a woman in the case he used) seems to be quite common, or maybe, even a rarity (which reality says is not), but it is given no pass to justify in later years from His ancient days in Palestine.

Gay theology is another Gospel in detail and in generality.

 

[onemorequestion]

So were you or are you a homosexual? Because.. most heterosexuals aren't tempted by the advances of a homosexual...

The very design and physiology and biology of the human body proves your point correct.

Christian truth shows that in keeping with the truth of God revealed in the Prophets and Christ, it is the returning of the wayward sinner to God, is to have expectations of behavior connected to a thought process.

Faith without works . . .

 

[drich0150]

For a number of years I held the fundamentalist position that the gay community must be classified as sinful. That they should not be classified with those suffering from a genetic anomaly from birth. I re-examined my teaching and learned that I was mistaught and the real reason it took a while for me to adopt the truth was because I was taught for years that I already had the truth and I was very proud of that fact. It also helped a great deal that my conservative brethren published material that inflamed my scriptural pride by declaring that the Gay community was out to overthrow the Lord's church and the Christian influence in the U.S.A.

When I came to facing the truth, I had to find out for myself why God would allow people to be born with these kinds of anomalies that would draw the worst rejection from the heterosexual community. It finally made sense to me when I studied the Bible with no prior mental poisoning:



1 Corinthians 1:25-29 (King James Version)



25Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men.
26For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called:
27But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;
28And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are: 29That no flesh should glory in his presence.


-----------------------------------------------------------------------


God uses these people as His 'bait' in everyday situations. These are people who are sent in much like the two vulnerable men that were sent in to Sodom. We do not know why God choses this as one of His methods of confirming things....we just know by the scriptures that He does. They are people who are perfect for God's work in this area.

In your best estimation, what makes homosexuality different than any other sin? Then Why is there a need by the homosexual community to seek Christian persecution? Or Why is there a need for Christian acceptance?

Homosexuals are born into their sin of Choice Just Like Anyone And Everyone Else. Everything you said about the sin of Choice that you are representing could be said about any other sin, and or any other type of sinner. So again what in your best estimation makes you "special?" Why does homosexuality deserve a pass or Christian acceptance, while every other sin established in the scripture is to still be considered a sin??

If the bible is correct and we are all sinners why would one preach or teach a doctrine that negates the sin that is inherent in Homosexual life style? Just because you can fool yourself into thinking something is not a sin doesn't change the fact that it is. It also doesn't change your responsibility in that, you need to repent of that sin, just like all of the others born into any other sin. All a foolish doctrine of acceptance teaches is that one can not repent as he has been commanded if one's pride states he has not sin.

Do you hate gay people? Then why would you doom the entire gay community to hell by the way of unrepentant sin? That would be the same as if i decided to make it my personal crusade to make it "OK" for all of the liars of the world, by questioning translations and taking verses like 1Co1:25-29 and issuing it as a statement calling into question the "faith" of all of those who would call a liar a sinner.

By propagating my self righteous "feel good" message, I am appeasing the pride of all who have been "born" into lying. For those who have a strong relationship with God they know the truth. Lying is a sin, and will repent of their sin. Unfortunately, For those weak in the faith, but strong in personal pride, they will seize this opportunity and take my scripture as a reason not to repent. (Why should they repent if lying is not a sin?)

Again, just because you can fool yourself into thinking a sin is not a sin despite what the bible openly says.. It Doesn't make you any less responsible for that sin. You may fool yourself and others into thinking your way, but do you seriously think your thoughts and reasoning will work on God? Is he so easily fooled? Perhaps you should take another look a 1co1:25-29 Maybe God will open your eyes, and show You that you have fallen into "the trap" that you have been so eager to point out to others.

Maybe a non-KJ version will help you understand what is actually being said: 1Co1:

25For the foolishness of God is wiser than man's wisdom, and the weakness of God is stronger than man's strength.
26Brothers, think of what you were when you were called. Not many of you were wise by human standards; not many were influential; not many were of noble birth. 27But God chose the foolish things of the world to shame the wise; God chose the weak things of the world to shame the strong. 28He chose the lowly things of this world and the despised things—and the things that are not—to nullify the things that are, 29so that no one may boast before him.

 

[onemorequestion]

In your best estimation, what makes homosexuality different than any other sin?

The pride in it. Haughtiness as a civil right, forcing all to submit to this sin as not being a sin. In fact, the adherents of homosexuality are indeed forcing their haughtiness over all as is proven by hate crimes laws and "civil rights" definitions.

Then Why is there a need by the homosexual community to seek Christian persecution? Or Why is there a need for Christian acceptance?

Light versus darkness. Jesus said this was what was going to happen. It happened to the faithful quickly under Nero (a man that married a man) and hasn't ended. In fact, it is picking up steam from the same quarters against the Church.

Homosexuals are born into their sin of Choice Just Like Anyone And Everyone Else. Everything you said about the sin of Choice that you are representing could be said about any other sin, and or any other type of sinner. So again what in your best estimation makes you "special?" Why does homosexuality deserve a pass or Christian acceptance, while every other sin established in the scripture is to still be considered a sin??

The machinations employed to prove gay theology is mind numbing to watch presented. It always comes down to: If it feels good do it, the Hippy movement of the 60's redefined as political ideology, the ancient "Eat drink and be merry . . ." hedonistic belief, and when all else fails, the age old excuse of pointing to other wrongs to make this wrong acceptable. Or at least silenced.

If the bible is correct and we are all sinners why would one preach or teach a doctrine that negates the sin that is inherent in Homosexual life style?

Why indeed?

Just because you can fool yourself into thinking something is not a sin doesn't change the fact that it is.

Ignorance or willfulness is never bliss. "My people PERISH for a lack of knowledge," says God.

It also doesn't change your responsibility in that, you need to repent of that sin, just like all of the others born into any other sin. All a foolish doctrine of acceptance teaches is that one can not repent as he has been commanded if one's pride states he has not sin.

That statement is now a hate crime. Try keeping to that and try getting a psychology degree.

Do you hate gay people? Then why would you doom the entire gay community to hell by the way of unrepentant sin?

Perfect Christian question. Or, accusation really.

That would be the same as if i decided to make it my personal crusade to make it "OK" for all of the liars of the world, by questioning translations and taking verses like 1Co1:25-29 and issuing it as a statement calling into question the "faith" of all of those who would call a liar a sinner.

By propagating my self righteous "feel good" message, I am appeasing the pride of all who have been "born" into lying. For those who have a strong relationship with God they know the truth. Lying is a sin, and will repent of their sin. Unfortunately, For those weak in the faith, but strong in personal pride, they will seize this opportunity and take my scripture as a reason not to repent. (Why should they repent if lying is not a sin?)

Again, just because you can fool yourself into thinking a sin is not a sin despite what the bible openly says.. It Doesn't make you any less responsible for that sin. You may fool yourself and others into thinking your way, but do you seriously think your thoughts and reasoning will work on God? Is he so easily fooled? Perhaps you should take another look a 1co1:25-29 Maybe God will open your eyes, and show You that you have fallen into "the trap" that you have been so eager to point out to others.

Maybe a non-KJ version will help you understand what is actually being said: 1Co1:

25For the foolishness of God is wiser than man's wisdom, and the weakness of God is stronger than man's strength.
26Brothers, think of what you were when you were called. Not many of you were wise by human standards; not many were influential; not many were of noble birth. 27But God chose the foolish things of the world to shame the wise; God chose the weak things of the world to shame the strong. 28He chose the lowly things of this world and the despised things—and the things that are not—to nullify the things that are, 29so that no one may boast before him.

But, when does your excellent message (position) stated above, force a Christian to shake the dust from their shoes and move on to someone that WILL listen to the Gospel?

 

[Criada]

I am still not sure what the OP meant, but he doesn't appear to be coming back to clarify.
I don't think this was intended as another rehash of the same discussion that is carried out all the time here, but I may be being optimistic.

 

[Stinker2]

I am still not sure what the OP meant, but he doesn't appear to be coming back to clarify.
I don't think this was intended as another rehash of the same discussion that is carried out all the time here, but I may be being optimistic.

Do you see now what I was talking about! See......how you don't see? I have heard it before many times, a phrase called 'poisoning the well" so that the neutral party is no more neutral concerning something or someone. Now I ask, Are genetics responsible for certain people's sins?