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Why Evolution is True

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dad

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but wouldn't you say thoes lessons could have been learned WITHOUT murder taking place?
No. I wouldn't say that. If that were the case why would God allow David to have sinned?


i would really like to know, what lessons he learned from this that he could have only learned that way?

Well we don't really know David, nor what God needed to do or allow in his life. How would we know what it would take to get David to have his sins burned away leaving only the gold? God knows! Why not assume God knows what He is doing?
 
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Vergil10

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No. I wouldn't say that. If that were the case why would God allow David to have sinned?




Well we don't really know David, nor what God needed to do or allow in his life. How would we know what it would take to get David to have his sins burned away leaving only the gold? God knows! Why not assume God knows what He is doing?
it was you who said it was a learning experience for him, so naturally i am curious as to what lessons were learned.i assumed since you made the claim you would know. please do share i am curious.
 
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dad

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it was you who said it was a learning experience for him, so naturally i am curious as to what lessons were learned.i assumed since you made the claim you would know. please do share i am curious.
We know that God watches over us, and that whatever comes He allows or sends. We know that we go through trials to purge away the bad, and that these are all for our good. He that began a good work in us will complete it. He knows the day we are born and the day we die. Every hair on our head He knows the number of. Satan cannot touch us without the green light from the Almighty.

Not only was what David went through a learning experience for him, but me and you too!
 
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Vergil10

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We know that God watches over us, and that whatever comes He allows or sends. We know that we go through trials to purge away the bad, and that these are all for our good. He that began a good work in us will complete it. He knows the day we are born and the day we die. Every hair on our head He knows the number of. Satan cannot touch us without the green light from the Almighty.

Not only was what David went through a learning experience for him, but me and you too!
so the lesson was god allows evil?
 
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dad

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so the lesson was god allows evil?
God does not squelch His children like robots. He allows us a lot of room for personal choice. There can come a point, however, when a sin is such that He will not allow us to continue life on earth. A 'sin unto death'. We are a work in progress. Not a finished product while here on earth in this life. We have a God that is greater than sin and death.
 
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Vergil10

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God does not squelch His children like robots. He allows us a lot of room for personal choice. There can come a point, however, when a sin is such that He will not allow us to continue life on earth. A 'sin unto death'. We are a work in progress. Not a finished product while here on earth in this life. We have a God that is greater than sin and death.
who also may give Satan the green light to do us harm? and even so why use murder as a means to get this across? couldn't he have simply told David this? sent a letter?
 
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createdtoworship

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i was raised in a christian household, my morals have not changed much overtime but i get my morals from logic and reason.

first of all, how do you know your morals don't come from your upbringing?

secondly thats not a law, I asked for a law. What law do you have that states murder is wrong, if not the Bible?
 
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Vergil10

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first of all, how do you know your morals don't come from your upbringing?

secondly thats not a law, I asked for a law. What law do you have that states murder is wrong, if not the Bible?
and how do you know that the morals i was brought up with weren't based on logic and reason? i think you will find most morals are. as for laws, well murder by it's definition is unlawful killing. as such you will find murder is illegal in my country (America) across all 50 states.
 
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createdtoworship

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Why was it against the law to kill in countries that had never even heard of the bible let alone Christianity?
What did they do in the world before people were able to read the bible or before the bible was written?
It's common sense not to kill each other because not only can you kill others they can kill you.
There would be no societies in the world if people didn't agree amongst themselves not to kill each other...A little tip.... Try thinking outside the boundaries of very new countries like the USA, Canada, Australia and NZ,
learn to take some of the good things from other countries and abandon the bad.
An example..how much damage and misery has religion been responsible for in the middle east?

I would ask them the same exact question. What law do they follow? (they wouldn't attest to the Bible but a higher, "law of nature" C.S. Lewis calls it.)

Apart from that how can we take any moral guidance from a manual of death and slaughter like the O/T? it's a perfect example of don't do as I do do as I tell you.

why is the OT bad? What moral law are you attesting to?
 
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createdtoworship

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and how do you know that the morals i was brought up with weren't based on logic and reason? i think you will find most morals are. as for laws, well murder by it's definition is unlawful killing. as such you will find murder is illegal in my country (America) across all 50 states.

but there are cannibalistic tribes as well, correct?

"The Korowai are a tribe of about 4,000 individuals living in the jungle of New Guinea, and they are the last confirmed group to practice cannibalism"

The Culture That Still Practices Cannibalism - KnowledgeNuts

so it would appear that there is a universal law, that transcends culture, some adhere to it, others do not. Some because of deception, others because of wickedness, yet others by a mixture of the two.
 
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createdtoworship

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You don't need a bible to make laws that protect society.

so then murder is wrong simply because it's voted so?

I think it's more than that.

Morality transcends political party
 
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Dizredux

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so then murder is wrong simply because it's voted so?

I think it's more than that.

Morality transcends political party
Murder is usually considered as a unlawful killing so it is a legal term, not a moral one. If a killing is not unlawful then it is not murder.

I have seen several times attempts to find a universal law, something that all societies or cultures would follow.

So far this search has been unsuccessful. No behavior could be found that was not approved of or at least not condemned by some culture somewhere at some time.

Interesting subject,

Dizfredux
 
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Dizredux

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I think it's about time to stop derailing the thread on your personal vendettas and get back to the OP. That would be the honest thing to do. Thanks for the comment.
Vendetta? Paranoid much? I am pointing out that you do not read what you respond to which very much derails threads and causes communications problems. All that I am asking is that you read before responding.

Right now you are talking about moral standards on a thread titled Why evolution is true. You talking about derailing threads is a tad ironic.

Dizredux
 
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dad

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who also may give Satan the green light to do us harm?

Right. But the 'harm' works for our good. It seems that this sin state world is just not a bed of harmless roses.
and even so why use murder as a means to get this across?

God used what was there. He asked us not to commit adultery or murder, remember? Don't blame Him.

couldn't he have simply told David this? sent a letter?
He did, and had Moses deliver it.
 
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dad

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Why was it against the law to kill in countries that had never even heard of the bible let alone Christianity?


Name several of these countries that had never heard of the bible, just so we can see you are serious here. Obviously it couldn;t be any Muslim country as they record Jesus and had Gabriel (they claim and think--it really wan't Gabriel though) give them messages!
What did they do in the world before people were able to read the bible or before the bible was written?
After the flood they went back to picture writing probably because of babel in some places. That did not mean they did not know Noah's sons or daughters and much about creation. It just meant they probably had no need for a written record as all people spoke the same tongue, and maybe had other things different in how the brain works in the former state.

It's common sense not to kill each other because not only can you kill others they can kill you.
Tell that to the president of the US and other countries. Get off the pious pulpit.


There would be no societies in the world if people didn't agree amongst themselves not to kill each other.
Some things are pretty basic, this is true. We came with some instructions built in.

Apart from that how can we take any moral guidance from a manual of death and slaughter like the O/T? it's a perfect example of don't do as I do do as I tell you.
The OT was about God promising salvation in the form of a man to come one day, and trying to make sure a people existed from which He would work....by and large. Since the wicked world and the spirit forces involved fought that tooth and nail, to keep man in sin and death, it was not a cake walk. But to the unsaved wicked people, I give this advice--don't mess with God. He will win in the end no matter what.

A little tip.... Try thinking outside the boundaries of very new countries like the USA, Canada, Australia and NZ,
learn to take some of the good things from other countries and abandon the bad.
An example..how much damage and misery has religion been responsible for in the middle east?
Plenty. How many were killled there? Let's look at the US now...how many dead in all its wars? Like to compare notes? How many kids were killed before being able to be born fully outside the middle east? Over a billions in recent decades for sure. How many kids were kept from the truth of God by the lies of the religion so called science? Untold millions. So, you see the middle east is just a player in a bigger game.
 
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