Why does God not present himself to us more openly?

[Gumph]

In another post, some of you were good enough to explain that the Bible is the only way in which one can find God.

I realise that you won't be wanting to second guess God's methods, but does the Bible give any reasons as to why he doesn't make his existence obvious to everyone, even us folk living all these years after Jesus died?

 

[Radagast]

In another post, some of you were good enough to explain that the Bible is the only way in which one can find God.

I realise that you won't be wanting to second guess God's methods, but does the Bible give any reasons as to why he doesn't make his existence obvious to everyone, even us folk living all these years after Jesus died?

In some ways, God's relationship can be better described as with the human race, rather than with individuals. God revealed himself, in a spectacular way, to the human race.

 

[Gumph]

God revealed himself, in a spectacular way, to the human race.

In some interpretations it does seem to have been a heart felt and very personal revelation. I can't say I'd choose the word "spectacular".

There are many ways to have made it much more spectacular.

It remains however, an event experienced by precious few. Does the Bible provide any indication as to why he does not reveal himself to more in a more obvious way? A more spectacular way, if you prefer.

 

[Radagast]

In some interpretations it does seem to have been a heart felt and very personal revelation. I can't say I'd choose the word "spectacular".

Resurrection from the dead is pretty spectacular.

It remains however, an event experienced by precious few.

It was an event experienced by (members of) the human race. That's my point. There's only one human race; the human race only needed to experience it once.

To see the human race solely as a collection of individuals is a modern, secular, and to some extent American distortion of reality.

 

[Gumph]

Resurrection from the dead is pretty spectacular.

It would have been if thousands witnessed it and if we could still witness it today. Nope, the way it was done is intriguing and perhaps special, but definitely not spectacular.

It was an event experienced by (members of) the human race. That's my point. There's only one human race; the human race only needed to experience it once.

I don't follow that logic. We humans are horrendous at recording events accurately. That why the saying "History is written by the victor" exists.

I find that to be anything but an obvious way.

 

[bling]

If we are looking for God he could not be closer, but we do have to turn toward Him.
If you are looking for “Love” that is not something you can develop or find on your own, but is a free undeserving and unconditional gift (Charity) from God and all you have to do is accept it as charity.

Why would God even want to reveal Himself to those that just want to take pride in saying they know Him? Would that do them more harm than good?

The only way I have seen or read to obtain Godly type Love initially is through accepting God’s Love in the form of accepting God’s forgiveness (Love/mercy/grace/Charity). If you do not really want to be forgiven, think you do not need forgiving, or have too much pride to accept charity, than you are not going to Love much as the result of being forgiven much… If you really feel the burden created by hurting others (sin), seek relief from that burden, trust (faith) in a benevolent Creator that would forgive us than that little “faith” is humbling enough to allow us to accept God’s charity as charity.

This trying to discover “truth” and gain some “knowledge” in my opinion is going the wrong way since knowledge tense to puff us up, increase our ego/pride, while what we are trying to be is humble enough to accept charity?

If you do not “need” to believe (trust) in a benevolent Creator than you can avoid putting your faith in a benevolent Creator. You can believe (trust) that the universe and life was a random result, since it would make no difference unless you had a real “need” to believe in a benevolent God.

If you have nothing to loss and a lot to be gained by believing would that not make it easier to believe, since you are going to believe something?

Atheist may say “I do not believe anything”, but practically they act like; they “believe” the Christian God does not exist and for most of my discussions with them, do not want or like the Christian God, so they have reason not to believe.

You will find you are on a “need to know bases” and if it would “upset” you to know, God will not upset you, since all He wants to do is help you.

It is every Christian’s privilege and honor to have the Holy Spirit work through them to allow every human on earth to have the opportunity to experience Christ one on one first hand.

This is the best way and the way God/Christ set it up to be done and it works great when done right. This is also the quietest way if we followed the example Christ gave us (taking maybe 36 years to get to all 6 Billion+ on earth).

Christian is not a title, but a descriptive term so if a person was truly “Christ like”, that person would be a Christian. I am not finding many Christ like people in the USA, but there seems to be a lot in the underground church in China.

 

[oi_antz]

In another post, some of you were good enough to explain that the Bible is the only way in which one can find God.

I realise that you won't be wanting to second guess God's methods, but does the Bible give any reasons as to why he doesn't make his existence obvious to everyone, even us folk living all these years after Jesus died?

John 10:1 might be useful:

“Very truly I tell you Pharisees, anyone who does not enter the sheep pen by the gate, but climbs in by some other way, is a thief and a robber.

 

[Radagast]

I don't follow that logic. We humans are horrendous at recording events accurately.

You're not understanding me. I keep saying "human race," meaning an organic whole. You keep saying "humans," as in isolated individuals.

 

[Gumph]

@Bling

I seem to be getting the message from you that when I am ready and really needing God, then he will appear to me.

Fair enough I suppose. Do I simply wait then?

 

[Gumph]

John 10:1 might be useful:

“Very truly I tell you Pharisees, anyone who does not enter the sheep pen by the gate, but climbs in by some other way, is a thief and a robber.

Thanks oi_antz

But sorry, no it doesn't really help. Once again the text seems to be using symbolism which I often don't understand.

I can't see how the above text indicates God's reasons for not showing himself to everyone. Instead it seems to me that he is insisting that you must come to him in a very specific way. That specific way is not familiar to me.

 

[agua]

In another post, some of you were good enough to explain that the Bible is the only way in which one can find God.

I realise that you won't be wanting to second guess God's methods, but does the Bible give any reasons as to why he doesn't make his existence obvious to everyone, even us folk living all these years after Jesus died?

Yahweh said He can be clearly seen by what He has made ie. the order, majesty and complexity etc of creation testifies of Yahweh.

 

[Gumph]

You're not understanding me. I keep saying "human race," meaning an organic whole. You keep saying "humans," as in isolated individuals.

Yes I agree. I am not following you. How can a single visit to a race be considered sufficient, let alone obvious?

 

[Gumph]

Yahweh said He can be clearly seen by what He has made ie. the order, majesty and complexity etc of creation testifies of Yahweh.

That seems fair enough if the intention was to show that he existed at the time of creation.

Its not very convincing if we need assurance that he is still here.

Was there perhaps any reason given why he didn't feel the need to show himself to all of us, rather than his legacy?

 

[Radagast]

Yes I agree. I am not following you. How can a single visit to a race be considered sufficient, let alone obvious?

The failure of the human race to act like a single organic entity is one of its major problems.

To help fix this, Jesus instituted the Church, as a new organic entity. We don't quite measure up to what He wanted, but with His help, we try.

 

[Radagast]

That seems fair enough if the intention was to show that he existed at the time of creation.

Its not very convincing if we need assurance that he is still here.

If God existed once, then He must still exist.

 

[Gumph]

The failure of the human race to act like a single organic entity is one of its major problems.

To help fix this, Jesus instituted the Church, as a new organic entity. We don't quite measure up to what He wanted, but with His help, we try.

Again, there is nothing "open" or obvious about this method. Its like trying to carry water with a sieve. Why does he insist on using fallible humans as guides and messengers. The errors could be bypassed and we could all be presented with the same facts on which to base our decisions.

Is there not some explanation in the Bible as to why he chooses this seemingly error strewn method?

 

[agua]

That seems fair enough if the intention was to show that he existed at the time of creation.

Its not very convincing if we need assurance that he is still here.

Was there perhaps any reason given why he didn't feel the need to show himself to all of us, rather than his legacy?

The evidence of Yahweh in creation is ongoing and the person who searches for the being resonsible for the Universe will find Yahweh. ie. Creation makes Yahweh self evident. As the search for Yahweh continues He reveals Himself through personal experiences and I see no reason He should constantly reveal Himself to people who don't want to know Him.

 

[Gumph]

If God existed once, then He must still exist.

Yeah I suppose so. It seems all the paths eventually lead back to the Bible, which is why so many debates rage on about its authenticity and interpretation.

I guess you're saying that God is satisfied that by telling the people through the Bible that he created the world and that he lives eternally is sufficient. There is no need to reinforce it further.

Its an answer, but leaves me a bit disappointed.

 

[oi_antz]

Thanks oi_antz

But sorry, no it doesn't really help. Once again the text seems to be using symbolism which I often don't understand.

I can't see how the above text indicates God's reasons for not showing himself to everyone. Instead it seems to me that he is insisting that you must come to him in a very specific way. That specific way is not familiar to me.

It is an interesting response! If you have not done it before, I cannot imagine how it would be familiar. Jesus said "work hard to enter through the narrow gate, because wide is the road leading to destruction and many go that way" - what I see relevant to you here, make sure you settle for nothing but the real thing. That is, get to know Him and don't get distracted by theoretical knowledge.

 

[Inkfingers]

does the Bible give any reasons as to why he doesn't make his existence obvious to everyone?

He does make His existence obvious to a reasoning mind.

The problem is that the human race evolved out of animals and we still have the animal mind clouding our reason with its passions, appetites, emotions, and biases. So we are like 5 year olds trying to learn about calculus; most of it goes over our head until we have done the ground work and built up the capacity to understand the more complex matters.

Hence how the Gospel of John speaks of "light" coming into the world, and of the Logos.

When you've done the ground work, you can start to see the hand of God everywhere - if it helps, think of Him like the Force in Star Wars (although the creator, rather than the creation, of life). Hence CS Lewis speaking of Christ as "the all-pervasive principle of concretion or cohesion whereby the universe holds together". To think that phrase did not influence George Lucas would be to deny the obvious as well.

To see order in the universe is to see God, the Logos, at work.