Why does God allow suffering?

[timewerx]

is it dishonourable to love God and not suffer? or is the capacity of our faith limited by the amount we suffer?

Although the consequences for true belief (not shallow belief) often comes with suffering in this world, suffering may not always happen.

Our Goal is still to continue seeking the Truth. We are not to seek suffering just for the sake of it.

 

[Rescued One]

He doesn't allow it, he is responsible for it. He set up the world in such a way, that there would be suffering.

He isn't responsible for sin just because He allows it. Adam followed Satan instead of God.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

And we are supposed to be His servants towards those in need. Can"t leave it all up to God alone to do

I agree. I believe God desires to work through us so as to love others.

 

[Ing Bee]

This is a popular question among non-believers and a reason why many claim there is no God. Or, why they believe in another God or religion such as Buddhism which explains this away as "karma". But as a Christian, what do you think is the reason God allows suffering?

It might be helpful to parse out different uses or meanings of the term 'suffering'.

#1) Suffering due to your own foolish/evil decisions
#2) Suffering due to the foolishness/evil of others
#3) Suffering due to 'forces of nature'
#4) Emotional pain
#5) Physical pain​

These are sometimes intertwined. For example, if you were born on a floodplain and your town is devastated by a flood. That may be #3. If you decide to rebuild and stay on the floodplain, knowing it's just a matter of time, #1 compounds a second occurrence of #3.

As a divine community of love, Yahweh is inherently interpersonal. True interpersonal relationships require choice. Choice is not real if the effects of the choice are erased or annulled.

The vast majority of suffering in the world either comes from #1 and #2 (the results of real human choices) or is exacerbated by it. Read Dead Aid by Dambisa Moyofor an example of direct and indirect human evil compounding the effects of natural suffering in regards to humanitarian aid in the past two or three decades.

The Bible also indicates in several places (including Genesis 3 and Romans 8:19) that the created order is in some way affected by human sin which means that at least some of #3 is also a result of human choice. For God to annul the effects of our choice would be to reject free-will which also negates real love choices and hence, interpersonal relationships of agape.

The cross of Christ is how Yahweh addresses human evil and suffering. And the church, empowered by the Holy Spirit is participating in the expansion of God's good rule by loving self-sacrificially and combatting evil with good. (1 Corinthians 13).

For #4, all emotional pain is ultimately connected to human sin, even over death of a loved one because through sin, death entered the human story.

For #5, physical pain is a gift, not a curse. It tells you something is wrong with how your body is interacting with your environment. God did not curse humanity with pain, but evil people can and do use the good pain mechanisms in our bodies to inflict harm. (Aside: Eve's pain in child birth was increased as a result of sin. There was already some pain involved.)

Importantly, willingly absorbing suffering for the sake of Christ and his Kingdom of Agape love is an intrinsic part of what it means to be a disciple of Jesus. Just as he absorbed the just consequences of sin into himself on the cross, we now do similar through the power of Christ's Spirit. What is forgiveness but absorbing the consequences of sin into ourselves because Jesus has forgiven us? (Ephesians 4:32) When we are reviled, we do not revile in return, we absorb the suffering of scorn and shame (1 Peter 2:23). We are promised suffering and are told to rejoice in it (Romans 5:3).

It is true that Jesus is very familiar with suffering (Isaiah 53) and unlike us, none of it was deserved. Instead he took it on willingly (2 Corinthians 5:21) for our benefit. Now we do likewise (1 Peter 2:21). One day all will be put right and no more tears or sickness or pain (Revelation 21:4) and death will be finally conquered. Until then, those who are in Christ have a new relationship to suffering. It is something we can choose to engage with, our of love, just like our glorious Captain and King.

 

[timothyu]

Is not the only suffering God is interested in is a 'groaning' in the spirit which either shows our remorse for the ways of man or the transition from the ways of man towards the ways of the Kingdom.

 

[tdidymas]

I think you're misinterpreting what I'm saying. I am not saying we "deserve" suffering because of righteous acts, such as preaching the Gospel. I am saying, on the whole, we deserve death and punishment (which, one would assume), would lead to suffering; we deserve this as sinners; but not as children of God faithfully preaching the Gospel. What I'm trying to get at is that how can we question why we suffer when we suffer only in part. If God is just, we would all experience the wrath of God in the depths of Sheol. But God, in his mercy, saved us from that suffering. But since we live in a world where some have repented while others have not repented, there are still acts of wickedness and thus we still experience some suffering, because we still share a world with people whose hearts are heard.
What I'm REALLY getting at, is there is only one person who did not deserve suffering in any sense, and his name is Jesus.

It appears to me that you misunderstood my response. I did not say that you said we deserve suffering because of righteous acts. Let's go back over what you said:

I'm only merely stating that while there may be an instance that seems like undeserved punishment, such as persecution for spreading the Gospel, it actually in a way is deserved for how much we sin against God.

It appears to me that you are saying persecution is deserved in a way because of sin. No?

All I am saying is that no, I disagree. No one deserves to be persecuted for Christ as a result of sin. That idea doesn't fit with either justice or mercy. There are indeed consequences of sin, and those consequences clearly point to the sin committed. Therefore, justice is partly served by the consequences that clearly point to the sin committed.

But persecution for Christ has nothing to do with any sin committed by the persecuted person. So, if tribulation we experience doesn't clearly point to any sin we committed, then it isn't consequence of sin, but rather a discipline from God to cause an increase in our faith and Christlikeness, according to Heb. 12. This is how to discern (in part) the difference between affliction as a consequence of sin, and affliction as a spiritual discipline. The one involves repentance, and the other involves endurance.
TD

 

[Unnamed Guy]

Are you suggesting that God (God the Father doesn’t know what He (God the Son) is doing?

No, I am suggesting that you should not add to the scriptures. That is what Eve did and you see where that got us.

 

[Unnamed Guy]

Are you suggesting that God (God the Father doesn’t know what He (God the Son) is doing?

That is considered to be a basic doctrine here and I decline to discuss it.

 

[Unnamed Guy]

This passage is talking about Solomon, not Jesus.

You seem to not believe in God's omniscience. Are you an Open Theist?
TD

I do not constrain myself with names other than "son of God".

If God knew everything, there would be no reason to threaten Solomon either. If God knew everything, there would be no reason to create Adam, or Satan, or anything at all.

 

[(° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ)]

This is a popular question among non-believers and a reason why many claim there is no God. Or, why they believe in another God or religion such as Buddhism which explains this away as "karma". But as a Christian, what do you think is the reason God allows suffering?

1. Suffering enables us to glorify God - John 11:4
2. Suffering makes us more like Christ - Romans 8:29, Hebrews 2:10,18
3. Suffering makes us appreciative - Romans 8:28
4. Suffering teaches us to depend on God - Isaiah 30:15, Exodus 14:13, Zechariah 4:6
5. In suffering we exercise faith - Job 23:10, Romans 8:24-25, 1 Peter 4:12-13
6. Suffering teaches us patience - Romans 5:3-5
7. Suffering makes us sympathetic - 2 Corinthians 1:3-6, Hebrews 2:10,18
8. Suffering makes us be what we ought to be - Hebrews 12:6, Psalm 84:11
9. Suffering makes us and keeps us humble - 2 Corinthians 12:7-10
10. Suffering bring rewards - 2 Timothy 2:12, 1 Peter 4:12-13, Hebrews 2:10

 

[salt-n-light]

The bible tells us that God planned Christ's death, burial, and resurrection before the foundation of the world. So he knew Adam would not hold his end of the bargain (so to speak).

1Pe 1:19 but with the precious blood of Christ, like that of a lamb without blemish or spot.

1Pe 1:20 He was foreknown before the foundation of the world but was made manifest in the last times for the sake of you

1Pe 1:21 who through him are believers in God, who raised him from the dead and gave him glory, so that your faith and hope are in God.

So suffering is not just a simple by-product of God's fishbowl called earth, it's meant to be here. Everything in our lives that happens has a reason. Every person that hurts you, or blesses you, there is a reason. I think so.

Everything is for His glory ultimately, but I would not say that he knew that Adam wouldn't hold his end of the bargain, but rather He knew what He would have to put in place whenever he did fall, or else what's the point? To create a son to then kill off? Why would he punish them then if disobeying was what they were supposed to do? It wouldn't make sense.

So yes Jesus' death was planned because He alone would be worthy for that job, but so was not needing Jesus' to die and them staying in the Garden of Eden, it worked concurrent to whatever they choose to do, but whichever they did, it would be towards ultimately God's glory always.

 

[tdidymas]

I do not constrain myself with names other than "son of God".

If God knew everything, there would be no reason to threaten Solomon either. If God knew everything, there would be no reason to create Adam, or Satan, or anything at all.

Who says? I think you have the burden of proof. My view is that God didn't create anything for Himself, but for us.
TD

 

[timothyu]

Who says? I think you have the burden of proof. My view is that God didn't create anything for Himself, but for us.
TD

Perhaps to psychoanalyse all aspects of Himself through artistic expression via creation?

 

[All4Christ]

That is considered to be a basic doctrine here and I decline to discuss it.

Yes, God’s omniscience is a basic doctrine.

 

[DamianWarS]

He isn't responsible for sin just because He allows it. Adam followed Satan instead of God.

who's responsible for Satan?

 

[Unnamed Guy]

Who says? I think you have the burden of proof. My view is that God didn't create anything for Himself, but for us.
TD

"Burden of proof"? What a weird thing to say. We prove things by quoting the bible, not by squabbling over conflicting opinions.

 

[Rescued One]

who's responsible for Satan?

God didn't make Satan rebel. Satan is responsible for himself.

 

[DamianWarS]

Who says? I think you have the burden of proof. My view is that God didn't create anything for Himself, but for us.
TD

Everything is for God's glory

 

[Rescued One]

Who says? I think you have the burden of proof. My view is that God didn't create anything for Himself, but for us.
TD

???
Please specify or define us.

Revelation 4
Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.

 

[quintessentialramble]

It appears to me that you misunderstood my response. I did not say that you said we deserve suffering because of righteous acts. Let's go back over what you said:

It appears to me that you are saying persecution is deserved in a way because of sin. No?

All I am saying is that no, I disagree. No one deserves to be persecuted for Christ as a result of sin. That idea doesn't fit with either justice or mercy. There are indeed consequences of sin, and those consequences clearly point to the sin committed. Therefore, justice is partly served by the consequences that clearly point to the sin committed.

But persecution for Christ has nothing to do with any sin committed by the persecuted person. So, if tribulation we experience doesn't clearly point to any sin we committed, then it isn't consequence of sin, but rather a discipline from God to cause an increase in our faith and Christlikeness, according to Heb. 12. This is how to discern (in part) the difference between affliction as a consequence of sin, and affliction as a spiritual discipline. The one involves repentance, and the other involves endurance.
TD

The key words here are "in a way" which are supposed to act almost like a metaphor. The bible says every inclination of the human heart of evil. Humans have become utterly corrupt, so we have no right to say we dont deserve suffering in a general sense. I am not saying that proclaiming the Gospel deserves punishment; proclaiming the Gospel should be praised, but our sin deserves punishment. The Bible says that God will convict us towards godly sorrow leading to repentance. This too is just suffering, as the suffering is caused by our own ignorance of God. Again, the goal here is character growth.