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Featured Why does God allow suffering?

Discussion in 'Christian Philosophy & Ethics' started by Romans 8, Mar 25, 2019.

  1. timothyu

    timothyu Well-Known Member

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    Now if only those who believe that would offer mitigation of suffering to all of mankind. It would ne nice to have more friends out there than enemies, but of course enemies do make the financial wheels go round.
     
  2. The Righterzpen

    The Righterzpen Well-Known Member

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    Origin of Evil:
    Well, my theory as to where evil came from: is that it was a byproduct of God's creative process. "Evil" is the opposite of everything God is; except it is not omniscient, omnipotent, omnipresent, eternal or immortal. (OOOEI)

    "To every action is an (equal) and opposite reaction."

    The action of God creating produced a creation that was not omniscient, omnipotent, omnipresent, eternal or immortal either. And the fact that this reaction was the opposite of God's action, (as opposed to the opposite of God's essence) is what limited "evils" capacity to the created realm.

    Now all that God created He called "very good". It was pleasing to God, it was moral, it was beautiful (still is in many ways), and reflected these loving attributes of God. Evil though, is the opposite of all of that!

    So God knowing that as soon as He created something, this is what would happen - this I believe was the "knowledge of good and evil" that God possessed. Now obviously God being the entity that He is; (OOOIE) could not be corrupted by that knowledge. But because the creation is not OOOIE, it is corruptible by that knowledge.

    So in enters "tree of knowledge of good and evil". Evil existed in Adam & Eve's environment, they just didn't know about it. And since Adam and Eve are created in God's image but are not OOOIE; as soon as they transgress, the "proverbial stinky stuff" hits the fan and the entire creation is plunged into the control of evil. Evil now rules and this is what "the fall" is!

    Now the atonement is the only way to not only pay for human sin, but also to get rid of that evil by making the Creator part of the creation. Now this is pretty awesome because becoming incarnated permanently alters an aspect of God's existence in that now an incorruptible created realm is forever needed for the incarnated person of the Godhead. And here is why there is a new heavens and new earth.

    God would not create a universe that He knew to be fundamentally unredeemable. This is a demonstration of His love. Besides being loving, God is practical. He would not create something He knew as going to be eternally lost; there's be no point in that.

    Besides that if God did not have the power to redeem what He'd created, He in essence would not be God and there'd be no discussion about this because we would not be here to discuss it; if that makes any sense to you?

    Purpose for suffering:
    God answers that for us. "All things work together for good to those who are called according to His purpose." The purpose God turns suffering into is for the advancement of the kingdom. What man means for evil, God uses for good.

    Now from the perspective of the individual; we may never see on this side of eternity the full extent of how our suffering was used. Rest assured though, it was. This obviously requires trust in God to bring about His purposes from what ever our suffering has been.

    Neither of these: (the theory on origin of evil or the purpose for suffering) make God responsible for suffering. It makes Him the counter agent of it.

    Now does that make sense?
     
  3. Toro

    Toro Oh, Hello!

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    God allows suffering for two reasons.

    1) Man chose suffering through sin. Sin caused suffering... as such.. He allows our choice to be honored. God gave free will to man, to honor it, not to override it as a dictator or tyrant. In order to honor that free will... suffering, decay and all the rest must be allowed for a time.

    2) Through that suffering it allows for growth. Humans are lazy creatures by nature, we love comfort, pleasure and convenience. In general most of humanity chase these things, yet we generally learn the most when there is pain. As seen in Job. Hardships allow for learning of humility and empathy that allow us not only to lean on and get to know God better, but to connect with others that have experienced that same pain, uniting us not only to Him, but to eachother.. if only we are humble, loving and open enough to love as we should.
     
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  4. Natsumi Lam

    Natsumi Lam Preparer of the Bride Supporter

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  5. Phoebe Ann

    Phoebe Ann From Mormonism to Christ Supporter

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    That's what I was going to say. But would anyone desire heaven if we already had it?

    John 16
    33 These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.

    Without sin, who would need a Savior?
     
  6. quintessentialramble

    quintessentialramble Member

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    The important thing to know here is that God honors longsuffering, but does not endorse or honor sin that led to suffering. In some cases, suffering is a direct result of natural occurrences such as a tornado. But let's realistically take a look here; why are most people angry at this? Most of the time, it has to do with the loss of their property, which actual reveals a selfish, materialistic heart; so one might say that God brought about suffering to bring about repentance for a sinner who placed their trust in worldly things.
    Other times suffering is a direct result of our own sin.
    Other times, suffering comes as a result of the sin of others; which is foreshadowed and told to us would happen if we follow Jesus; as we become more like Jesus, who suffered though he lived a perfect sinless life.
    The difference is, that even if while it's possible we don't in that particular instance, deserve suffering; or perhaps our suffering is undeserved for preaching the Gospel; our suffering is deserved as a punishment for our sin; so who are we to question why we suffer? Rather, we rejoice in our suffering for we know it produces hope, endurance, and character.
    This was the great story of Job, who though he lost everything, still honored God in his humility and prayerful wrestling with God.
     
  7. Halbhh

    Halbhh The wonder and awe of His Creation! Supporter

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    If you are actually answering a non believer, you need to know your audience. So the answer then will need to take into account how they see things, so that you can connect to them.

    When Paul went to Athens, he did that. It's the way.

    So, instead of telling the answer you would to a believer, first you begin by listening to them, so that you can connect. Then the answer will need to frame some things we all already usually know.
     
  8. martymonster

    martymonster Veteran

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    He doesn't allow it, he is responsible for it. He set up the world in such a way, that there would be suffering.
     
  9. Romans 8

    Romans 8 Well-Known Member

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    That's more or less the question.
     
  10. martymonster

    martymonster Veteran

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    Think of evil and suffering as a furnace that God uses to refine his creation.
     
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  11. starryshadows

    starryshadows Member

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    My understanding of it is that God can use suffering to bring about good. For example, let's say a man named Joe suffered a lot, lost many people he loved, had many painful experiences, etc. Well, we don't know much, while God does know all. It may be that through Joe's suffering, he cried out to God and Jesus forgave him and he was saved. Then, perhaps his suffering made him more able to reach other people because he had become a highly empathetic man. Because of this, when Joe became a Christian, he was able to be a compassionate person and he told people about Jesus and his strong faith and compassion led many people to believe in Jesus and be saved. So although he suffered, God brought about significantly higher levels of good from that suffering.
    That's just one example of good brought about through suffering. But I think suffering can also bring us closer to God, lead us to seek Him, make us more like who He called us to be. God uses all things for the good of those who love Him.
    Another reason, I believe, is that sin leads to suffering. We choose to do evil and we suffer because of sin.
     
  12. christine40

    christine40 Well-Known Member

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    said to husband couple hrs ago, wish there was somewhere to go to step out of this body and get a new one

    not complaining, just don't feel having daily pain leads to any growth (for me, anyway)
    maybe it does for others
     
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2019
  13. timothyu

    timothyu Well-Known Member

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    Long as he doesn't start suggesting what kind.
     
  14. christine40

    christine40 Well-Known Member

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    definitely a mystery why God allows suffering
    as there is so much suffering for groups of people around the world as well as individuals
     
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2019
  15. Neogaia777

    Neogaia777 Apprentice Supporter

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    In general, like in the world...?

    It is for the greatest and most best good and greatest outcome ultimately in the end... that we cannot get to without going through a world of suffering, or a world that is (in) suffering, and a world that causes or inflicts suffering, first...

    In an individual life, or more specifically, like on an individual by individual basis...?

    That's where it can get more complicated or complex and can be much harder to figure out and/or explain, because "God's ways are higher than our ways", ect... There seems to be no rhyme or reason to it, or for it sometimes, but I know that there is, it's just very, very complicated "for us", but not for, or "to God" though... "His ways are higher than our ways"... And "all of His thoughts" beyond encompassing, or "fully comprehending/understanding, or knowing", because they are "beyond encompassing and or comprehending"...

    Your just going to have to have faith, and have "this" (that I have just been saying), cause your probably not going to be able to figure it all out (from there)...

    You'll get into right and wrong, good or evil, and judgment, with your own self as judge... the very stuff that caused the fall and got us into this world and lives of suffering to begin with...

    God Bless!
     
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2019
  16. GraceBro

    GraceBro Member

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    I would look at suffering on the basis of God allowing people to choose to do good or evil as compared to the cost.You have to look at the importance of personal responsibility and how it is used by our God to better establish a relationship with His creation.
    Living God Ministries - Suffering
     
  17. Toro

    Toro Oh, Hello!

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    I wont pretend to know where you are or your pains but are you not able to offer empathy, experience and understanding to someone in the future that may be going through what you are going through now?

    Someone that may not have a husband to lean on and feel completely alone or that no one else knows how it feels if you did not offer that support?

    Sometimes the learning isnt about us, but about putting us in a place to help someone else.
     
  18. Haydee

    Haydee Member

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    You know, karma has been taken from you reap what you sow, which is biblical.
    I think there's purpose in suffering depending on how you look at it. Suffering if we allow it, brings us closer to God. And as already mentioned, Job is perfect example of this. He came out on top in the end, Christ blessed him abundantly. But Job wasn't perfect in his suffering, however he was faithful.
    I think from personal experience, suffering has made me stronger emotionally and more resilient. Being under trial is hard, but it comes back to attitude.
    Romans 5:3-5 ESV
    More than that, we rejoice in our sufferings, knowing that suffering produces endurance, and endurance produces character, and character produces hope, and hope does not put us to shame, because God's love has been poured into our hearts through the Holy Spirit who has been given to us.
     
  19. Daniel9v9

    Daniel9v9

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    There's a lot that can be said about this topic, but with respect to evil it's important to always bear in mind that evil is the result of sin; it's not from God, but rather the rejection and absence of God, who is supremely good, the author and source of all that is good. Following from this then, no matter how much suffering we experience in the world, no one is as longsuffering as God, and He showed us this most clearly in the person and works of our Lord Jesus Christ.

    So instead of asking "why is there suffering in the world?", we can ask "who is the most longsuffering?" - the answer is God. It should give us a different perspective and we may further appreciate the fact that sin, death and suffering are only temporary, and that they are truly defeated in Christ and that God will surely avenge and restore all things. So not only can we bear witness to God's great patience, His longsuffering, but also His supreme kindness, love, mercy and righteousness.
     
  20. Justified112

    Justified112 Active Member

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    He allows it so that you will depend upon Him. A season of suffering is worth 20 years of Bible study. You will learn things about God in times of adversity that would not know otherwise. It is in the crucible of suffering that our testimony is built. It's where we are sharpened and prepared for ministry to others who will experience the same thing.
     
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