Why does God allow suffering? Bear in mind, those that don't need a perfect distraction, suffer less

[Ken-1122]

ImCo:
They remember the pleasures and profits of sin but because they are under grace, their self indulgence in the flesh does not destroy their free will.

You don’t have to be under grace to choose sin and still have freewill, there are countless sinners out there serving each other in love. As a matter of fact, behavior wise, those under grace behave no better than those who are not.

 

[partinobodycular]

And what kind of adult a child will be is psychologically determined by age 5.

I think that we're still children. I think that you only have to look at the way people behave to understand that we're still children. We're still petty, and intolerant, and jealous, and judgmental. That sure looks a lot like children to me.

Consider the Kingdom is adulthood,

I can definitely buy that. But I don't think that we're anywhere close, and I think that to judge us as if we were would be a grave injustice, and one that a compassionate God would never be guilty of.

hence no admittance to the unworthy.

I don't think that there's any such thing as the unworthy...only the unfinished.

As the Bible states, this is a culling operation.

I don't think that it's a "culling operation" at all, I think that it's an ongoing process that started in that garden, and will be done when it's done.

 

[Ken-1122]

I think that we're still children. I think that you only have to look at the way people behave to understand that we're still children. We're still petty, and intolerant, and jealous, and judgmental. That sure looks a lot like children to me..

According to the Bible, isn't God intolerant of sin? Doesn't he claim to be a jealous God? Isn't he also judgmental?

 

[David's Harp]

You don’t have to be under grace to choose sin and still have freewill, there are countless sinners out there serving each other in love. As a matter of fact, behavior wise, those under grace behave no better than those who are not.

Hi Ken, I agree with most of your statement except what constitutes love in sinners is of an inferior quality to the love of Christ. It is a subtle yet profound distinction in its selflessness.

For one will scarcely die for a righteous person—though perhaps for a good person one would dare even to die - but God shows his love for us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. (Romans 5:7-9)

AND He suffered! You should think about this. Why would God Himself choose to suffer! Not just on the Cross, but all through His life here on earth. I tell you, we have a good God. I'm so thankful that I would even be considered as worthy to begin to understand His Greatness! Praise Him!

 

[partinobodycular]

According to the Bible, isn't God intolerant of sin?

Absolutely, what parent is? But what God is culling isn't the sinners...it's the sin. Somehow Christians don't seem to realize that. They don't seem realize what God is doing.

Doesn't he claim to be a jealous God? Isn't he also judgmental?

Yes, but one needs to understand these things in the context of a loving parent, not in the context of a vindictive overlord.

 

[David's Harp]

Absolutely, what parent is? But what God is culling isn't the sinners...it's the sin. Somehow Christians don't seem to realize that. They don't seem realize what God is doing.

Yes, but one needs to understand these things in the context of a loving parent, not in the context of a vindictive overlord.

You know what? You're right! But God HAS already done this through Jesus and His sacrifice on the Cross. But you must believe, and you must choose to follow Him in order to understand or appreciate it. In this way -being a part of Christ - you are dead to sin, and have new life. Otherwise you remain as dead in your sin. You might feel alive, but spiritually you're dead.
And to answer another question, before it's asked again, the reason Christians still sin is because it's a process. That's why Jesus says to us to take up our own crosses. Even though you're reborn through Him, the old person still remains, and we must sacrifice that by turning away from sin and temptation everyday, and putting to death the old man. But here's the great thing. He helps us. It's a living relationship, and He is patient. The most loving parent you can even think of is no match for the Love of God.

 

[partinobodycular]

You know what? You're right! But God HAS already done this through Jesus and His sacrifice on the Cross. But you must believe, and you must choose to follow Him in order to understand or appreciate it. In this way -being a part of Christ - you are dead to sin, and have new life. Otherwise you remain as dead in your sin. You might feel alive, but spiritually you're dead.
And to answer another question, before it's asked again, the reason Christians still sin is because it's a process. That's why Jesus says to us to take up our own crosses. Even though you're reborn through Him, the old person still remains, and we must sacrifice that by turning away from sin and temptation everyday, and putting to death the old man. But here's the great thing. He helps us. It's a living relationship, and He is patient. The most loving parent you can even think of is no match for the Love of God.

Sorry, I keep forgetting that it's not my job to tell Christians how to understand their own religion.

 

[timothyu]

An entire book tells us to put God's will ahead of our own, complete with examples of what happens when each path is taken or chosen. What could be simpler? Religion tends to use the will of God as an excuse to use the will of man for those so inclined. God set us free while man builds walls around us and considers anyone outside the enemy, contrary to the will of God.

 

[David's Harp]

Sorry, I keep forgetting that it's not my job to tell Christians how to understand their own religion.

You don't have to. We have enough Christians here on CF telling each other how to!
I'm all for the sharing and trying to come to an understanding of the Truth. We will all see that differently, but you must understand that God gives you new eyes. What you understand as suffering - without Christ, will be different to how you view suffering - with Christ.
May you come to understanding as God Wills.

 

[Gottservant]

Then why did he decide he must add suffering when he did not need to?

That’s what people seem unable to explain if God unrestrained.

You seem to be of the impression, that people would not suffer, if they did not need to.

People in Heaven willingly suffer.

People in Hell refuse to suffer, even when that is the only way.

 

[Gottservant]

You haven't given me any logic...none.

You made a claim...there exists a God and He's perfect.

Where's your logic in that?

And you make the claim that you exist and that you don't need to do anything else.

Where is the sincerity in that?

 

[Gottservant]

You guys seem to be making a good hash of the idea that God could do away with suffering, but the thread is specifically about "doing something about suffering". Granted doing away with suffering is doing something from God's perspective; but what about doing something from our perspective?

 

[timothyu]

but what about doing something from our perspective?

What!? Get out of the armchair and not blame others?

 

[RileyG]

But he can also bring good out of nothing. So why even bother with suffering?

....because God can bring good out of evil.

 

[Ken-1122]

Hi Ken, I agree with most of your statement except what constitutes love in sinners is of an inferior quality to the love of Christ. It is a subtle yet profound distinction in its selflessness.

I am not comparing the love of sinners to the love of Christ, I’m comparing the love of sinners who are not Christian to the love of sinners who ARE Christian.

AND He suffered! You should think about this. Why would God Himself choose to suffer! Not just on the Cross, but all through His life here on earth.

Yeah; especially when he didn't have to! All he had to do is create mankind WITHOUT the desire to sin and none of that would have been necessary.

 

[Ken-1122]

Absolutely, what parent is? But what God is culling isn't the sinners...it's the sin.

If God is culling sin, how come sin is as prevalent today as ever?

Yes, but one needs to understand these things in the context of a loving parent, not in the context of a vindictive overlord.

Most people are not like vindictive overlords thus are not like the children you described.[/QUOTE]

 

[zippy2006]

This is probably the most common answer from Christians to the Problem of Suffering. But for it to be true, then there has to be another premise that is true and no one ever states that premise.

"Free will necessarily leads to choosing evil at least some of the time"

If that isn't true, then claiming there is suffering because of free will doesn't work.

The common theistic answer is that free will does not necessitate suffering, but it does give rise to the possibility of suffering (via evil acts freely chosen). Thus when God created free will he did not create suffering, but he did create something that had the possibility of resulting in suffering.

On such an account the theist can point to free will as the sufficient cause of suffering without committing themselves to the position that suffering is a necessary consequence of free will.

 

[partinobodycular]

If God is culling sin, how come sin is as prevalent today as ever?

If you're a Young Earth Creationist that's a legitimate question, but if you're an evolutionist then the answer is a bit simpler...this kinda stuff takes time. We didn't evolve the ability to discern good from evil overnight, and we're not gonna suddenly become paragons of virtue either. Now some may prefer that God just snap His fingers and voila we're saints, but somehow I don't think it works that way. As human history goes that would probably make for a pretty boring story.

 

[Larniavc]

....because God can bring good out of evil.

Then why create the possibility of evil in the first place?

 

[Larniavc]

this kinda stuff takes time.

God could do it in an instant. He’s all powerful. Either he chose it that way or he wa constrained.