Why does God allow suffering? Bear in mind, those that don't need a perfect distraction, suffer less

How less than perfect can God's answer to suffering be?

  • It has to be perfect!

    Votes: 2 33.3%
  • It's a matter of chance!

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • It depends on what you've said!

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • It depends on the Devil!

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • It depends on lots of things!

    Votes: 2 33.3%
  • It doesn't matter.

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • It matters a little bit.

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • I wish it mattered less...

    Votes: 1 16.7%
  • I'm thankful for whatever God can give (selah)

    Votes: 1 16.7%

  • Total voters
    6

TedT

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And I do ten evil things a day by 6am, but I don't have free will. I'm just a clay pot.

I agree. ImCo, NO sinner has a free will or being enslaved to the addictive power of evil has no meaning.

BUT your fate must be chosen by your free will or you are not guilty for your sin nor your fate if it is bad. Only your life (not fate) is a clay pot wherein you work out the life HE chose for you to learn your lessons, ie, to have your eyes opened to your nakedness and so repent.
 
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Moral Orel

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Not wrong. One can have a possible choice of evil and yet the probability that they actually make an evil choice is zero. Just because that probability is zero does not mean that one does not have free will.
 
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Moral Orel

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Its a proof that in Christianity, the goodness of God is not under any scrutiny.

If you want to discuss whether Christianity is true or not, some other thread would be more suitable, IMHO.
You're incapable of discussing one claim from Christianity without proving all of Christianity?
 
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Moral Orel

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I agree. ImCo, NO sinner has a free will or being enslaved to the addictive power of evil has no meaning.

BUT your fate must be chosen by your free will or you are not guilty for your sin nor your fate if it is bad.
I don't have a free will but I must use my free will that I don't have...
 
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TedT

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I don't have a free will but I must use my free will that I don't have...
When you have a free will you can choose by your free will but if you choose sinfulness, you lose your free will to the enslaving addiction to evil.

Only rebirth frees one from the addiction to sin so they regain their free will.
 
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Marumorose

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Hello,

There are so many ways to answer that God does everything He can to avoid or abate suffering, that it can seem like no one has a definitive answer. However, we can start to understand that God is in the midst of suffering. For example, that God is able to distract us from suffering. The point is not that God distracts all suffering, where-ever it occurs. But that God shares the burden of suffering, with those that have faith in Him.

This bearing our burdens, as Christ did (watching the Father), is something you can fight or go with. There is wisdom in this, as suffering teaches us to develop character. If we didn't ever suffer, there would be no difference between Heaven and Hell. What we know, is that we can be distracted in degrees. Less suffering, is partly a choice. Partly a commitment, but partly a choice. If we have the opportunity to learn this, our suffering will always be less. This is the promise of God.

What we need to learn, in the process of (mentally) processing this, is that the burden we place on God, directly affects our ability to deal with the suffering that is inevitable. Even if we stayed our entire lives in Heaven, simply leaving Heaven, would be Hell. God's promise is not that we will stay for ever in Heaven, but that we will be able to endure what we suffer because of Hell, whether by someone else's actions or our own. And this is the kicker, we can even avoid suffering while we are suffering.

Avoiding suffering while we are suffering, allows us to be distracted from our suffering, especially suffering we can do nothing about. This is the principle:It is in effect, being forgiving of what God can do in this life, for the sake of the next. If God suffers, surely suffering has come to an end - for those that have faith in God's suffering. It might be hard to have faith that suffering will come to an end - that is the price of innocence, in one sense - but if we have simpler standards, as to what we will expect from God - in the face of that suffering - we will be going a great long way to ending the suffering that is needless (that is, if you can understand it: an ignorance of God).

God will be there with you in the suffering, but don't wait for your expectations of God, to define your response to His love - whether you are suffering a little or a lot, humility (that God continues to have a plan, for your life) will go a long way to preventing you from adding to that suffering needlessly: that is, asking for a more perfect solution to your suffering than He is able, all His efforts not withstanding, to give you. God wants to give you an end to suffering, but that doesn't mean He can immediately get it to you - be humble about what He can give you, and you will suffer less.

I hope we can understand this, in a bond of fellowship.
I am not trying to diminish anyone's suffering (that is up to God, ultimately).

God bless.
We do not suffer because we have to suffer. We suffer because of our sins. God is Love and does Not cause us to suffer. We actually punish ourselves. What God does is to warn us by giving us his Laws.
For example if you tell a child not to touch a burning candle, you are trying to protect or save the child. If the child decides to touch the candle and gets burned, that is the child's fault and not the parent.
Our Father in heaven is also trying to protect us but we choose to ignore his Law/warning/advise. And when we ignore his advise, WE will be burned by the Fire through pain and suffering.
May God Bless you
 
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partinobodycular

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We do not suffer because we have to suffer. We suffer because of our sins. God is Love and does Not cause us to suffer. We actually punish ourselves. What God does is to warn us by giving us his Laws.
For example if you tell a child not to touch a burning candle, you are trying to protect or save the child. If the child decides to touch the candle and gets burned, that is the child's fault and not the parent.
Our Father in heaven is also trying to protect us but we choose to ignore his Law/warning/advise. And when we ignore his advise, WE will be burned by the Fire through pain and suffering.
May God Bless you
This is the type of explanation that's fine for a child but deeply unsatisfying for anyone who actually takes the time to contemplate Christianity's portrayal of God.

God made us what we are. He wanted us to be sinners. He can't therefore absolve Himself for the suffering that His actions caused. This seems to be a simple case of blaming the victim.
 
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Larniavc

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If the child decides to touch the candle and gets burned, that is the child's fault and not the parent.
It is the parent’s fault. A good parent does not leave their child at risk of burning themselves. A good parent would put the candle out of the child’s reach.

Obviously.
 
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partinobodycular

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It is the parent’s fault. A good parent does not leave their child at risk of burning themselves. A good parent would put the candle out of the child’s reach.

Obviously.
The parent also realizes that children are just children, they're going to make poor choices, not because they're evil, but simply because they're curious, or afraid, or they just don't know any better. What parent truly believes that their child is never going to make a poor choice? We're exactly what God created us to be...children. Now I can't say that there's anything wrong with that, we are what we are, for better or worse, but I do know that God can't shirk His responsibility for the suffering inherent in what He Himself created.
 
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TedT

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So why do Christians continue to sin even after rebirth?

ImCo:
They remember the pleasures and profits of sin but because they are under grace, their self indulgence in the flesh does not destroy their free will. We do have to be trained to only choose righteousness by harsh chastisements and discipline, Hebrews 12:5-11, but we can choose between indulging in the flesh or serving each other in love, Galatians 5:13 You, my brothers and sisters, were called to be free. But do not use your freedom to indulge the flesh; rather, serve one another humbly in love.
 
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TedT

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God made us what we are. He wanted us to be sinners.

Unacceptable denigration of GOD's goodness that is completely unnecessary to understand the state of suffering in this world.

HE made us perfect with a free will.

We separated ourselves into two groups by our free will: those who put our faith in HIM as GOD and Saviour becoming HIS chosen ones and those who repudiated HIM as a liar and rebuked him as a false god driven by an evil megalomania who were condemned to hell for this unforgivable sin.

Some of HIS elect sinfully rebelled against this condemnation to hell of their sinful friends so the judgement was postponed until they could be made holy, ie, safe from experiencing the judgement for their sin by bringing them into accord with GOD's plans and purposes.

All sinners, both the redeemable and irredeemable live together as part of the sanctification of the sinful elect, ie, their being made holy and brought to a perfect accord with all GOD's plans for the judgement because they have personally experienced the results of how sinfulness corrupts the spirit of the sinner, ie, they have eaten of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil and have seen the proof of the absolute necessity of evil being destroyed from this reality so the heavenly marriage may proceed.
 
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Moral Orel

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HE made us perfect with a free will.
If Adam was perfect he wouldn't have chosen to eat from that tree.

God was capable of creating a man with free will that could possibly eat from the tree, but also had a 0% probability that he would eat from the tree.
 
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Larniavc

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Unacceptable denigration of GOD's goodness that is completely unnecessary to understand the state of suffering in this world.
Disagree. If no one forced God to include suffering and God is powerful enough to achieve any and all of his objective without including suffering what other logical conclusion can one arrive at?
 
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partinobodycular

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We separated ourselves into two groups by our free will: those who put our faith in HIM as GOD and Saviour becoming HIS chosen ones and those who repudiated HIM as a liar and rebuked him as a false god driven by an evil megalomania who were condemned to hell for this unforgivable sin.
And people wonder why some of us have such a low regard for Christians, they're not always the most lovable lot.
 
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Larniavc

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God was capable of creating a man with free will that could possibly eat from the tree, but also had a 0% probability that he would eat from the tree.
Indeed. I am fully capable of slow murder but have a 0.0 probability of doing it uncoerced.

Conclusive proof, if proof be need be that suffering (for the person I did not slowly murder and their family) can be absent while retaining free will.
 
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Larniavc

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We separated ourselves into two groups by our free will: those who put our faith in HIM as GOD and Saviour becoming HIS chosen ones and those who repudiated HIM as a liar and rebuked him as a false god driven by an evil megalomania who were condemned to hell for this unforgivable sin
Say, that’s a nice false dichotomy you got there, pal. Nice looking false dichotomy….. Sure would be a real shame if some wise guy pointed it out, eh?
 
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timothyu

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We're exactly what God created us to be...children.
And what kind of adult a child will be is psychologically determined by age 5. Consider the Kingdom is adulthood, hence no admittance to the unworthy. As the Bible states, this is a culling operation.
 
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