Why does God allow suffering? Bear in mind, those that don't need a perfect distraction, suffer less

[trophy33]

fixed it but it was a reply to OP who said "God did not trap us without giving us a way out"

I know...

 

[mama2one]

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[Larniavc]

Certainly but no one would 'know' what kindness was without first knowing its opposite.

They wouldn't need to know what it was. A dog doesn't know what kindness is. But it prefers that to being treated unkindly.

Giving some one a cake is not invalidated as a pleasant experience if one has not experienced cake theft.

 

[Larniavc]

Why does God have to 'fix it'?
Why does God have to operate on *your* timetable, and 'fix it' NOW?

I'm not asking why he has to. We know he doesn't have to do anything.

I'm asking why he hasn't. Is that a question you can answer?

 

[Larniavc]

God never changes, its impossible, by the definition of the highest substance.

Rules for people in various times and places change. Because we always change, by definition of a creature.

Yeah, he has. He used to see using a flood as a perfectly good way of committing genocide. But afterwards he promised he would not do it again. He used to demand that all sorts of other tribes be killed to the last donkey.

Not so much these days.

 

[Larniavc]

Judgements are commonly quicker.

Which is not stepwise change. You realise that you are contradicting yourself?

 

[Ken-1122]

Jesus' Gospel as compared to Christianity's gospel, was solely the Gospel of the Kingdom. There are roughly 70 verses that mention it in relation to Him and all His teachings revolve around it. There are your references about the kingdom, the four books of His words. The most familiar is in the Lord's prayer, where the Father's kingdom both physical nd as a government will come and His will will be done in earth at it is in Heaven. Paul is also reported in Acts to have taught the Kingdom Gospel rather than the one usually attributed to him.

John 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

Thank you for your perspective.

 

[Ken-1122]

Heaven is a higher dimension where spiritual beings are.
Or, more narrowly, it sometimes refers to the special part of Heaven - the throne of God and the most possible closeness to His glory.

Thanks for your perspective. If there is one thing I've noticed is when it comes to Christianity, different Christians will often have different perspectives concerning the same issue. Here I pretty much asked you and Timothyu the same question and got different answers due to perspective differences.

God, by definition, chooses only what is best, He cannot err. If we have some suffering, then it was a necessary part of the best.

So would you agree once this Earth and life has come to an end, and all that is left is Heaven and God's Kingdom, that suffering has to exist somewhere between the two?

 

[Ken-1122]

I'm one of those weird people that likes suffering. I just love a challenge, and the harder it is the better. Take away everything that I have. Leave me destitute and homeless. Afflict me with boils and make me blind, and I'd be like...this is so cool. It hurts like hell, but dang it's cool.

You've never truly suffered have you.

 

[Ken-1122]

Why does God have to 'fix it'?

Consider a Clock maker. Which would you consider the better Clock maker, and which is the worse?
1. A Clock maker who makes the perfect clock that always tells time perfectly, never wrong
2. A Clock maker who makes an imperfect clock, that occasionally goes wrong but he constantly corrects it so it is telling time correctly
3. A clock maker who makes an imperfect clock, and when it goes wrong, he does nothing but watch it give the wrong time of the day

I say 1 is the best clock maker, and 3 is the worse. Do you agree?

 

[partinobodycular]

You've never truly suffered have you.

Now that's an interesting question, because in some sense you're right. I haven't suffered, but only because what you consider suffering I don't. It's all about attitude. If you accept difficulties willingly and appreciatively, as simply being part of this glorious thing we call life, then you never have to suffer. I'm 65 years old, and if you think that I've gotten through life without some form of what you would call suffering then God must truly like me, and I can't help thinking that if He exists, then He probably does, because my acceptance of suffering is as much about faith as it is about stoicism. I haven't suffered simply because I choose not to view hardships as suffering.

 

[partinobodycular]

You've never truly suffered have you.

With the best of intents:

 

[timothyu]

No amount of your mental gymnastics seems to explain why God doesn’t just do it instantly.

Because it is not God that needs to learn how to do so.

 

[timothyu]

Thank you for your perspective.

Jesus is rather direct about His Gospel. God's will be done, not ours or the Adversary's. Christianity however has another agenda. Hence different perspectives.

 

[timothyu]

Consider a Clock maker.

4: A modern clock maker who makes an imperfect clock, and when it goes wrong, he becomes rich doing constant repairs or selling more defective replacement products

 

[Mink61]

I'm not asking why he has to. We know he doesn't have to do anything.

I'm asking why he hasn't. Is that a question you can answer?

Perhaps it's because the evil in this world is "not yet complete."

When God told Abram (a.k.a. Abraham) that his descendants would be enslaved in Egypt for 400+ years, He also told him, "In the fourth generation your descendants will return here, for the wickedness of the Amorites is not yet complete." (Genesis 15:16)

So, while God knew that the Amorites were already "wicked" in the days of Abram, He also knew that their wickedness was going to get worse before things became better for Abram et al.

Not only that, but God also knew that Moses had to be born first...and become the leader he was, before anything good would come out of this.

God has something we don't have, and that's 'insider information'. Yes, God has the power to do something NOW. But He also has the wisdom...

...not to.

You think things are bad now? Things are going to get much, much worse, before they get better.

Consider a Clock maker. Which would you consider the better Clock maker, and which is the worse?
1. A Clock maker who makes the perfect clock that always tells time perfectly, never wrong
2. A Clock maker who makes an imperfect clock, that occasionally goes wrong but he constantly corrects it so it is telling time correctly
3. A clock maker who makes an imperfect clock, and when it goes wrong, he does nothing but watch it give the wrong time of the day

I say 1 is the best clock maker, and 3 is the worse. Do you agree?

No, I wouldn't agree because people aren't clocks. They're not inanimate objects. They don't have free will.

 

[Ken-1122]

4: A modern clock maker who makes an imperfect clock, and when it goes wrong, he becomes rich doing constant repairs or selling more defective replacement products

My scenario was not about a Clock maker who sells them, he just made a single clock; perhaps for public use.

 

[Ken-1122]

No, I wouldn't agree because people aren't clocks. They're not inanimate objects. They don't have free will.

If God sends ya to Hell for doing wrong, by definition, Humans don't have free will either! At least not from God.

 

[Mink61]

If God sends ya to Hell for doing wrong, by definition, Humans don't have free will either! At least not from God.

Free will means having the ability to choose. It has nothing to do with the consequences of those choices.

 

[Larniavc]

Because it is not God that needs to learn how to do so.

Because it is not God that needs to learn how to do so.

But we’re talking about God choosing not to end evil just yet.

I’m not sure of what God not needing to learn has any significance. We know he knows everything.

The question here is why does God not act when he so obviously can?