Why does God allow suffering? Bear in mind, those that don't need a perfect distraction, suffer less

[MehGuy]

This thread has inspired me to reminiscence about my past Christian faith. Do any Christians or former Christians find/found suffering to be extremely beautiful and holy? I suspect such things exist on a spectrum. Pain and pleasure are often not mutually exclusive. Many probably find the most beautiful art, one that combines both.

Growing up I was drowned in such sensations, although I got the sense that others found my love and fascination for it a little off. Since losing my faith, I am not drowned in such things anymore. Although it makes sense, considering the empathetic connection is lost. Also, I personally find it morally repugnant. For most people who are actually suffering it doesn't feel "beautiful" or meaningful in any spiritual sense to them.

When I lost my faith and started to really become self-aware and compliment my previous spiritual feelings, I watched a show from Pen and Teller (cannot say the name here, lol) and they talked about Mother Teresa and how she seemed to have a spiritual love for suffering. The problem being, she ran hospices... pretty much a dumping place for the sick and dying to wither away. There are accusations that she denied care to these people, even refusing those their aspirin. While I'm fine with people being skeptical about this hearsay... hearing this story especially at the time I did... really emotionally affected me. Regardless of how true these accounts are, I do know that finding suffering beautiful and meaningful in a spiritual sense is very real. It's always haunted me that I'm very capable of having these feelings. Since then, I've tried my best to understand them psychologically and not partake in them. Being an atheist... I don't really find suffering beautiful in most contexts anymore... or at least... it's very diminished now. Still... this thread... helped me get back in my old spiritual mindset... and those feelings while dormant are still very there.

 

[timothyu]

Nah, that’s not true. Kindness can exist in the absence of unkindness.

Certainly but no one would 'know' what kindness was without first knowing its opposite.

 

[timothyu]

So.... Nobody goes to Heaven, the good people go to God's Kingdom; is that correct? If so, what is Heaven for if nobody goes there?

Correct.

God's private estate.

 

[David's Harp]

Hi Harp.
Twenty years. A bit than less than half of my life, and I haven't started to engage in this topic with my registration at CF. So, let's be generous and add another 20 years to it... I always had a faible for philosophy.

You don't know me. Even if you went through all my posts I ever made here, you wouldn't know half of me. You don't know what I did or did not do. You are only able to use the same backward reasoning that I criticize in this thread. Which again only confirms my beliefs.

I don't mind. Twenty years. I have heard it all. I have been called spawn of Satan for daring to even be here, by Christians. I have been lauded for my insight and "Christian" love, by Christians.

I'm not offended. I'm not insulted. I just find it interesting to see just what kind of approach people chose when they address an unbeliever for the first time.

Stay well!

Your right. I apologise for assuming that. I should have asked it as a question.

 

[Ken-1122]

Heaven is a state of emotional and intellectual being called a marriage, not a place.

It is the state which is the basis for the true (full) meaning of earthly marriage, the full unity, communion, fellowship of people who are married...the perfect marriage. This heavenly marriage is enhanced by being between everyone in the marriage, billions of people, and their GOD all at the same item in a telepathic union of communion and loving fellowship no matter where anyone actually is.

I noticed on your profile, it says you are Christian. I used to be Christian too and during my Christian years I read the Bible. But this is news to me; I got the impression from reading the Bible that Heaven was an actual place; but perhaps I missed that part. Is there actual scripture you can point to that supports this position? If not, how did you come to this conclusion?

 

[Ken-1122]

Correct.

God's private estate.

I noticed on your profile it says you are Christian. I used to be Christian as well, and during my Christian years I read the bible. But perhaps I missed that part; is there actual scripture you can point to that says this? If not, how did you come to this conclusion?

 

[timothyu]

is there actual scripture you can point to that says this? If not, how did you come to this conclusion?

Jesus' Gospel as compared to Christianity's gospel, was solely the Gospel of the Kingdom. There are roughly 70 verses that mention it in relation to Him and all His teachings revolve around it. There are your references about the kingdom, the four books of His words. The most familiar is in the Lord's prayer, where the Father's kingdom both physical nd as a government will come and His will will be done in earth at it is in Heaven. Paul is also reported in Acts to have taught the Kingdom Gospel rather than the one usually attributed to him.

John 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

 

[mama2one]

.

 

[Mink61]

Ah, so humanity invented evil? Why hasn’t God fixed it? Can he fix it or his he unable or unwilling to: because he’s not fixed it yet.

Why does God have to 'fix it'?
Why does God have to operate on *your* timetable, and 'fix it' NOW?

 

[trophy33]

Apart from all those Rabbinical rules, his stance on incest and child killing between the OT and the NT. And about the appropriateness of using extinction level events to fix things.

Aside from that God never changes.

God never changes, its impossible, by the definition of the highest substance.

Rules for people in various times and places change. Because we always change, by definition of a creature.

 

[trophy33]

Doesn’t answer my ‘why?’ question.

Judgements are commonly quicker.

 

[partinobodycular]

I'm one of those weird people that likes suffering. I just love a challenge, and the harder it is the better. Take away everything that I have. Leave me destitute and homeless. Afflict me with boils and make me blind, and I'd be like...this is so cool. It hurts like hell, but dang it's cool.

 

[trophy33]

So in your view, the Kingdom of God is not Heaven? How are they different?

Heaven is a higher dimension where spiritual beings are.
Or, more narrowly, it sometimes refers to the special part of Heaven - the throne of God and the most possible closeness to His glory.

The kingdom of God/the kingdom of heaven is not hard to understand. Definition of KINGDOM

How do you know this?

God, by definition, chooses only what is best, He cannot err. If we have some suffering, then it was a necessary part of the best.

 

[Gottservant]

There is something that we can do about suffering (humble ourselves).

God did not trap us, without giving us a way out.

What if humbling ourselves does not solve the problem? This life will be over, soon enough!

 

[trophy33]

There is something that we can do about suffering (humble ourselves).

God did not trap us, without giving us a way out.

What if humbling ourselves does not solve the problem? This life will be over, soon enough!

There are many ways we are every minute fighting against some kind of suffering. For example our body is constantly fighting various diseases, repairing itself etc. We, as individuals, eat, drink, exercise, contemplate, have discipline.... we also help other people to be healthy and happy. And as a society we try to find balance between freedom and evil, we have police, courts, laws... thats all a fight against evil/suffering.

We must try to minimize suffering and to resist evil. This fight/resistance against evil is the part of the universe's design.

 

[Larniavc]

HE cannot do evil for instance

Apart from ordering the dashing of children’s heads to death on one of his mandated nearby tribal genocides, obviously?

 

[Larniavc]

The ending of all evil in HIS created reality ushers in the time for the wedding of the Lamb to His church,

He could end evil at any time (what with being all powerful). Yet he chooses not to.

No amount of your mental gymnastics seems to explain why God doesn’t just do it instantly.

 

[mama2one]

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[trophy33]

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[mama2one]

fixed it