Why does God allow suffering? Bear in mind, those that don't need a perfect distraction, suffer less

[Larniavc]

He will...in due time. Now is not the time.

He could have done that six thousand years ago. No one wants to tell me why he waits.

 

[Mink61]

He could have done that six thousand years ago. No one wants to tell me why he waits.

Already posted about this.

God often waits until *evil* has 'risen' to a certain degree.

You might think there's a LOT of evil in this world NOW.

Meanwhile, this is just the beginning...

 

[Ken-1122]

The robber has free will. That is, the ability to choose to rob you...or not. And yes, the victim has the free will to choose whether or not to give the robber the money. Maybe the victim chooses to try to wrestle the gun away from the robber...or, the victim refuses to give him the money, and the gun jams...

Either way, the free will does not come from the robber, so as I said before, if God sends you to Hell for doing wrong, that free will to do wrong does not come from God.

 

[Mink61]

Either way, the free will does not come from the robber, so as I said before, if God sends you to Hell for doing wrong, that free will to do wrong does not come from God.

The robber has free will because he has the ability to say either 'yes' or 'no' to robbing someone. If he chooses to rob someone, he's also choosing the result of that action. If he's choosing not to rob someone, he's also choosing the result of that action.

And God doesn't "send" people to hell. Hell is the consequence of *our* poor choices. That is, of misusing our free will.

 

[Blade]

To much to get into. If God is out side of time and how we are told to measure it as in a thousand years is like (is like) a day a day like a thousand years then all this happened what 5-6 days ago. Now if Satan is the god of this world then God must allow Satan some rights. What did Christ say when they came to take Him? If this was His kingdom His servants would not allow them to take Him but would fight. Its all over the word like this. Take Gods word...its not thousands of years old. God just spoke it. And every word He spoke has life has to do what He said. His words can never return to Him void. Read His promises and take Him at what HE said not what me or some man tells you what GOD really meant to say or its dead not for us blah blah blah.

I am no one yet He keeps His word with me. Not once has it ever failed. Now for that to work in my life I can't be part in with God and part in with this this world. In all that I am saved living for ever yet if I try to stand on some promise of God yet eat what ever I want watch see read hear what ever I want. Those promises will not always work. He told me to have His word before my eyes day and night. He told me I am to pray all the time and about everything. I told to renew my mind to put on off the old man put on the new. To put on the whole armor of God. Told how to think and what to think on. Told how to treat others... on and on.

So if I do not do what GOD said..Satan has every right to go before God and accuse me and tell God why he has ever right to do this or that. God told Israel if you do the same sins those other nations do the earth will spit you out. Again way to much to get in to. If God said by His strips you were healed or read Psa 91.. on and on. Then we pray about it and we KNOW He heard us and we KNOW He will answer keep what He said in His word. We do not go by what we see happening in others lifes. But again we cannot have hands and feet in this world and with. We can't be part of this world part of Gods. Words along have a price. Think if we are told we will answer for ever word we ever spoke then that means our words have more power then we ever thought.

But praise GOD for His mercy and grace that when we don't live like we should we simply come boldly before Him we have that right we repent.. we get up dust off and.. all is as if we never sinned. If on the wrong path.. just ask Him to put you on the right path. YES that simple. We can't be perfect in this world CHRIST was. Its because God sees us through Him so we are righteous holy. So always when ever we miss it repent and your back on track again. Just do a 180 not a 360.

All I can say is what does GOD say in HIS word? Not anything I say but what does GOD say? Ask Him... man we have GOD living in us day in day out. We walk this life go to sleep wake up and Hes right there every min and do we ever talk to Him like we talk to our spouse of best friend? Like a song.. we treat God as if Hes sleeping on us yet its heard to answer when no one is praying to you. So talk to Him get to know HIm. The more time you spend with Him reading His word then worshiping Him. MAN that alone.. any time you have problems? RIGHT in the mist of those problems.. you just worship Him.. oh man does HE work in those moments. Take time to just listen. At first its so hard yet keep doing it. Read pray listen. How ever you want and you will start to hear. The mor this world goes silent the more we hear from Him., Just have to mean it with your heart . This is me... do don't take my word for anything JESUS CHRIST is so real...ask Him...He wants to know you more then you want to know Him.YES He knows you but He wants to KNOW you. Oh He wants to show Himself to you. He wants to hold you never let you go. He longs to see us after all this. Anyway

 

[Moral Orel]

I just love a challenge, and the harder it is the better. Take away everything that I have. Leave me destitute and homeless. Afflict me with boils and make me blind, and I'd be like...this is so cool. It hurts like hell, but dang it's cool.

Bologna. If you think that would be cool, then do it. Burn all your possessions, gouge your own eyes out, and move out onto the streets because "it would be so cool". You won't do it, because you don't think it's cool.

No, you're going to choose to stay in your comfortable life because you don't like suffering. Don't be phony.

 

[Moral Orel]

Consider a Clock maker. Which would you consider the better Clock maker, and which is the worse?
1. A Clock maker who makes the perfect clock that always tells time perfectly, never wrong
2. A Clock maker who makes an imperfect clock, that occasionally goes wrong but he constantly corrects it so it is telling time correctly
3. A clock maker who makes an imperfect clock, and when it goes wrong, he does nothing but watch it give the wrong time of the day

I say 1 is the best clock maker, and 3 is the worse. Do you agree?

4: A modern clock maker who makes an imperfect clock, and when it goes wrong, he becomes rich doing constant repairs or selling more defective replacement products

@Ken-1122 I'm just quoting you here so that we have a reference for what Tim is responding to.
@timothyu I've found that description you made is a pretty apt description for God. He created a world with suffering and evil built in so that He can receive glory for fixing it. God has Munchausen by Proxy.

 

[Ken-1122]

The robber has free will because he has the ability to say either 'yes' or 'no' to robbing someone.

I'm not talking about the robber having freewill, I'm talking about YOU. If the robber puts a gun to your head wanting your money, YOUR freewill does not come from the robber, it comes from yourself and your ability to choose life or death.

And God doesn't "send" people to hell. Hell is the consequence of *our* poor choices. That is, of misusing our free will.

Yeah' right! And the robber does not kill you, death is the consequence of your poor choice of not giving him all of your money!
Now see how ridicules that sounds?

 

[timothyu]

( I was reading the question as Why doesn't God get rid of satan now)]

People confuse Satan the adversary with the Jewish Tempter of scripture (as in the desert)

 

[partinobodycular]

If you think that would be cool, then do it. Burn all your possessions, gouge your own eyes out, and move out onto the streets because "it would be so cool".

That's pretty much the plan, except for the eye gouging part. That part seems a bit excessive. If God wants my eyes gouged out I have no problem with Him doing that.

Back in the 80's I used to minister to the homeless. Until at one point I decided that I would quit my job, give away everything that I had, and move out onto the streets. Just as you suggest. (Except for the eye part) I gave my job a years notice so that they could find someone to replace me. The only thing that I was concerned about was my elderly mom and dad who were living in a trailer park at the time. So for almost a year I asked God for just one thing...take care of my mom and dad. But the only answer that I could ever get back was..."That's what I put you there for". Anyway at the end of the year they still hadn't found anyone to replace me at work, so I decided to do what that voice had been telling me to do all along...take care of my mom and dad. I told my mom and dad that I would buy a house and they could come live with me for as long as they lived. Long story short mom and dad turned into mom, dad, type 1 diabetic brother and sister with health problems, and a nephew...and a much bigger house. My nephew moved out long ago. My brother died in '93. Dad in '08. Mom in '13. And my sister died a little over a year ago. So now it's just me in a big empty house. For over 30 years I did what God asked me to do, and now I'm just patiently waiting to see what He wants me to do next. It doesn't matter what it is. He could ask anything, and I'd gladly do it.

I don't tell you this to suggest that I'm some holier-than-thou kind of person, I'm not. It doesn't even say Christian in my profile. I'm telling you this so that you'll know that I'm being honest, sacrificing and suffering is something that I don't have a problem with. God could ask me to give up another 30 years, and if I have them, I'll give them.

If He wants to gouge my eyes out that's fine too. There's not much an old man like me has left to give anyway.

Heck, some people have overcome a whole lot more. It's not about the situation, it's about the attitude.

 

[TedT]

Is there actual scripture you can point to that supports this position? If not, how did you come to this conclusion?

It is my Christian opinion because unless GOD was just being highly extravagant creating the whole absolutely huge universe for no reason then HE made it to be our playground once we have our resurrected bodies and can travel and communicate over vast distances like the angels do now...

His kingdom is among us or in the midst of us or inside us, ie, an emotional rather than legal connection, which inclined me to accept the concept that the heavenly marriage of Revelation 19:6-8 must have an emotional fulfillment of loving communion, communication and fellowship based upon love:
Ephesians 5:25 “Husbands, love your wives” and
Titus 2:4 “teach the young women … to love their husbands”. not of legal papers etc. Putting the kingdom within together with the marriage of true love and you get the relationship of all the Church members with GOD as the basis for both.

Since the place of heaven is, will be, wherever the people in the heavenly marriage are, and the place of the kingdom will be wherever the people of the kingdom are, then any specific place in this huge universe is irrelevant and the emotional connection of of marriage in the kingdom is all.

 

[Ken-1122]

It is my Christian opinion because unless GOD was just being highly extravagant creating the whole absolutely huge universe for no reason then HE made it to be our playground once we have our resurrected bodies and can travel and communicate over vast distances like the angels do now...

His kingdom is among us or in the midst of us or inside us, ie, an emotional rather than legal connection, which inclined me to accept the concept that the heavenly marriage of Revelation 19:6-8 must have an emotional fulfillment of loving communion, communication and fellowship based upon love:
Ephesians 5:25 “Husbands, love your wives” and
Titus 2:4 “teach the young women … to love their husbands”. not of legal papers etc. Putting the kingdom within together with the marriage of true love and you get the relationship of all the Church members with GOD as the basis for both.

Since the place of heaven is, will be, wherever the people in the heavenly marriage are, and the place of the kingdom will be wherever the people of the kingdom are, then any specific place in this huge universe is irrelevant and the emotional connection of of marriage in the kingdom is all.

Thanks for your perspective.

 

[TedT]

He could end evil at any time (what with being all powerful). Yet he chooses not to.

No amount of your mental gymnastics seems to explain why God doesn’t just do it instantly.

Not my story...

Matt 13:27 The owner’s servants came to him and said, ‘Sir, didn’t you sow good seed in your field? Where then did the weeds come from?’ 28 ‘An enemy did this,’ he replied. [a reference to the explanation of this parable, ie, no more metaphor, in verses 36-39]

So the servants asked him, ‘Do you want us to go and pull them up?’ [to bring the judgement upon them?] 29 ‘NO!’ he said, [postpone the judgement because...] ‘if you pull the weeds now, you might uproot the wheat with them. 30 Let both grow together until the harvest. The time of the harvest is the time of the maturity of the wheat and the only maturity that saves a sinner from the judgment is a mature holiness!

The sinfulness of these sinful but good (elect) seed and the prior need to make them holy and bring them into accord with HIS plan in order to bring judgment upon the Satanic, is the story. So He could not just instantly fix things without destruction to those HE had already given HIS promise to never condemn, ie, to never bring judgement upon them, but to always save them from the legal and natural consequences of their choosing to become sinful in HIS eyes.

If you think this straight forward story fits your pejorative of my mental gymnastics then you are fiddling on the wrong street corner.

 

[TedT]

We know he doesn't have to do anything.

We know that to be true to HIS character as loving, righteous and just that HE must, HE needs to, judge evil at the earliest opportunity that exists. HE does indeed have to do this.

That HE hasn't yet judged evil means there is something holding HIM back and that something is that He will not break HIS promise to anyone. After HE promised some people to never judge them they then chose to sin, knowing they were safe from hell, so HE now must keep HIS election promise to them to not judge them but to redeem and sanctify them before HE can call the judgment upon all unredeemable sin, all evil.

 

[TedT]

Yeah, he has. He used to see using a flood as a perfectly good way of committing genocide. But afterwards he promised he would not do it again. He used to demand that all sorts of other tribes be killed to the last donkey.

Not so much these days.

Different sinners sinned for different reasons. The lessons about the nature of evil and the suffering it causes and the nature of the judgement against evil is different to suit the different lessons different sinners need to open their eyes.

 

[trophy33]

Yeah, he has. He used to see using a flood as a perfectly good way of committing genocide. But afterwards he promised he would not do it again. He used to demand that all sorts of other tribes be killed to the last donkey.

Not so much these days.

Bible is written from the human viewpoint. Almost the whole Old Testament was written in mythological age, not in philosophical age like the New Testament.

Therefore, its not a good idea to take philosophy or even science from the OT.

For example, when you read Gen 1 or Gen 2, you clearly see mythological language. When you read John 1, you clearly see philosophical language.

 

[trophy33]

Which is not stepwise change. You realise that you are contradicting yourself?

No. Contradiction is when two things cannot be both true. God can both prepare a shift for thousand years and judge a nation during one generation. There is no contradiction in it.

Similarly, evolution happens in millions of years, but a meteorite can wipe out life on a whole continent in seconds/minutes.

Or a city is built during centuries, but a war can level it quickly.

 

[trophy33]

Thanks for your perspective. If there is one thing I've noticed is when it comes to Christianity, different Christians will often have different perspectives concerning the same issue. Here I pretty much asked you and Timothyu the same question and got different answers due to perspective differences.

Sure, its almost everywhere. Physicists differ, nutrition specialists differ, doctors differ, philosophers differ, economists differ... I wonder if there is an area where experts agree.

So would you agree once this Earth and life has come to an end, and all that is left is Heaven and God's Kingdom, that suffering has to exist somewhere between the two?

What kind of suffering? If you postulate a situation without a physical realm, then for example physical suffering (like death, injuries, hunger...) will no longer be present.

And before you ask, I do not know about suffering (or what kinds) in spiritual realm.

 

[Larniavc]

I was reading the question as Why doesn't God get rid of satan now)

That actually was the intent of my question. He’s had 6000 years. What’s he waiting for?

 

[Larniavc]

God often waits until *evil* has 'risen' to a certain degree.

Why? What for?