Why does God allow people to fall away?

Invalidusername

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Why does God allow His children to become apostates? Why present them with grace and then watch them fall away? I want to believe in eternal security but I know it is false. However it does make sense that an eternal God should secure His children. HOWEVER Lucifer was at one point perfect and sinless, yet God allowed him to fall away and become reprobate forever. God created Lucifer KNOWING that he would spend eternity in hell. Why would God do this? Why does God save someone knowing that if he falls away he will be damned forever with no chance of restoration? Why tease them with a bit of grace and then allow Satan to steal it from their hearts and turn them over to reprobate minds forever?
 

JohnB445

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My conclusion is its all done by accident. No person would purposely fall away, that doesn't make sense.

Its like a someone warning another not to put their hand in a fire when the guy already knows what will happen if he puts his hand in a fire.

Nobody does it on purpose.
 
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Monk Brendan

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Why does God allow His children to become apostates? Why present them with grace and then watch them fall away? I want to believe in eternal security but I know it is false. However it does make sense that an eternal God should secure His children. HOWEVER Lucifer was at one point perfect and sinless, yet God allowed him to fall away and become reprobate forever. God created Lucifer KNOWING that he would spend eternity in hell. Why would God do this? Why does God save someone knowing that if he falls away he will be damned forever with no chance of restoration? Why tease them with a bit of grace and then allow Satan to steal it from their hearts and turn them over to reprobate minds forever?
God respects our free will.
 
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Invalidusername

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Judas fell away and most believe that he never returned to God, though it is possible that he did at the last moment.

He's called the child of perdition so no he didn't.
 
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Johnny4ChristJesus

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Why does God allow His children to become apostates? Why present them with grace and then watch them fall away? I want to believe in eternal security but I know it is false. However it does make sense that an eternal God should secure His children. HOWEVER Lucifer was at one point perfect and sinless, yet God allowed him to fall away and become reprobate forever. God created Lucifer KNOWING that he would spend eternity in hell. Why would God do this? Why does God save someone knowing that if he falls away he will be damned forever with no chance of restoration? Why tease them with a bit of grace and then allow Satan to steal it from their hearts and turn them over to reprobate minds forever?

Why is it God's fault if He allows people to use their own free will against Him and themselves? If they fell away, they decided His grace wasn't enough and that what He promises isn't worth what they have to endure. Should He violate free will and force them?
 
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Neostarwcc

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I posted this in another thread similar to this but one of the fruits of the Holy Spirit is that the Holy Spirit keeps us in the faith. The fact that you left the faith and are now being convicted by the Holy Spirit to come back means that you are born of God. If you were not born of God than you never would have returned to the faith. You are perfectly welcome back to the faith and Christ will welcome you back with open arms. Its your choice and your own free will. Many people have departed from the faith and have come back.

Regardless of whether or not you believe in eternal security when Christ said that no believer would be lost and when God promised us eternal life he meant it. Every single Christian who is born of God will always be born of God nobody can take the new birth away.
 
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ClementofA

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ClementofA

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He's called the child of perdition so no he didn't.

While I was with them, I kept them in thy name. Those whom thou gavest me have I kept; and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition, that the scripture may be fulfilled. (Jn.17:12)

The koiné Greek word for "lost" in that passage is apollumi.

"The use of "apollumi" is interesting; it's the same word Jesus uses to describe the people that he came to find and save. The same verb is used in the parable of the lost coin in Luke 15:8-10, which describes a woman who has "apollumi" a silver coin. After "losing" the coin, she "seeks diligently" until she finds it. After she finds it, she then "rejoices" with her friends. In the parable, the lost coin represents a sinner, while the woman represents God. The woman finding her coin is akin to a sinner repenting (God gets back something that is very valuable to him)."

Apollumi is also used of the "lost" prodigal son who is later found (Luke 15).

Everyone, before they are saved, are "children of disobedience", "children of the devil" and "children of wrath":

By this the children of God and the children of the devil can be distinguished:Anyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is anyone who does not love his brother. (1 Jn.3:10)

in which you used to walk when you conformed to the ways of this world and of the ruler of the power of the air, the spirit who is now at work in the sons of disobedience. (Eph.2:2)

Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others. (Eph.2:3)

So Judas being called "son of perdition" is nothing special.

His destiny, along with the rest of mankind, is to have God living in him as his all:

And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then the Son also himself shall be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all. (1 Cor.15:28)

Rom 5:18 Consequently, then, as it was through one offense for ALL MANKIND for condemnation, thus also it is through one just act for ALL MANKIND for life's justifying."
Rom 5:19 For even as, through the disobedience of the one man, THE MANY were constituted sinners, thus also, through the obedience of the One, THE MANY shall be constituted just."

Col.1:16 For by Him ***ALL*** was created that are in HEAVEN and that are on EARTH, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers.
All was created through Him and for Him.
20 and by Him to reconcile ***ALL*** to Himself, by Him, whether on EARTH or in HEAVEN, having made peace through the blood of His cross.

Phil.2:9 For this reason also, God highly exalted Him, and bestowed on Him the name which is above every name, 10 so that IN the name of Jesus every knee will bow, of those who are in heaven and on earth and under the earth, 11 and that every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

1 Cor.15:28 Now, whenever ALL may be subjected to Him, then the Son Himself also shall be subjected to Him Who subjects ALL to Him, that God may be All in ALL.)

Rev.5:13 And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are on the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for the eons of the eons.

Isa.45:21b and there is no God else beside me; a just God and a Saviour; there is none beside me. 22 Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else. 23 I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear.

1 Cor.3:15 If any man’s work is burned, he will suffer loss, but he himself will be saved, but as through fire.

1 Cor.15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

Matt 5:25-26 Come to terms quickly with your adversary before it is too late and you are dragged into court, handed over to an officer, and thrown in jail. I assure you that you won't be free again until you have paid the last penny.

Mat 18:34 And his lord was wroth, and delivered him to the tormentors, till he should pay all that was due unto him.

Lk.12:47 That servant who knows his master’s will but does not get ready or follow his instructions will be beaten with many blows. 48 But the one who unknowingly does things worthy of punishment will be beaten with few blows.

Lk.15:3 And he spake this parable unto them, saying, 4 What man of you, having an hundred sheep, if he lose one of them, doth not leave the ninety and nine in the wilderness,
and go after that which is lost, until he find it?
8 Either what woman having ten pieces of silver, if she lose one piece, doth not light a candle, and sweep the house, and seek diligently till she find it?

1 Tim 4:10 – For it is for this we labor and strive, because we have fixed our hope on the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of believers.

1 Tim.2:3 God our Saviour; 4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

Jn.1:29 The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said, “Look, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!"

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Invalidusername

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Freewill. Yet He still works to save apostates (1 Tim.1:19-20).


Hebrews 6 says otherwise.

It sounds like you are exercising your will God-ward. How did you fall away?

Yes but I have no Godly remorse. Everything I do is because I will myself to. Sin was what made me fall away. Quenched the Holy Spirit.
 
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ClementofA

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Hebrews 6 says otherwise.

For another viewpoint you might consider:

impossible to renew unto repentance (Heb.6:3-6)

Yes but I have no Godly remorse. Everything I do is because I will myself to. Sin was what made me fall away. Quenched the Holy Spirit.

God requires your obedience for salvation (Heb.5:9), not your feelings.

Feelings are fickle & not to be relied upon.

If you think you may have a demonic related problem (e.g. oppression, as distinct from possession), i'd suggest seeking a deliverance ministry that you are willing to trust.

OTOH perhaps this ordeal for you, like Job's trial, is for a number of reasons, e.g. so you can know of loss of soul that others are experiencing & be able to better minister to them. Or to prepare you for deliverance ministry.

The king is Daniel 4 lost his mind, sanity (or soul) for 7 years before God restored it to him again.

I'll suggest that you may find comfort & direction in reading the book of Psalms, & other OT Scriptures, e.g.:

How long, O Lord? Will you forget me forever?
How long will you hide your face from me? (Psalm 13:1)

The LORD is my shepherd...He restoreth my soul (Psa.23)
 
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eleos1954

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Why does God allow His children to become apostates? Why present them with grace and then watch them fall away? I want to believe in eternal security but I know it is false. However it does make sense that an eternal God should secure His children. HOWEVER Lucifer was at one point perfect and sinless, yet God allowed him to fall away and become reprobate forever. God created Lucifer KNOWING that he would spend eternity in hell. Why would God do this? Why does God save someone knowing that if he falls away he will be damned forever with no chance of restoration? Why tease them with a bit of grace and then allow Satan to steal it from their hearts and turn them over to reprobate minds forever?

Love & Freewill

You can't have true love without freewill. One can not force another to love another. God knows this. We know this. God creates His intelligent beings with freewill as proven with Lucifer and 1/3 of fallen angels.

God knew Lucifer and the angels would choose otherwise (foreknowledge) but the choice was theirs .... just like it is was for Adam & Eve and just like it is for us.

As long as a person is alive on earth and before the 2nd coming of our Lord, they have the opportunity to choose.
 
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JoeP222w

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Why does God allow His children to become apostates? Why present them with grace and then watch them fall away? I want to believe in eternal security but I know it is false. However it does make sense that an eternal God should secure His children. HOWEVER Lucifer was at one point perfect and sinless, yet God allowed him to fall away and become reprobate forever. God created Lucifer KNOWING that he would spend eternity in hell. Why would God do this? Why does God save someone knowing that if he falls away he will be damned forever with no chance of restoration? Why tease them with a bit of grace and then allow Satan to steal it from their hearts and turn them over to reprobate minds forever?

Recommend you spend some time studying these passages:


John 6:35-40 Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life; whoever comes to me shall not hunger, and whoever believes in me shall never thirst. (36) But I said to you that you have seen me and yet do not believe. (37) All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out. (38) For I have come down from heaven, not to do my own will but the will of him who sent me. (39) And this is the will of him who sent me, that I should lose nothing of all that he has given me, but raise it up on the last day. (40) For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who looks on the Son and believes in him should have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.”

Romans 8:29-30 For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. (30) And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified.

Romans 8:38-39 For I am sure that neither death nor life, nor angels nor rulers, nor things present nor things to come, nor powers, (39) nor height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Romans 9:13-23 As it is written, “Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.” (14) What shall we say then? Is there injustice on God's part? By no means! (15) For he says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.” (16) So then it depends not on human will or exertion, but on God, who has mercy. (17) For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, “For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I might show my power in you, and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth.” (18) So then he has mercy on whomever he wills, and he hardens whomever he wills. (19) You will say to me then, “Why does he still find fault? For who can resist his will?” (20) But who are you, O man, to answer back to God? Will what is molded say to its molder, “Why have you made me like this?” (21) Has the potter no right over the clay, to make out of the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for dishonorable use? (22) What if God, desiring to show his wrath and to make known his power, has endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, (23) in order to make known the riches of his glory for vessels of mercy, which he has prepared beforehand for glory—
 
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Phil 1:21

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They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us. 1 John 2:19

And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all those he has given me, but raise them up at the last day. John 6:39
 
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