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Why do you feel a NEED for theistic evolution?

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Job 33:6

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If Man and ape share a common ancestor, why does man have only 46 chromosomes yet apes have 48?

I'll quote myself, 236 is on chromosome #2:

See post #358 for a refutation of number 1 through 4. I'll await your response.

Post #358:
Why do you feel a NEED for theistic evolution?

Here are other posts you haven't responded to:

Genetics:

Post 236:
Why do you feel a NEED for theistic evolution?
Post 266:
Why do you feel a NEED for theistic evolution?

Geology:
Post 313:
Why do you feel a NEED for theistic evolution?

Paleontology:
Post 376 and 377 (Which wasn't directed to you but you have suggested is false without clarity):
Why do you feel a NEED for theistic evolution?
Why do you feel a NEED for theistic evolution?

And just because I enjoyed this one:

Post #347
Why do you feel a NEED for theistic evolution?
 
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Job 33:6

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Neil Shubin presents the discredited“recapitulation theory”—the notion that embryos replay their evolutionary history—as if it were true." -Jjim Thinnsen

Uh no. Why don't actually read his material rather than listening to lies about him (your link actually doesn't even mention him).

Here are a couple quotes in one of his books:

"Heckles recapitulation theory had been widely discredited... and challenged by new discoveries. Haeckel had such interest in embryology that he sowed the seeds for his own downfall. New data didn't support haeckles recapitulation theory In fact it did quite the opposite. Haeckels idea [recapitulation theory] was wrong." - Neil Shubin, Some Assembly Required.

It doesn't get more straight forward than that. You're just telling blatant lies about what scientists are saying. Can you admit to this? -komatiitebif

Some Assembly Required


Nice "Bait and Switch" You come on here promoting the delusional fairytale "Your Inner Fish" and when shown what an idiotic fantasy it is you CHANGE TO ANOTHER book written TWELVE YEARS LATER!! LOL-Jjim Thinnisen

Even in his earlier book he does not suggest it is true either. On the contrary, Neil Stated the following in his older "your inner fish": " Time and new evidence have treated Von Baer much more kindly [than Haeckel]. In comparing embryos of one species to adults of another, Haeckel was comparing apples to oranges. The more meaningful comparison is one where we can ultimately uncover the mechanisms that drive evolution. "- Neil Shubin, Your Inner Fish.

Your Inner Fish

And this is literally the only part of the book that even mentions Haeckels theory.In the above quotes, Neil states that Haeckel was flawed in comparing apples to oranges and that evidence was not in his favor.

Will you now admit that you lied when you suggested that Neil Shubin presented Haeckels theory as if it were true? You still have yet to show where in any of Neil's books or anywhere at any time that Neil has suggested such.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/1101871334/ref=dbs_a_w_dp_1101871334

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/0307277453/ref=dbs_a_w_dp_0307277453

@jJIM THINNSEN
 
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The Barbarian

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I guess we get to play the dishonest Darwinian game of semantics....

Rather the dishonest creationist game of semantics. "Evolution" has a very specific meaning in science. Originally, it was "descent with modification." Then, with the discovery of genetics, it was "change in allele frequency in a population over time." Creationists often try to avoid the actual pheonomena, and confuse agencies of evolution (like natural selection), or consequences of evolution (like common descent) with the real thing.

DO YOU MEAN..

(1)... Variation,

Only inheritable variation is evolution.

Adaptation,

Only inheritable adaptation is evolution.

Speciation

Technically, that's what is called "macroevolution." Microevolution is evolution within a species, and macroevoltuion is the evolution of new taxa.

or ....De-volution?

No, that was the one-hit joke of a 1980s pop group. There is no "de-volution." Only change. What did you think "de-volution" is?

Stuff like resistance to viruses, or change in pigmentation, or evolution of a new digestive organ, is adaptive evolution. Not all evolution is adaptive. Some is merely genetic drift or neutral changes that have little or no adaptive consequences.

Slow Microbe to Microbiologist (UCA for all flora and fauna over 3 BYs)

Actually, all humans evolved from other pimates. There's a huge amount of genetic, fossil, and anatomical data documenting the fact. As you learned, even honest YE creationists admit that the many fossil transitionals of hominids is "very good evidence for macroevolutionary theory."

And DONT sit there and try to assert that #1 plus "deep time" leads to #2

As you learned, it's mutation and natural selection. And direct observation shows that's all that is needed.

as I will embarrass that silly assertion all over the internet..

I think if you calmed yourself, and tried to put a cogent argument together, you'd probably do better than you're doing.

You will be required to put your cards on the table here.... I just KNOW you are going to enjoy this discussion with me... Cant you feel it too?

So far, lots of fun. And we're just starting.

YOU HAVE DEGREES? IN WHAT FIELD?..

Fields. My first degree was in the area of biology. Without being specific enough to be identifying myself, I did graduate work in immunology and another degree in systems, as it applies to biological systems and human structure and capabilities.

Studied entomology, mainly systematics/parasitology/medical ent. And I completed all my pre-med courses, getting drafted and then married before deciding not to go on there.

Barbarian, regarding creationist admissions of common descent:
Or forming new ones. Or modifying old ones. Usually, breaking genes won't produce new taxa. AIG and ICR admit to new species, genera, and families descending from common ancestors, and sometimes,they go a bit beyond that. That's a load of common descent.
 
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jJIM THINNSEN

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Neil Shubin presents the discredited“recapitulation theory”—the notion that embryos replay their evolutionary history—as if it were true." -Jjim Thinnsen

Uh no. Why don't actually read his material rather than listening to lies about him (your link actually doesn't even mention him).

Here are a couple quotes in one of his books:

"Heckles recapitulation theory had been widely discredited... and challenged by new discoveries. Haeckel had such interest in embryology that he sowed the seeds for his own downfall. New data didn't support haeckles recapitulation theory In fact it did quite the opposite. Haeckels idea [recapitulation theory] was wrong." - Neil Shubin, Some Assembly Required.

It doesn't get more straight forward than that. You're just telling blatant lies about what scientists are saying. Can you admit to this? -komatiitebif

Some Assembly Required


Nice "Bait and Switch" You come on here promoting the delusional fairytale "Your Inner Fish" and when shown what an idiotic fantasy it is you CHANGE TO ANOTHER book written TWELVE YEARS LATER!! LOL-Jjim Thinnisen

Even in his earlier book he does not suggest it is true either. On the contrary, Neil Stated the following in his older "your inner fish": " Time and new evidence have treated Von Baer much more kindly [than Haeckel]. In comparing embryos of one species to adults of another, Haeckel was comparing apples to oranges. The more meaningful comparison is one where we can ultimately uncover the mechanisms that drive evolution. "- Neil Shubin, Your Inner Fish.

Your Inner Fish

And this is literally the only part of the book that even mentions Haeckels theory.In the above quotes, Neil states that Haeckel was flawed in comparing apples to oranges and that evidence was not in his favor.

Will you now admit that you lied when you suggested that Neil Shubin presented Haeckels theory as if it were true? You still have yet to show where in any of Neil's books or anywhere at any time that Neil has suggested such.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/1101871334/ref=dbs_a_w_dp_1101871334

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/0307277453/ref=dbs_a_w_dp_0307277453

@jJIM THINNSEN


YOU HAVE MADE IT CLEAR THAT YOU HAVE NO INTEREST IN DEBATE (MANY TIMES) THERFORE, I AM NOT HERE TO PLAY YOUR GAME. I AM HERE TO EXPOSE YOU FOR OTHERS WHO MAY NOT KNOW THIS SUBJECT LIKE I DO.. I HAVE ASKED QUESTION AFTER QUESTION AND GET DODGED EVETY TIME..


"As I've said before:

When you're ready to actually address my posts, I'll be here. Otherwise I really can't be bothered."

SR: In your book, you have this diagram that compares the embryos of lots of different species of animals quite wide ranging species and a different periods through the development. And early on, they all look really strangely similar. And could you tell us a bit about that, that diagram and the implications of that, please?

NEAL SHUBIN "Yeah, so that diagram is a version of one that was done by Karl Ernst von Baer who was a embryologist who lived decades before Darwin and he was interested In asking the question, you know, how does the development from egg to adult of critters is different as turtles and fish and people in my mice? How do they differ?

And so he was collecting lots of embryos, and storing them in vials. So he’d have these different embryonic stages of different embryos, and he put them in vials with with alcohol or formalin and to preserve their, you know, preserve them. So because he looked at them under the microscope, but he forgot to label or the I believe the labels fell off a few of his vials, fell off a vial that contained, you know, so he had like turtle and mouse and fish embryos in these vials, but he knew that they were that but he didn’t know which was which.

And you couldn’t tell them apart, because they’re all early embryos. And so this is sort of led him to think about, you know, his theory and his ideas when I observe differentiation, that is, early embryonic and early embryonic stages of critters of different species tend to look much more Similar then do later embryonic stages. And that’s what you see in that, in that diagram you I mean, I put a version of his which is, you know, turtles and, and mice and fish and birds and so forth.

And early embryonic early embryonic stages, you know they, you might find some differences but they tend to look extremely like and then they acquire those differences later in in development. And that was really important. And then a version of the same sort of theory was altered a bit came out after Darwin published the origin of species. And it turned out to be wrong, but and not a good generalist and not a very good generalisation, but it’s stimulated an enormous amount of work.

And that was the notion that by Ernst Haeckel, which was the famous one: ontogeny recapitulates phylogeny, and by that what he meant is development from egg to adult ontogeny recapitulates phylogeny, which is evolutionary history. So his theory was a lot. It’s very different from going bears. His was basically if you look at the development of any species We’ll track its evolutionary history.

So if you looked at the human embryo, you’d see it go through it would go through like a fish stage, then amphibian stage and a reptile stage and so forth and so forth. Well, you can imagine, oh, and also Haeckel was an amazingly good and talented artist as well. And so his book was just rich with illustrations, rich with ideas, rich with conjectures, and so forth, and it was enormously influential.

Turns out that’s probably not a good generalisation that ontogeny recapitulates phylogeny. We see it in some structures, though, like if you look at the development of our kidneys, there definitely is sort of a it does track its evolutionary history to some extent, as well as some other structures, but it’s not like a law of nature, like what he wanted to then what he wanted to propose.

But honestly, I think where Haeckel was most influential was really in stimulating a an interest in studying embryos, as vehicles to understand evolutionary history even though his in particular theory is wrong. It stimulated so many others To think about embryos in new ways, and then that in so he was important, just like before, I actually kind of think that in being wrong in how it stimulated, you know, the, you know, really foundational work by others."
 
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jJIM THINNSEN

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Rather the dishonest creationist game of semantics. "Evolution" has a very specific meaning in science. Originally, it was "descent with modification." Then, with the discovery of genetics, it was "change in allele frequency in a population over time." Creationists often try to avoid the actual pheonomena, and confuse agencies of evolution (like natural selection), or consequences of evolution (like common descent) with the real thing.



Only inheritable variation is evolution.



Only inheritable adaptation is evolution.



Technically, that's what is called "macroevolution." Microevolution is evolution within a species, and macroevoltuion is the evolution of new taxa.



No, that was the one-hit joke of a 1980s pop group. There is no "de-volution." Only change. What did you think "de-volution" is?

Stuff like resistance to viruses, or change in pigmentation, or evolution of a new digestive organ, is adaptive evolution. Not all evolution is adaptive. Some is merely genetic drift or neutral changes that have little or no adaptive consequences.



Actually, all humans evolved from other pimates. There's a huge amount of genetic, fossil, and anatomical data documenting the fact. As you learned, even honest YE creationists admit that the many fossil transitionals of hominids is "very good evidence for macroevolutionary theory."



As you learned, it's mutation and natural selection. And direct observation shows that's all that is needed.



I think if you calmed yourself, and tried to put a cogent argument together, you'd probably do better than you're doing.



So far, lots of fun. And we're just starting.



Fields. My first degree was in the area of biology. Without being specific enough to be identifying myself, I did graduate work in immunology and another degree in systems, as it applies to biological systems and human structure and capabilities.

Studied entomology, mainly systematics/parasitology/medical ent. And I completed all my pre-med courses, getting drafted and then married before deciding not to go on there.

Barbarian, regarding creationist admissions of common descent:
Or forming new ones. Or modifying old ones. Usually, breaking genes won't produce new taxa. AIG and ICR admit to new species, genera, and families descending from common ancestors, and sometimes,they go a bit beyond that. That's a load of common descent.



"Actually, all humans evolved from other pimates.

THIS IS WHAT IS CALLED AN ASSERTION BASED ON A PHILOSOPHICAL WORLDVIEW OF WANNABE APES... DONT INCLUDE ME IN THIS PERVERSION I AM A DECENDENT OF ADAM THE FIRST HUMAN CREATED BY GOD JUST LIKE IT SAYS IN THE BIBLE.. I KNOW OVAL-EARTHERS HATE THE BIBLE AND DECIDED TO WRITE THEIR OWN BIBLE.. I AM STILL WAITING FOR THE OFFICIAL "OVAL-EARTHER BIBLE" WHERE THEY THROW OUT ALL OF THE "FALSE STUFF" AND ONLY POST THE "TRUE STUFF".. LOL

There's a huge amount of genetic, fossil, and anatomical data documenting the fact."

LOL ANOTHER STATEMENT OF FAITH.. YOU ARE CONFUSING "IMAGINATION" WITH SCIENTIFIC EVIDENCE... IF YOU THINK I AM WRONG, PLEASE GO AHEAD AND POST SOME OF THIS "DATA" THAT DOCUMENT THAT YOU EVOVLED FROM "OTHER PRIMATES" AND WATCH WHAT I DO TO IT!! IF YOU THINK YOU ARE CRABBY NOW, JUST WAIT UNTIL I EXPOSE YOUR SO CALLED "DATA" FOR ALL TO SEE!


"As you learned, even honest YE creationists admit that the many fossil transitionals of hominids is "very good evidence for macroevolutionary theory."

I DONT KNOW ANY OF THESE "HONEST YE CREATIONISTS" YOU SPEAK OF..
 
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jJIM THINNSEN

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Rather the dishonest creationist game of semantics. "Evolution" has a very specific meaning in science. Originally, it was "descent with modification." Then, with the discovery of genetics, it was "change in allele frequency in a population over time." Creationists often try to avoid the actual pheonomena, and confuse agencies of evolution (like natural selection), or consequences of evolution (like common descent) with the real thing.



Only inheritable variation is evolution.



Only inheritable adaptation is evolution.



Technically, that's what is called "macroevolution." Microevolution is evolution within a species, and macroevoltuion is the evolution of new taxa.



No, that was the one-hit joke of a 1980s pop group. There is no "de-volution." Only change. What did you think "de-volution" is?

Stuff like resistance to viruses, or change in pigmentation, or evolution of a new digestive organ, is adaptive evolution. Not all evolution is adaptive. Some is merely genetic drift or neutral changes that have little or no adaptive consequences.



Actually, all humans evolved from other pimates. There's a huge amount of genetic, fossil, and anatomical data documenting the fact. As you learned, even honest YE creationists admit that the many fossil transitionals of hominids is "very good evidence for macroevolutionary theory."



As you learned, it's mutation and natural selection. And direct observation shows that's all that is needed.



I think if you calmed yourself, and tried to put a cogent argument together, you'd probably do better than you're doing.



So far, lots of fun. And we're just starting.



Fields. My first degree was in the area of biology. Without being specific enough to be identifying myself, I did graduate work in immunology and another degree in systems, as it applies to biological systems and human structure and capabilities.

Studied entomology, mainly systematics/parasitology/medical ent. And I completed all my pre-med courses, getting drafted and then married before deciding not to go on there.

Barbarian, regarding creationist admissions of common descent:
Or forming new ones. Or modifying old ones. Usually, breaking genes won't produce new taxa. AIG and ICR admit to new species, genera, and families descending from common ancestors, and sometimes,they go a bit beyond that. That's a load of common descent.


I’m already subscribed.
Throughout this series, the subject of evolution will be made plain. Many of its teachings will be deconstructed and the underlying assumptions exposed. You will be left with a conclusive picture about the theory of evolution. Your thinking—and understanding—about the foundation of the world will be forever changed.

You have but one task as you read: Review the evidence with an open mind. Do not allow any existing bias to blind you to this crucial understanding. The implications are much greater than you probably realize.

Most scientists believe that evolution is the foundation for many disciplines of science. Biologists, geologists, archaeologists, biochemists, etc., would state that evolution is the starting point for further study.

Why is evolution cemented in the minds of many as fact, when it is nothing more than theory?

How did this occur?

Certain aspects of evolution may be confusing and difficult to understand. Do not be surprised! The rationale invented to support evolution is bewildering and complicated. It is tiresome and boring. Certain facts are conveniently left behind, and tedious scholarly language is used to stop most people from examining the subject in detail. Left frustrated, most assume evolution to be fact.

This series will demystify the subject. You will know if evolution is science fact or science fiction. Convoluted and illogical theories will be simplified in a way never before presented. While some sections are technical, the more detail given, the better you will be able to see through the theory’s “smoke and mirrors.” Clear and simple logic always destroys ill-conceived suppositions.

Once evolution is dismantled, you will be left with many questions—and serious implications.

Conflicting Opinions
Even a cursory review of this subject demonstrates that decades of scientific study have resulted in little more than assumption, disagreement and widespread confusion. Allow the late Colin Patterson, once the world’s foremost fossil expert, to summarize: “One morning I woke up and something had happened in the night, and it struck me that I had been working on this stuff [evolution] for twenty years and there was not one thing I knew about it.”

He addressed his concerns to both the geology staff at the Field Museum of Natural History and the Evolutionary Morphology Seminar at the University of Chicago, saying, “Can you tell me anything you know about evolution, any one thing…that is true?” Each time, he was met with weak explanations, hypotheses and theories.

The only salient comment came during the Evolutionary Morphology Seminar, in which one participant stated, “I do know one thing—it ought not to be taught in high school.”

This led Mr. Patterson to conclude, “It does seem that the level of knowledge about evolution is remarkably shallow. We know it ought not to be taught in high school, and that’s all we know about it.”

What are the facts about the theory of evolution? What do we actually know? What is the basis for its near universal acceptance?

You will be amazed at what the scientific evidence reveals!

Science is Logical
No matter the discipline, when one is presented with a vast swath of empirical data, sound logic must be used to interpret it. Right conclusions can only be reached when proper logic is employed. Faulty logic—often called logical fallacies—cause error, confusion and misinterpretation. Sometimes these fallacies are used by accident; other times the motives are more sinister.

In the latter case, fallacies are meant to cause an audience to misinterpret data and reach a wrong conclusion. By creating a tangled web of confusion, the data is impossible to navigate and correct conclusions are lost.

While it should not be so, science is riddled with logical fallacies. Nowhere is this more true than with the subject of evolution. The seven fallacies below are the most commonly used to explain evolution. As the evidence unfolds, try to recognize these fallacies in the evolutionist’s arguments.

  • Hasty Generalization: A small sample is used to reach a broad conclusion. Suppose your local car dealership only sells red cars; a hasty generalization is to conclude that all dealerships in your country only sell red cars.

  • Begging the Question: Often referred to as “reasoning in a circle,” or circular logic. An assumption is used to prove a conclusion; in turn, that conclusion is used to prove the original assumption.

  • Misuse of Authority: Pointing to a group of experts to validate a conclusion, even if those experts disagree with each other or with the conclusion. An example would be stating that dentists prefer a certain brand of toothpaste, but never actually polling them about their preference in the first place.

  • Appeal to the People: Using the general public as a basis for proving a hypothesis, instead of relying on relevant evidence. Stating, “Of course, everyone accepts that as fact,” would be an example.

  • Argument to Future: Stating that while a theory is not yet proven, it will be with further study and investigation.

  • Hypothesis Contrary to Fact: Repeating as new a theory or hypothesis already disproven. This is akin to asserting that the earth might be flat, when evidence already demonstrates otherwise.

  • Chronological Snobbery: When a theory is either refuted or proven by dating “evidence” as extremely old, making it either no longer available or impossible to verify.
One theme flows throughout all fallacies: They are false! Through dishonesty and lies, a proponent attempts to deceive. People would not be surprised if such a person was a snake oil salesman or a con artist. However, it is shocking how often scientists use such deception to promote the theory of evolution as irrefutable fact.
 
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The Barbarian

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Throughout this series, the subject of evolution will be made plain.

You seem to have a lot of misconceptions about it. For example, you don't seem to even know the four key points of Darwinian theory. What do you think they are?

Many of its teachings will be deconstructed and the underlying assumptions exposed.

Sorry, but the postmodernist idea that truth is whatever you make it out to be, doesn't play with me.

You will be left with a conclusive picture about the theory of evolution. Your thinking—and understanding—about the foundation of the world will be forever changed.

Shouldn't you first know what evolution and evolutionary theory are, before you tell us about it?

You have but one task as you read: Review the evidence with an open mind. Do not allow any existing bias to blind you to this crucial understanding. The implications are much greater than you probably realize.

So first tell us which of the four points of Darwinism you think are faulty, and your evidence for that.

Most scientists believe that evolution is the foundation for many disciplines of science. Biologists, geologists, archaeologists, biochemists, etc., would state that evolution is the starting point for further study.

You have it mostly backwards. Biochemistry, for example, supports evolutionary theory, not the other way around.

Why is evolution cemented in the minds of many as fact,

Because it's directly obseved. Think back to earlier posts. What is the scientific definition of "evolution."

when it is nothing more than theory?

That's an error laymen often make. To the unscientific, "theory" means something like "guess." But in reality, a theory in science is an idea or group of ideas that have been repeatedly confirmed by evidence. You appear to have confused "theory" with "hypothesis." Would you like to learn how they are related and how they are different? It's something people without much scientific training often get confused.

How did this occur?

Sloppy thinking, I suppose.
 
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The Barbarian

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Certain aspects of evolution may be confusing and difficult to understand.

Basically, it's mutation and natural selection. Pretty simple in its basic outline. Like all science, there's lots of complications, but they are accessible. You could learn them without too much work.

As you have learned, evolution is a fact. It's an observed phenomenon. Evolutionary theory is another issue. Some of it, like population genetics, is highly mathematical, but still accessible in basic outline. Would you like to learn about that?

But let's start at the beginning. Tell me what you think the four basic points of Darwinian theory are, and which you think are faulty. Then we can go on to a more detailed look at evolutionary theory.
 
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The Barbarian

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Barbarian observes:
Actually, all humans evolved from other pimates.

THIS IS WHAT IS CALLED AN ASSERTION BASED ON A PHILOSOPHICAL WORLDVIEW OF WANNABE APES

No, it's a conclusion based on evidence. BTW, "All caps" is considered to be shouting, and is rude. Would you like to learn why honest YE creationists like Dr. Kurt Wise considers the large number of transitional hominid fossils to be "very good evidence for macroevolutionary theory?"

... DONT INCLUDE ME IN THIS PERVERSION I AM A DECENDENT OF ADAM THE FIRST HUMAN CREATED BY GOD JUST LIKE IT SAYS IN THE BIBLE..

Actually, it says that Adam was the first human who had been given a living soul by God.

I KNOW OVAL-EARTHERS HATE THE BIBLE AND DECIDED TO WRITE THEIR OWN BIBLE..

YE creationists, far as I know, think the Earth is pretty much spherical. And they don't (most of them) hate the Bible; they just follow a modern revision of Genesis.
 
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The Barbarian

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LOL ANOTHER STATEMENT OF FAITH.. YOU ARE CONFUSING "IMAGINATION" WITH SCIENTIFIC EVIDENCE... IF YOU THINK I AM WRONG, PLEASE GO AHEAD AND POST SOME OF THIS "DATA" THAT DOCUMENT THAT YOU EVOVLED FROM "OTHER PRIMATES" AND WATCH WHAT I DO TO IT!! IF YOU THINK YOU ARE CRABBY NOW, JUST WAIT UNTIL I EXPOSE YOUR SO CALLED "DATA" FOR ALL TO SEE!

Sure. As your fellow YE creationist says, these are very good evidence for macroevolutionary theory. For example, we see Australopithecines and related genera as transitional between other apes and humans. Let's look at some of the transitional features:
Carrying-Angle-1024x593.png


As you see, Australopithecines are transitional between other apes and humans. The knock-kneed posture of Australopithecines and humans permits more efficient bipedal walking. And the wider pelvis allows the birth of babies with larger crania.

Would you like to learn more about this?

I DONT KNOW ANY OF THESE "HONEST YE CREATIONISTS" YOU SPEAK OF..

Yes. You seem to know as little about creationism as you know about science. I'm not trying to make you crabby; I'm trying to help you understand what all of this is about.
 
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Sure. As your fellow YE creationist says, these are very good evidence for macroevolutionary theory. For example, we see Australopithecines and related genera as transitional between other apes and humans. Let's look at some of the transitional features:
Q

As you see, Australopithecines are transitional between other apes and humans. The knock-kneed posture of Australopithecines and humans permits more efficient bipedal walking. And the wider pelvis allows the birth of babies with larger crania.

Would you like to learn more about this?



Yes. You seem to know as little about creationism as you know about science. I'm not trying to make you crabby; I'm trying to help you understand what all of this is about.


"As you see, Australopithecines are transitional between other apes and humans."

LOL SO BONES FROM AN EXTINCT APE TELL YOU THAT DO THEY? HAHAHA NO FAITH REQUIRED?


"Would you like to learn more about this?"

WOULD YOU? HERE IS AN HOUR VIDEO THAT DEVASTATES THE CRAZY INSANITY THAT MAN IS AN APE THAT EVOLVED FROM AN APE LIKE CREATURE.. *FOR OUR READERS*


BTW Analyses can NEVER demonstrate that ape-like creatures evolved into humans EVER!!. The point is the source of authority. Either God created as He said or man can make up his own story. In matters of origins, a person’s choice of worldview-based starting assumptions determines his conclusion. I happen to believe what God said about HIS creation.. not what Atheists and Oval-Earthers claim...

DO YOU REMEMBER WHAT SOMETHING CALLED THE "SCIENTIFIC METHOD" IS? DO YOU REMEMBER WHY IT WAS ESTABLISHED? I GUESS NOT...
 
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Barbarian observes:
Actually, all humans evolved from other pimates.



No, it's a conclusion based on evidence. BTW, "All caps" is considered to be shouting, and is rude. Would you like to learn why honest YE creationists like Dr. Kurt Wise considers the large number of transitional hominid fossils to be "very good evidence for macroevolutionary theory?"



Actually, it says that Adam was the first human who had been given a living soul by God.



YE creationists, far as I know, think the Earth is pretty much spherical. And they don't (most of them) hate the Bible; they just follow a modern revision of Genesis.

LOOKS LIKE YOU DONT KNOW WHAT THE TERM "OVAL-EARTHER" MEANS DO YOU?
 
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Barbarian observes:
Actually, all humans evolved from other pimates.



No, it's a conclusion based on evidence. BTW, "All caps" is considered to be shouting, and is rude. Would you like to learn why honest YE creationists like Dr. Kurt Wise considers the large number of transitional hominid fossils to be "very good evidence for macroevolutionary theory?"



Actually, it says that Adam was the first human who had been given a living soul by God.



YE creationists, far as I know, think the Earth is pretty much spherical. And they don't (most of them) hate the Bible; they just follow a modern revision of Genesis.


No, it's a conclusion based on evidence. BTW, "All caps" is considered to be shouting, and is rude.

I AM NEW HERE SO DONT KNOW HOW TO SEPERATE THE QUOTES. IF YOU WERE TO TYPE IN CAPS I WOULD TYPE IN... lower case.... DONT LET MY BIG BAD CAPITAL LETTERS SCARE YOU! BOO!

"they just follow a modern revision of Genesis."

WHERE CAN I PICK UP A COPY OF THE BIBLE WITH ALL OF THE "MODERN REVISIONS" PLEASE ANSWER MY QUESTION~!
 
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jJIM THINNSEN

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You seem to have a lot of misconceptions about it. For example, you don't seem to even know the four key points of Darwinian theory. What do you think they are?


"You seem to have a lot of misconceptions about it. For example, you don't seem to even know the four key points of Darwinian theory. What do you think they are?

I am also unaware of the names of the goblins in Harry Potters Science Fiction novel..

You see, The Fairytale of Evolutionism is a Science Fiction Novel about "Long Ago And Far Away"

It is a Fairytale invented by Atheists in a feeble attempt to try to explain away mans existence by purely naturalistic means and they have been able to get a lot of dummies to believe it..

It is a silly tale... It claims that a SINGLE microbial common ancestor (That somehow emerged from inorganic chemicals / dead matter) was able to evolve into bees beetles bears bats bass boars berries birds butterflies and ALL OTHER FLORA AND FAUNA ON PLANET EARTH...

The idiotic fairytale of Evolutionism tries to assert that over "3 BYA" an ORGANLESS microbe / bacteria / SCO / amoeba / protists (fill in the blanks) SLOWLY evolved into a Microbiologist with TEN interlocked interconnected interdependent VITAL organs and their support systems!!!

Can you (Or anyone else) provide a plausible evolutionary order for man's 10 VITAL organs? If we somehow evolved from a microbe WHICH VITAL organ evolved 1ST? Heart? Which VITAL organ evolved 2nd? Pancreas? Which VITAL organ evolved 3rd? Kidneys? Which VITAL organ evolved 4th? U / intestine? Which VITAL organ evolved 5th? Lungs? Which VITAL organ evolved 6th? L / Intestine? Which VITAL organ evolved 7th? Skin? Which VITAL organ evolved 8th? Liver? Which VITAL organ evolved 9th? Stomach? Which VITAL organ evolved LAST? The Brain? I have asked MANY scientists and evolutionary biologists to provide a plausible or even hypothetical Chronological ORDER for mans 10 VITAL organs that passes the comic book drawing laugh test... So far all I get is the same I will get from YOU.. a DODGE.... And do you know why? Because Evolutionism is a fairytale that cannot be explained away coherently.. AND... it NEVER HAPPENED.. We are IRREDUCIBLY COMPLEX.. God made us that way so people like you will have no excuse when you stand before him and explain why you decided to call him a liar



Sorry, but the postmodernist idea that truth is whatever you make it out to be, doesn't play with me.



Shouldn't you first know what evolution and evolutionary theory are, before you tell us about it?



So first tell us which of the four points of Darwinism you think are faulty, and your evidence for that.



You have it mostly backwards. Biochemistry, for example, supports evolutionary theory, not the other way around.



Because it's directly obseved. Think back to earlier posts. What is the scientific definition of "evolution."



That's an error laymen often make. To the unscientific, "theory" means something like "guess." But in reality, a theory in science is an idea or group of ideas that have been repeatedly confirmed by evidence. You appear to have confused "theory" with "hypothesis." Would you like to learn how they are related and how they are different? It's something people without much scientific training often get confused.



Sloppy thinking, I suppose.
 
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Sure. As your fellow YE creationist says, these are very good evidence for macroevolutionary theory. For example, we see Australopithecines and related genera as transitional between other apes and humans. Let's look at some of the transitional features:
Carrying-Angle-1024x593.png


As you see, Australopithecines are transitional between other apes and humans. The knock-kneed posture of Australopithecines and humans permits more efficient bipedal walking. And the wider pelvis allows the birth of babies with larger crania.

Would you like to learn more about this?



Yes. You seem to know as little about creationism as you know about science. I'm not trying to make you crabby; I'm trying to help you understand what all of this is about.

"You seem to have a lot of misconceptions about it. For example, you don't seem to even know the four key points of Darwinian theory. What do you think they are?"

I am also unaware of the names of the goblins in Harry Potter's Science Fiction novel..

You see, The Fairytale of Evolutionism is a Science Fiction Novel about "Long Ago And Far Away"

It is a Fairytale invented by Atheists in a feeble attempt to try to explain away man's existence by purely naturalistic means and they have been able to get a lot of dummies to believe it..

It is a silly tale... It claims that a SINGLE microbial common ancestor (That somehow emerged from inorganic chemicals / dead matter) was able to evolve into bees beetles bears bats bass boars berries birds butterflies and ALL OTHER FLORA AND FAUNA ON PLANET EARTH...

The idiotic fairytale of Evolutionism tries to assert that over "3 BYA" an ORGANLESS microbe / bacteria / SCO / amoeba / protists (fill in the blanks) SLOWLY evolved into a Microbiologist with TEN interlocked, interconnected, interdependent VITAL organs and their support systems!!!

Can you (Or anyone else) provide a plausible evolutionary order for man's 10 VITAL organs? If we somehow S L O W L Y evolved from a microbe like you claim. WHICH VITAL organ evolved 1ST? Heart? Which VITAL organ evolved 2nd? Pancreas? Which VITAL organ evolved 3rd? Kidneys? Which VITAL organ evolved 4th? U / intestine? Which VITAL organ evolved 5th? Lungs? Which VITAL organ evolved 6th? L / Intestine? Which VITAL organ evolved 7th? Skin? Which VITAL organ evolved 8th? Liver? Which VITAL organ evolved 9th? Stomach? Which VITAL organ evolved LAST? The Brain? I have asked MANY scientists and evolutionary biologists to provide a plausible or even hypothetical Chronological ORDER for mans 10 VITAL organs that passes the comic book drawing laugh test... So far all I get is the same answer I will get from YOU.. a DODGE.... And do you know why? Because Evolutionism is a fairytale that cannot be explained away coherently.. AND... it NEVER HAPPENED because man is IRREDUCIBLY COMPLEX.. God made us that way so people like you will have no excuse when you stand before him and explain why you decided to call him a liar. .

Amazing how the Bible predicted foolish people 2000 years ago! With stunning accuracy!

No doubt this will be one of the verses that will be REMOVED when the wannabe apes write their "modern revision" of Gods holy word...LOL

"3 For the time will come when people will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. 4 They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths."

2 Timothy 4:3-5
 
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The Barbarian

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You seem to have a lot of misconceptions about it. For example, you don't seem to even know the four key points of Darwinian theory. What do you think they are?

I am also unaware of the names of the goblins in Harry Potter's Science Fiction novel..

So you don't have a clue about it, and yet you propose to teach us about it. How... ambitious.

It is a Fairytale invented by Atheists

Actually...
"There is grandeur in this view of life, with its several powers, having been originally breathed by the Creator into a few forms or into one; and that, whilst this planet has gone cycling on according to the fixed law of gravity, from so simple a beginning endless forms most beautiful and most wonderful have been, and are being evolved."
Charles Darwin, last sentence of On the Origin of Species, 1872.

See what not knowing what you're talking about can do to you? Why not go back, learn a little about the subject and then come on back and talk to us? Could save you further embarrassment. "Atheists", unless it's the first word in a sentence, isn't capitalized, BTW.

Can you (Or anyone else) provide a plausible evolutionary order for man's 10 VITAL organs?

What makes you think there has to be an order? And why do you think there are only ten? You've been misled again. But we can indeed infer the order in which they appear from genetic, fossil, and embryological evidence as well as comparative anatomy.

WHICH VITAL organ evolved 1ST?

Things don't work like that. You don't have a sponge sitting around and suddenly form a heart or a brain. It's way more interesting than that. Pick an organ and we'll show you the evidence.

AND... it NEVER HAPPENED because man is IRREDUCIBLY COMPLEX..

You don't know that irreducibly complexity evolves? We have directly observed examples. Would you like to learn about some of them?

God made us that way so people like you will have no excuse when you stand before him and explain why you decided to call him a liar. .

You aren't God, and no one here is calling you a liar. You've been badly misled about a large number of things. For starters, you don't speak for God. And God doesn't care about your opinion of evolution; that's not how you're going to be judged. Unless you make an idol of your new doctrine of YE creationism, it makes no difference at all. Creationists can be saved just like any other Christian.

Just remember; you aren't God, and you don't speak for Him. That can be a problem for your salvation.




 
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You seem to have a lot of misconceptions about it. For example, you don't seem to even know the four key points of Darwinian theory. What do you think they are?

"Four key points" LOL There ARE NO "Key Points" to the fairytale!!.. Lots of vague and meaningless terms and phrases like these.. decent with modification / changes in allele frequencies / random mutations / survival of the fittest / micro evolution plus deep time is Macroevolution / speciation is macroevolution / natural selection / Finches beaks are examples of evolution / And on and on the Insanity goes... But it is clear why some people force themselves to believe such Garbage..

"For myself, as, no doubt, for most of my contemporaries, the philosophy of meaninglessness was essentially an instrument of liberation. The liberation we desired was simultaneously liberation from a certain political and economic system and liberation from a certain system of morality. We objected to the morality because it interfered with our sexual freedom."

(Aldous Huxley, Ends and Means)

"I suppose the reason we leaped at the origin of species was because the idea of God interfered with our sexual mores."

(Sir Julian Huxley, President of the United Nation's Educational, Scientific, Cultural Organization (UNESCO).)

"Evolution is unproved and improvable, we believe it because the only alternative is special creation, which is unthinkable."

(Sir Arthur Keith, a militant anti-Christian physical anthropologist)



"So you don't have a clue about it, and yet you propose to teach us about it. How... ambitious."

LOL.. I have no clue about the fairytale of Evolutionism? Hahaha. I suppose that NONE OF THESE scientists "have a clue" either (Using your logic!!) Hahaha.

Evolution is a fairy tale for grown-ups."

(Dr. Duane Gish, Biochemist.)

"Evolution is a fairy tale for adults."

(Dr. Paul LeMoine, one of the most prestigious scientists in the world)

"Evolution is a fairy tale for grown-ups. This theory has helped nothing in the progress of science. It is useless."

(Prof. Louis Bounoure, Director of Research, National Center of Scientific Research.)

"The evolution theory is purely the product of the imagination."

(Dr. Ambrose Flemming, Pres. Philosophical Society of Great Britain)

"The Darwinian theory of descent has not a single fact to confirm it in the realm of nature. It is not the result of scientific research but purely the product of the imagination."

(Albert Fleishman, professor of zoology & comparative anatomy at Erlangen University)

"We have had enough of the Darwinian fallacy. It is time we cry, "The emperor has no clothes."

(Dr. Hsu, geologist at the Geological Institute in Zurich.)

"The great cosmologic myth of the twentieth century."

(Dr. Michael Denton, molecular biochemist, Evolution: A Theory in Crisis.)

"9/10 of the talk of evolution is sheer nonsense not founded on observation and wholly unsupported by fact. This Museum is full of proof of the utter falsity of their view."

(Dr. Ethredge, British Museum of Science.)

"We have now the remarkable spectacle that just when many scientific men are agreed that there is no part of the Darwinian system that is of any great influence, and that, as a whole, the theory is not only unproved, but impossible, the ignorant, half-educated masses have acquired the idea that it is to be accepted as a fundamental fact."

(Dr. Thomas Dwight, famed professor at Harvard University)

"I believe that one day the Darwinian myth will be ranked the greatest deceit in the history of science. When this happens, many people will pose the question, "How did this ever happen?"

(Dr. Sorren Luthrip, Swedish Embryologist)

"The more one studies paleontology, the more certain one becomes that evolution is based upon faith alone; exactly the same sort of faith which is necessary to have when one encounters the great mysteries of religion....The only alternative is the doctrine of special creation, which may be true, but irrational."

(Dr. Louis T. More, professor of paleontology at Princeton University)

"Evolution is faith, a religion."

(Dr. Louist T. More, professor of paleontology at Princeton University)

"Darwin's theory of evolution is the last of the great nineteenth-century mystery religions. And as we speak it is now following Freudians and Marxism into the Nether regions, and I'm quite sure that Freud, Marx and Darwin are commiserating one with the other in the dark dungeon where discarded gods gather."

(Dr. David Berlinski)

"In fact, evolution became in a sense a scientific religion; almost all scientists have accepted it and many are prepared to "bend" their observations to fit in with it."

(H.S. Lipson, Physicist Looks at Evolution, Physics Bulletin 31 (1980), p. 138)

"A time honored scientific tenet of faith."

(Professor David Allbrook)

"Darwinism has become our culture's official creation myth, protected by a priesthood as dogmatic as any religious curia."

(Nancy Pearcey, "Creation Mythology,"pg. 23)

"When students of other sciences ask us what is now currently believed about the origin of species, we have no clear answer to give. Faith has given way to agnosticism. Meanwhile, though our faith in evolution stands unshaken we have no acceptable account of the origin of species."

(Dr. William Bateson, great geneticist of Cambridge)

"Chance renders evolution impossible."

(Dr. James Coppedge)

"It (evolution) is sustained largely by a propaganda campaign that relies on all the usual tricks of rhetorical persuasion: hidden assumptions, question-begging statements of what is at issue, terms that are vaguely defined and change their meaning in midargument, attacks of straw men, selective citation of evidence, and so on. The theory is also protected by its cultural importance. It is the officially sanctioned creation story to modern society, and publicly funded educational authorities spare no effort to persuade people to believe it."

(Professor Phillip Johnson, "Objections Sustained: Subversive Essays on Evolution, Law and Culture," pg. 9)

"Therefore, a grotesque account of a period some thousands of years ago is taken seriously though it be built by piling special assumptions on special assumptions, ad hoc hypothesis [invented for a purpose] on ad hoc hypothesis, and tearing apart the fabric of science whenever it appears convenient. The result is a fantasia which is neither history nor science."

(Dr. James Conant [chemist and former president of Harvard University], quoted in Origins Research, Vol. 5, No. 2, 1982, p. 2.)

"George Bernard Shaw wisecracked once that Darwin had the luck to please everybody who had an axe to grind. Well, I also have an axe to grind, but I am not pleased. We have suffered through two world wars and are threatened by an Armageddon. We have had enough of the Darwinian fallacy.

(Dr. Kenneth Hsu, "Reply," Geology, 15 (1987), p. 177)

"Unfortunately for Darwin's future reputation, his life was spent on the problem of evolution which is deductive by nature...It is absurd to expect that many facts will not always be irreconcilable with any theory of evolution and, today, every one of his theories is contradicted by facts."

(Dr. P.T. Mora, The Dogma of Evolution, p. 194)

"Ultimately the Darwinian theory of evolution is no more nor less than the great cosmogenic myth of the twentieth century...The origin of life and of new beings on earth is still largely as enigmatic as when Darwin set sail on the [ship] Beagle."

(Dr. Michael Denton, molecular biochemist, Evolution: A Theory in Crisis (1986), p. 358



 
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The Barbarian

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You seem to have a lot of misconceptions about it. For example, you don't seem to even know the four key points of Darwinian theory. What do you think they are?

"Four key points" LOL There ARE NO "Key Points" to the fairytale!!.

There are four key points to Darwinian theory, and you have no idea what they are. But you propose to tell us about it. Shouldn't you at least know something about it, if you propose to teach us about it?

(quote-mining attempt fails)
"Ultimately the Darwinian theory of evolution is no more nor less than the great cosmogenic myth of the twentieth century...The origin of life and of new beings on earth is still largely as enigmatic as when Darwin set sail on the [ship] Beagle."

(Dr. Michael Denton, molecular biochemist, Evolution: A Theory in Crisis (1986), p. 358

Well, let's see what Michael Denton says more recently...


t is important to emphasize at the outset that the argument presented here is entirely consistent with the basic naturalistic assumption of modern science--that the cosmos is a seamless unity which can be comprehended in its entirety by human reason and in which all phenomena, including life and evolution and the origin of man, are ultimately explicable in terms of natural processes. This is an assumption which is entirely opposed to that of the so-called "special creationist school." According to special creationism, living organisms are not natural forms, whose origin and design were built into the laws of nature from the beginning, but rather contingent forms analogous in essence to human artifacts, the result of a series of supernatural acts, involving God's direct intervention in the course of nature, each of which involved the suspension of natural law. Contrary to the creationist position, the whole argument presented here is critically dependent on the presumption of the unbroken continuity of the organic world--that is, on the reality of organic evolution and on the presumption that all living organisms on earth are natural forms in the profoundest sense of the word, no less natural than salt crystals, atoms, waterfalls, or galaxies.

In large measure, therefore, the teleological argument presented here and the special creationist worldview are mutually exclusive accounts of the world. In the last analysis, evidence for one is evidence against the other. Put simply, the more convincing is the evidence for believing that the world is prefabricated to the end of life, that the design is built into the laws of nature, the less credible becomes the special creationist worldview.

(Dr. Michael Denton, molecular biochemist, Nature's Destiny (1998) pp p. xvii-xviii) (emphasis mine)

Live by quote-mining, die by quote-mining.
 
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Sure. As your fellow YE creationist says, these are very good evidence for macroevolutionary theory. For example, we see Australopithecines and related genera as transitional between other apes and humans. Let's look at some of the transitional features:
Carrying-Angle-1024x593.png


As you see, Australopithecines are transitional between other apes and humans. The knock-kneed posture of Australopithecines and humans permits more efficient bipedal walking. And the wider pelvis allows the birth of babies with larger crania.


LOL SO BONES FROM AN EXTINCT APE TELL YOU THAT DO THEY?

Yep. As you now realize, Australopithecines are transitional between other apes and humans. As your fellow YE creationist, Dr. Kurt Wise admits, this is "very good evidence for macroevolutionary theory."
 
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Sure. As your fellow YE creationist says, these are very good evidence for macroevolutionary theory. For example, we see Australopithecines and related genera as transitional between other apes and humans. Let's look at some of the transitional features:

"Australopithecines are transitional between other apes and humans" LOL..

Which is of course absolute nonsensical garbage on steroids... If Kurt Wise believes such a thing send him my way so I can straighten him out just like I did with Todd Wood.. I love exposing Satans lie of Evolutionism and wolves who promote it..

Remember the Scientific Method? It is the BANE of such planet of the Apes fiction...

Here is a good piece for our readers who havent been brainwashed and indoctrinated beyond return.

Evolutionism is NOT Science!!



There are several fundamental characteristics that identify a field of study as being "scientific".

Genuine science is objective and invites scrutiny and investigation. It does not ridicule the critics of its conclusions, but instead silences their criticisms by setting forth the evidence from which those conclusions are drawn.

Genuine science seeks the truth that explains the observed evidence. It does not prejudice the investigation by ruling out, from the start, hypotheses that may very well provide the best explanation for the observed evidence.

Genuine science rejects any hypothesis that consistently fails to fit observed scientific evidence. It does not persistently assume that the fault lies in the evidence rather than in the hypothesis itself.

On all three counts, the commonly-accepted "Theory of Evolution" fails the test of being scientific. With the passing years, proponents of this failed theory are behaving more and more like religious dogmatists in their unwillingness to submit the foundations of their theory to open inquiry and discussion. Instead, they heap scorn and ridicule on their critics, insisting that anyone who has the audacity to question the truth of their sacred theory must be either stupid, Ignorant or worse!

Here is ANOTHER good website for our readers..
I know this will never be a debate as Evolutionists REFUSE to debate Creationists but merely troll with their preplanned talking points and bumper stickers leading to nowhere while AVOIDING any real engagement of the facts... That is why I am not here for any other reason then to expose you..

Debunking Evolution - Scientific evidence against evolution - Clash between theory and reality



Carrying-Angle-1024x593.png


As you see, Australopithecines are transitional between other apes and humans. The knock-kneed posture of Australopithecines and humans permits more efficient bipedal walking. And the wider pelvis allows the birth of babies with larger crania.




Yep. As you now realize, Australopithecines are transitional between other apes and humans. As you fellow YE creationist, Dr. Kurt Wise admits, this is "very good evidence for macroevolutionary theory."
 
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