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Why do you feel a NEED for theistic evolution?

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Job 33:6

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"But actually his books go into a lot more detail even beyond anatomy,"

So you want Creationists to believe that MUTATIONS allowed for for an organless Microbe to S L O W L Y evolve into a Microbiologist with 10 interlocked, interdependent, interconnected VITAL organs AND their support systems all working perfectly together in tandem and harmony or we DIE when NO ONE can even provide a plausible chronological evolutionary order for man's (Or ANY mammal's) VITAL organs??

Which VITAL organ evolved FIRST? Liver?
Which VITAL organ evolved SECOND? Lower Intestine?
Which VITAL organ evolved THIRD? Stomach?
Which VITAL organ evolved FOURTH? Pancreas?
Which VITAL organ evolved FIFTH? Lungs?
Which VITAL organ evolved SIXTH? Kidneys?
Which VITAL organ evolved SEVENTH? Upper intestine?
Which VITAL organ evolved EIGHTH? Brain?
Which VITAL organ evolved NINTH? Heart?
Which VITAL organ evolved LAST? Skin?

You see, We are IRREDUCIBLY COMPLEX!!!

If you want to continue to believe in Evolutionism due to an emotional attachment because its IMPLICATIONS happen to align with your philosophical worldview, You are doing the right thing by avoiding me like the plague.. I am an Evolutionist's worst nightmare.. However, if you want to know the truth, even if that truth isn't what your itching ears want to hear, then respond with answers instead of bumper stickers and talking points.. Either way, I will continue to expose the myth of Evolutionism for our readers as the truth will set you free...

The Bible predicted all of this 2000 years ago with stunning accuracy!!

"For the time will come when people will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths."

2 Timothy 4:3-4

Let me know when you're actually willing to respond to what is said to you:

Why do you feel a NEED for theistic evolution?


You keep changing the subject and you aren't responding to my words. Literally in not a single one of these, have you actually given a technical response. You just keep coming up with new topics and simply abandoning each old topic whenever I respond to them, in favor of further starting yet another new topic.

Or you just respond when you aren't even being spoken to.

You haven't responded to post #358, #352, #346, #345, #313, #269, #268, #266 etc.
 
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Job 33:6

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""As noted above, the feasible explanation is that fish had lungs in some fashion,

It isn't feasible to ANYONE except the religious zealots of Evolutionism..." -Jjim Thinnsen


Tiktaalik had spiracles at the base of it's head and an extended robust rig cage. It's head was also flat like a crocodile, much like air breathing amphibians of the late devonian that would stick their heads above the surface of the water, rather than conical lobe finned fish of that time.

Tiktaalik also had an unfused skull, meaning that it could turn its head independently from it's body (it had a neck), much like amphibians but not fish (fish don't have necks). Tiktaalik also had robust pectoral girdles and rotating wrist bones (lifting the body, turning it's wrists independently from it's body). Also more like amphibians and less like fish.

Morphologically and anatomically, tiktaalik is without question, very tetrapod-like in nature. And all evidence suggests that it had lungs (though likely primitive) and breathed air. But of course it was also part fish with scales and fin rays (fish tend to have scales and rays, not amphibians).

This is all based on anatomy and morphology.
 
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jJIM THINNSEN

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""As noted above, the feasible explanation is that fish had lungs in some fashion,

It isn't feasible to ANYONE except the religious zealots of Evolutionism..." -Jjim Thinnsen


Tiktaalik had spiracles at the base of it's head and an extended robust rig cage. It's head was also flat like a crocodile, much like air breathing amphibians of the late devonian that would stick their heads above the surface of the water, rather than conical lobe finned fish of that time.

Tiktaalik also had an unfused skull, meaning that it could turn its head independently from it's body (it had a neck), much like amphibians but not fish (fish don't have necks). Tiktaalik also had robust pectoral girdles and rotating wrist bones (lifting the body, turning it's wrists independently from it's body). Also more like amphibians and less like fish.

Morphologically and anatomically, tiktaalik is without question, very tetrapod-like in nature. And all evidence suggests that it had lungs (though likely primitive) and breathed air. But of course it was also part fish with scales and fin rays (fish tend to have scales and rays, not amphibians).

This is all based on anatomy and morphology.


"Tiktaalik also had robust pectoral girdles and rotating wrist bones"

Neil Shubin wrote the book "Your Inner fish" It requires Mental Illness to write such filth. How sick is it to convince oneself that they are nothing more than an evolved fish.....

IT IS A GOOD THING THAT SHUBIN HAS BEEN EXPOSED AS A FRAUD!!

Shubin presents the discredited embryonic “recapitulation theory”—the notion that embryos replay their evolutionary history—as if it were true.!!!

ALSO..
Your Inner Fish also promotes the myth of embryonic recapitulation by showing us “Molly’s gill.” Molly is a woman with a small pit in front of her ear, an inconsequential embryologic remnant that Shubin identifies as “a leftover from an ancient gill” saying, “We’re all fish,” and “Sometimes things go wrong, and when they do your inner fish can come out.”

Vertebrate embryos have several swellings along the neck, little mounds of cells that are multiplying and differentiating into the structures blueprinted for them in the organism’s DNA. Based on superficial appearance and evolutionary thinking, they were once called things like gill slits, gill pouches, gill arches, or branchial arches. Only in fish do these arches differentiate into components of gills. Many embryology textbooks have abandoned this deceptive terminology in favor of pharyngeal arches, for mammalian embryos never at any time develop any sort of gill. Pharyngeal arches in human embryos become parts of the jaw, face, ear, middle ear bones, and voice box. We can speak, hear, chew, and smile because of complex array of structures these pharyngeal arches form. Nevertheless, Shubin calls them “gill arches” and gives Molly an imaginative evolutionary explanation rather than an embryologic one. Molly's pre-auricular pit is a tiny remnant that was left over when parts of the first and second pharyngeal arches fused to form her ear,"

BUT NEITHER MOLLY NOR HER "ANCESTORS" EVER HAD A GILL!!!!. ONLY IN SHUBIN'S IMAGINATION! (AND YOURS..)

SHUBIN WRITES..

"Flaws in the human body, like our susceptibility to hernias, remind us that we’re all adapted from ancient ancestors; we are, every one of us, just a jury-rigged fish."

FIRST, THAT IS FALSE!! WE ARE FEARFULLY AND WONDERFULLY MADE AT THE HANDS OF OUR MASTER DESIGNER!!

SECOND.. EVEN IF IT WERE TRUE (IT ISNT).. IS "BAD" DESIGN MEAN EVIDENCE OF NO DESIGNER? HOW "SCIENTIFIC" IS THAT???

So you are wishing to promote the idea that man is just a "Jury-Rigged Fish? LOL.. WWJD? HAHAH

TIKTAALIK HAS BEEN LONG DEBUNKED AS A FRAUD YEARS AGO! YOU NEVER GOT THE MEMO??

Tiktaalik Blown "Out of the Water" by Earlier Tetrapod Fossil Footprints | Evolution News

Evolutionary Biologists Are Unaware of Their Own Arguments: Reappraising Nature's Prized "Gem," Tiktaalik (Updated) | Evolution News


"As the creationists claim, belief in modern evolution makes atheists of people. One can have a religious view that is compatible with evolution only if the religious view is indistinguishable from atheism." (Dr. Will Provine Cornell University)
 
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jJIM THINNSEN

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Let me know when you're actually willing to respond to what is said to you:

Why do you feel a NEED for theistic evolution?


You keep changing the subject and you aren't responding to my words. Literally in not a single one of these, have you actually given a technical response. You just keep coming up with new topics and simply abandoning each old topic whenever I respond to them, in favor of further starting yet another new topic.

Or you just respond when you aren't even being spoken to.

You haven't responded to post #358, #352, #346, #345, #313, #269, #268, #266 etc.

"You haven't responded to post #358, #352, #346, #345, #313, #269, #268, #266 etc."

AND YOU HAVENT RESPONDED TO ALL OF THE EVIDENCE FOR YOUNG EARTH THAT I POSTED #1 #2 #3 #4 #5 #6 #7 #8 #9 #10 #11 #12 #13 #14 #15 #16 #17 #18 #19 #20 #21 #22 #23 #24 #25 #26 #27 #28 #29 #30 #31 #32 #33 #34 #35 #36 #37 #37 #39 #40 #41 #42 #43 #44 #45 #46 #47 #48 #49 #50 #51 #52 #53 #54 #55 #56 #57 #58 #59 #60 #61 #62 #63 #64 #65 #66 #67 #68 #69 #70 #71 #72 #73 #74 #75 #76 #77 #78 #79 #80 #81 #82 #83 #94 #85 #86 #87 #88 #89 #90 #91 #92 #93 #94 #95 #96 #97 GET THE IDEA?

Here is another good reading.. Not for you ( As we know you wont read it) but for the others as I like to expose the religion of Evolutionism!!

Evolution Is Religion -- Not Science
In no way does the idea of particles-to-people evolution meet the long-accepted criteria of a scientific theory. There are no such evolutionary transitions that have ever been observed in the fossil record of the past; and the universal law of entropy seems to make it impossible on any significant scale.

Evolutionists claim that evolution is a scientific fact, but they almost always lose scientific debates with creationist scientists. Accordingly, most evolutionists now decline opportunities for scientific debates, preferring instead to make unilateral attacks on creationists.

Scientists should refuse formal debates because they do more harm than good, but scientists still need to counter the creationist message.
The question is, just why do they need to counter the creationist message? Why are they so adamantly committed to anti-creationism?

The fact is that evolutionists believe in evolution because they want to. It is their desire at all costs to explain the origin of everything without a Creator. Evolutionism is thus intrinsically an atheistic religion. Some may prefer to call it humanism, and "new age" evolutionists place it in the context of some form of pantheism, but they all amount to the same thing. Whether atheism or humanism (or even pantheism), the purpose is to eliminate a personal God from any active role in the origin of the universe and all its components, including man.

The core of the humanistic philosophy is naturalism -- the proposition that the natural world proceeds according to its own internal dynamics, without divine or supernatural control or guidance, and that we human beings are creations of that process. It is instructive to recall that the philosophers of the early humanistic movement debated as to which term more adequately described their position: humanism or naturalism. The two concepts are complementary and inseparable.21
Since both naturalism and humanism exclude God from science or any other active function in the creation or maintenance of life and the universe in general, it is very obvious that their position is nothing but atheism. And atheism, no less than theism, is a religion! Even doctrinaire-atheistic evolutionist Richard Dawkins admits that atheism cannot be proved to be true.

Of course we can't prove that there isn't a God.
Therefore, they must believe it, and that makes it a religion.

The atheistic nature of evolution is not only admitted, but insisted upon by most of the leaders of evolutionary thought. Ernst Mayr, for example, says that:

"Darwinism rejects all supernatural phenomena and causations."

A professor in the Department of Biology at Kansas State University says:

"Even if all the data point to an intelligent designer, such a hypothesis is excluded from science because it is not naturalistic."

It is well known by almost everyone in the scientific world today that such influential evolutionists as Stephen Jay Gould and Edward Wilson of Harvard, Richard Dawkins of England, William Provine of Cornell, and numerous other evolutionary spokesmen are dogmatic atheists. Eminent scientific philosopher and ardent Darwinian atheist Michael Ruse has even acknowledged that evolution is their religion!

"Evolution is promoted by its practitioners as more than mere science. Evolution is promulgated as an ideology, a secular religion -- a full-fledged alternative to Christianity, with meaning and morality . . . . Evolution is a religion. This was true of evolution in the beginning, and it is true of evolution still today."
Another way of saying "religion" is "worldview," the whole of reality. The evolutionary worldview applies not only to the evolution of life, but even to that of the entire universe. In the realm of cosmic evolution, our naturalistic scientists depart even further from experimental science than life scientists do, manufacturing a variety of evolutionary cosmologies from esoteric mathematics and metaphysical speculation. Socialist Jeremy Rifkin has commented on this remarkable game.

Cosmologies are made up of small snippets of physical reality that have been remodeled by society into vast cosmic deceptions.
They must believe in evolution, therefore, in spite of all the evidence, not because of it. And speaking of deceptions, note the following remarkable statement.

"We take the side of science in spite of the patent absurdity of some of its constructs, . . . in spite of the tolerance of the scientific community for unsubstantiated commitment to materialism. . . . we are forced by our a priori adherence to material causes to create an apparatus of investigation and set of concepts that produce material explanations, no matter how counterintuitive, no matter how mystifying to the uninitiated. Moreover, that materialism is absolute, for we cannot allow a Divine Foot in the door."
The author of this frank statement is Richard Lewontin of Harvard. Since evolution is not a laboratory science, there is no way to test its validity, so all sorts of justso stories are contrived to adorn the textbooks. But that doesn't make them true! An evolutionist reviewing a recent book by another (but more critical) evolutionist, says:

"We cannot identify ancestors or "missing links," and we cannot devise testable theories to explain how particular episodes of evolution came about. Gee is adamant that all the popular stories about how the first amphibians conquered the dry land, how the birds developed wings and feathers for flying, how the dinosaurs went extinct, and how humans evolved from apes are just products of our imagination, driven by prejudices and preconceptions."

A fascinatingly honest admission by a physicist indicates the passionate commitment of establishment scientists to naturalism. Speaking of the trust students naturally place in their highly educated college professors, he says:

"And I use that trust to effectively brainwash them. . . . our teaching methods are primarily those of propaganda. We appeal -- without demonstration -- to evidence that supports our position. We only introduce arguments and evidence that supports the currently accepted theories and omit or gloss over any evidence to the contrary."

Creationist students in scientific courses taught by evolutionist professors can testify to the frustrating reality of that statement. Evolution is, indeed, the pseudoscientific basis of religious atheism, as Ruse pointed out. Will Provine at Cornell University is another scientist who frankly acknowledges this.

"As the creationists claim, belief in modern evolution makes atheists of people. One can have a religious view that is compatible with evolution only if the religious view is indistinguishable from atheism."

Once again, we emphasize that evolution is not science, evolutionists' tirades notwithstanding. It is a philosophical worldview, nothing more.

(Evolution) must, they feel, explain everything. . . . A theory that explains everything might just as well be discarded since it has no real explanatory value. Of course, the other thing about evolution is that anything can be said because very little can be disproved. Experimental evidence is minimal.
Even that statement is too generous. Actual experimental evidence demonstrating true evolution (that is, macroevolution) is not "minimal." It is nonexistent!

The concept of evolution as a form of religion is not new. Some form of evolution has been the pseudo-rationale behind every anti-creationist religion since the very beginning of history. This includes all the ancient ethnic religions, as well as such modern world religions as Buddhism, Hinduism, and others, as well as the "liberal" movements in even the creationist religions (Christianity, Judaism, Islam).

As far as the twentieth century is concerned, the leading evolutionist is generally considered to be Sir Julian Huxley, primary architect of modern neo-Darwinism. Huxley called evolution a "religion without revelation" and wrote a book with that title (2nd edition, 1957). In a later book, he said:

Evolution . . . is the most powerful and the most comprehensive idea that has ever arisen on earth.
Later in the book he argued passionately that we must change "our pattern of religious thought from a God-centered to an evolution-centered pattern." Then he went on to say that: "The God hypothesis . . . is becoming an intellectual and moral burden on our thought." Therefore, he concluded that "we must construct something to take its place."

That something, of course, is the religion of evolutionary humanism, and that is what the leaders of evolutionary humanism are trying to do today.

In closing this survey of the scientific case against evolution (and, therefore, for creation), the reader is reminded again that all quotations in the article are from doctrinaire evolutionists. No Bible references are included, and no statements by creationists. The evolutionists themselves, to all intents and purposes, have shown that evolutionism is not science, but religious faith in atheism.
 
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Job 33:6

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"Tiktaalik also had robust pectoral girdles and rotating wrist bones"

Neil Shubin wrote the book "Your Inner fish" It requires Mental Illness to write such filth. How sick is it to convince oneself that they are nothing more than an evolved fish.....

IT IS A GOOD THING THAT SHUBIN HAS BEEN EXPOSED AS A FRAUD!!

Shubin presents the discredited embryonic “recapitulation theory”—the notion that embryos replay their evolutionary history—as if it were true.!!!

ALSO..
Your Inner Fish also promotes the myth of embryonic recapitulation by showing us “Molly’s gill.” Molly is a woman with a small pit in front of her ear, an inconsequential embryologic remnant that Shubin identifies as “a leftover from an ancient gill” saying, “We’re all fish,” and “Sometimes things go wrong, and when they do your inner fish can come out.”

Vertebrate embryos have several swellings along the neck, little mounds of cells that are multiplying and differentiating into the structures blueprinted for them in the organism’s DNA. Based on superficial appearance and evolutionary thinking, they were once called things like gill slits, gill pouches, gill arches, or branchial arches. Only in fish do these arches differentiate into components of gills. Many embryology textbooks have abandoned this deceptive terminology in favor of pharyngeal arches, for mammalian embryos never at any time develop any sort of gill. Pharyngeal arches in human embryos become parts of the jaw, face, ear, middle ear bones, and voice box. We can speak, hear, chew, and smile because of complex array of structures these pharyngeal arches form. Nevertheless, Shubin calls them “gill arches” and gives Molly an imaginative evolutionary explanation rather than an embryologic one. Molly's pre-auricular pit is a tiny remnant that was left over when parts of the first and second pharyngeal arches fused to form her ear,"

BUT NEITHER MOLLY NOR HER "ANCESTORS" EVER HAD A GILL!!!!. ONLY IN SHUBIN'S IMAGINATION! (AND YOURS..)

SHUBIN WRITES..

"Flaws in the human body, like our susceptibility to hernias, remind us that we’re all adapted from ancient ancestors; we are, every one of us, just a jury-rigged fish."

FIRST, THAT IS FALSE!! WE ARE FEARFULLY AND WONDERFULLY MADE AT THE HANDS OF OUR MASTER DESIGNER!!

SECOND.. EVEN IF IT WERE TRUE (IT ISNT).. IS "BAD" DESIGN MEAN EVIDENCE OF NO DESIGNER? HOW "SCIENTIFIC" IS THAT???

So you are wishing to promote the idea that man is just a "Jury-Rigged Fish? LOL.. WWJD? HAHAH

TIKTAALIK HAS BEEN LONG DEBUNKED AS A FRAUD YEARS AGO! YOU NEVER GOT THE MEMO??

Tiktaalik Blown "Out of the Water" by Earlier Tetrapod Fossil Footprints | Evolution News

Evolutionary Biologists Are Unaware of Their Own Arguments: Reappraising Nature's Prized "Gem," Tiktaalik (Updated) | Evolution News


"As the creationists claim, belief in modern evolution makes atheists of people. One can have a religious view that is compatible with evolution only if the religious view is indistinguishable from atheism." (Dr. Will Provine Cornell University)

None of the above responds to my actual words. You're just kind of rambling about other topics still.

And no, Neil Shubin does not believe in "recapitulation theory". He actually is very open in discussing it's flaws.

Can you admit that you have lied about what he says in his books? Perhaps you have never read his books and therefore do not actually know what he talks about.

You mentioned an article about alleged tetrapod tracks that are older than tiktaalik. But actually, if you are familiar with ongoing research on tetrapods, you would know that such tracks are contested and actually more recently have been suggested to be fish feeding traces (fossils made by prehistoric fishes digging their mouths into soil).

https://www.researchgate.net/public...itical_Review_of_Devonian_Tetrapod_Footprints

But even if hypothetically there were tetrapod tracks temporally prior to tiktaalik, such alleged traces would actually still fit in with predictions of the theory of evolution in that the traces would still both pre date amphibian dominance of the late devonian, and post date fish dominance of the Cambrian, ordovician and silurian.

But again, none of this addresses tiktaaliks morphological hybrid features, nor does your response address how tiktaaliks temporal and geospatial locality was predicted via the theory of evolution.

You have (though in a less obvious fashion) changed the topic yet again.
 
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Job 33:6

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"AND YOU HAVENT RESPONDED TO ALL OF THE EVIDENCE FOR YOUNG EARTH THAT I POSTED #1 #2 #3 #4 #5 #6 #7 #8 #9 #10 #11 #12 #13 #14 #15 #16 #17 #18 #19 #20 #21 #22 #23 #24 #25 #26 #27 #28 #29 #30 #31 #32 #33 #34 #35 #36 #37 #37 #39 #40 #41 #42 #43 #44 #45 #46 #47 #48 #49 #50 #51 #52 #53 #54 #55 #56 #57 #58 #59 #60 #61 #62 #63 #64 #65 #66 #67 #68 #69 #70 #71 #72 #73 #74 #75 #76 #77 #78 #79 #80 #81 #82 #83 #94 #85 #86 #87 #88 #89 #90 #91 #92 #93 #94 #95 #96 #97 GET THE IDEA?"-Jjim Thinnsen

See post #358 for a refutation of numbers 1 through 4. I'll await your response.

And I asked you to pick your top 5, as nobody has time to go through all of them. And you never did, you just continued to spam more. And those that I did respond to, you simply abandoned in favor of changing the topic again (such as in the case of post #358). You aren't even defending your own words.

You just aren't responsive to any of my posts, you just continue to ramble on with alternate topics.

You have yet to respond to my posts #358, #352, #346, #345, #313, #269, #268, #266, #385 and #382. Some of this are responses to your posts, which you've conveniently abandoned in favor of changing the topic.
 
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The Barbarian

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But evolution is not plausible.

It's directly observed. Can't be more plausible than that.

By evolution I refer to the formation of all the taxons from the hypothetical first microbial life to the taxonomic families observed today and in fossils.

Ah, you've confused a consequence of evolution (common descent) with evolution,which is a change in allele frequencies in a population over time. You might know that a number of major YE creationist groups now admit to a limited amount of common descent. Would you like to talk about that?

Evolution should not refer to the formation of new species and genera caused by mutations breaking genes.

Or forming new ones. Or modifying old ones. Usually, breaking genes won't produce new taxa. AIG and ICR admit to new species, genera, and families descending from common ancestors, and sometimes,they go a bit beyond that. That's a load of common descent.

Do you think there is any evidence from molecular biology?

Yep. As YE creationist Todd Wood admits, "gobs and gobs of it." Would you like to learn about some of it?

Or do you think fossils actually support evolution better than being hard proof of the flood?

YE creationist (and PhD biologist) Kurt Wise admits that the large number of transitional forms a "very good evidence for macroevolutionary theory." Would you like me to show you where these creationists have posted the evidence?

For decades, I didn't investigated the evidence but just accepted what I was told science revealed. Does that describe you?

Since I actually have degrees in the field, no. But it sure does describe YE creationists.
 
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jJIM THINNSEN

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None of the above responds to my actual words. You're just kind of rambling about other topics still.

And no, Neil Shubin does not believe in "recapitulation theory". He actually is very open in discussing it's flaws.

Can you admit that you have lied about what he says in his books? Perhaps you have never read his books and therefore do not actually know what he talks about.

You mentioned an article about alleged tetrapod tracks that are older than tiktaalik. But actually, if you are familiar with ongoing research on tetrapods, you would know that such tracks are contested and actually more recently have been suggested to be fish feeding traces (fossils made by prehistoric fishes digging their mouths into soil).

https://www.researchgate.net/public...itical_Review_of_Devonian_Tetrapod_Footprints

But even if hypothetically there were tetrapod tracks temporally prior to tiktaalik, such alleged traces would actually still fit in with predictions of the theory of evolution in that the traces would still both pre date amphibian dominance of the late devonian, and post date fish dominance of the Cambrian, ordovician and silurian.

But again, none of this addresses tiktaaliks morphological hybrid features, nor does your response address how tiktaaliks temporal and geospatial locality was predicted via the theory of evolution.

You have (though in a less obvious fashion) changed the topic yet again.


"And no, Neil Shubin does not believe in "recapitulation theory". He actually is very open in discussing it's flaws."

BALONEY

Shubin presents the discredited embryonic “recapitulation theory”—the notion that embryos replay their evolutionary history—as if it were true.
 
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jJIM THINNSEN

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It's directly observed. Can't be more plausible than that.



Ah, you've confused a consequence of evolution (common descent) with evolution,which is a change in allele frequencies in a population over time. You might know that a number of major YE creationist groups now admit to a limited amount of common descent. Would you like to talk about that?



Or forming new ones. Or modifying old ones. Usually, breaking genes won't produce new taxa. AIG and ICR admit to new species, genera, and families descending from common ancestors, and sometimes,they go a bit beyond that. That's a load of common descent.



Yep. As YE creationist Todd Wood admits, "gobs and gobs of it." Would you like to learn about some of it?



YE creationist (and PhD biologist) Kurt Wise admits that the large number of transitional forms a "very good evidence for macroevolutionary theory." Would you like me to show you where these creationists have posted the evidence?



Since I actually have degrees in the field, no. But it sure does describe YE creationists.


"
But evolution is not plausible.
It's directly observed. Can't be more plausible than that."


I guess we get to play the dishonest Darwinian game of semantics....

Before we continue... YOU need to clarify what you mean SPECIFICALLY when you use the duplicitous and purposely vague term "Evolution"..

DO YOU MEAN..

(1)... Variation, Adaptation, Speciation or ....De-volution?.. i.e. ..Finches beaks, Cave fish going blind, Moth colors, Weak bacteria lacking enzymes targeted by antibiotics, Dog ears, Mutated fruit flies with 2 WORTHLESS extra wings, Bear coats, Dog Ears and Squirrel tails?

OR DO YOU MEAN …

(2)....Slow Microbe to Microbiologist (UCA for all flora and fauna over 3 BYs) And DONT sit there and try to assert that #1 plus "deep time" leads to #2 as I will embarrass that silly assertion all over the internet..

You will be required to put your cards on the table here.... I just KNOW you are going to enjoy this discussion with me... Cant you feel it too?
cleardot.gif
 
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jJIM THINNSEN

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It's directly observed. Can't be more plausible than that.



Ah, you've confused a consequence of evolution (common descent) with evolution,which is a change in allele frequencies in a population over time. You might know that a number of major YE creationist groups now admit to a limited amount of common descent. Would you like to talk about that?



Or forming new ones. Or modifying old ones. Usually, breaking genes won't produce new taxa. AIG and ICR admit to new species, genera, and families descending from common ancestors, and sometimes,they go a bit beyond that. That's a load of common descent.



Yep. As YE creationist Todd Wood admits, "gobs and gobs of it." Would you like to learn about some of it?



YE creationist (and PhD biologist) Kurt Wise admits that the large number of transitional forms a "very good evidence for macroevolutionary theory." Would you like me to show you where these creationists have posted the evidence?



Since I actually have degrees in the field, no. But it sure does describe YE creationists.


"Yep. As YE creationist Todd Wood admits, "gobs and gobs of it." Would you like to learn about some of it?"

Yeah I was one of the people who called out Todd Wood publicly for such idiocy and wrote him a few letters asking him to explain what he meant by "evolution" But the coward never responded....
 
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jJIM THINNSEN

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It's directly observed. Can't be more plausible than that.



Ah, you've confused a consequence of evolution (common descent) with evolution,which is a change in allele frequencies in a population over time. You might know that a number of major YE creationist groups now admit to a limited amount of common descent. Would you like to talk about that?



Or forming new ones. Or modifying old ones. Usually, breaking genes won't produce new taxa. AIG and ICR admit to new species, genera, and families descending from common ancestors, and sometimes,they go a bit beyond that. That's a load of common descent.



Yep. As YE creationist Todd Wood admits, "gobs and gobs of it." Would you like to learn about some of it?



YE creationist (and PhD biologist) Kurt Wise admits that the large number of transitional forms a "very good evidence for macroevolutionary theory." Would you like me to show you where these creationists have posted the evidence?



Since I actually have degrees in the field, no. But it sure does describe YE creationists.

YOU HAVE DEGREES? IN WHAT FIELD?..


"Or forming new ones."

WHICH OF COURSE HAS NEVER BEEN OBSERVED IN NATURE, BUT IT MAKES A GREAT SCIENCE FICTION NOVEL!

"That's a load of common descent."

ITS A LOAD ALLRIGHT.... BUT NOT OF COMMON DESCENT THATS FOR SURE...

"Darwin's theory of evolution is the last of the great nineteenth-century mystery religions. And as we speak it is now following Freudians and Marxism into the Nether regions, and I'm quite sure that Freud, Marx and Darwin are commiserating one with the other in the dark dungeon where discarded gods gather." (Dr. David Berlinski)

WWW.EVOLUTIONFAIRYTALE.COM
 
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"AND YOU HAVENT RESPONDED TO ALL OF THE EVIDENCE FOR YOUNG EARTH THAT I POSTED #1 #2 #3 #4 #5 #6 #7 #8 #9 #10 #11 #12 #13 #14 #15 #16 #17 #18 #19 #20 #21 #22 #23 #24 #25 #26 #27 #28 #29 #30 #31 #32 #33 #34 #35 #36 #37 #37 #39 #40 #41 #42 #43 #44 #45 #46 #47 #48 #49 #50 #51 #52 #53 #54 #55 #56 #57 #58 #59 #60 #61 #62 #63 #64 #65 #66 #67 #68 #69 #70 #71 #72 #73 #74 #75 #76 #77 #78 #79 #80 #81 #82 #83 #94 #85 #86 #87 #88 #89 #90 #91 #92 #93 #94 #95 #96 #97 GET THE IDEA?"-Jjim Thinnsen

See post #358 for a refutation of numbers 1 through 4. I'll await your response.

And I asked you to pick your top 5, as nobody has time to go through all of them. And you never did, you just continued to spam more. And those that I did respond to, you simply abandoned in favor of changing the topic again (such as in the case of post #358). You aren't even defending your own words.

You just aren't responsive to any of my posts, you just continue to ramble on with alternate topics.

You have yet to respond to my posts #358, #352, #346, #345, #313, #269, #268, #266, #385 and #382. Some of this are responses to your posts, which you've conveniently abandoned in favor of changing the topic.


"And I asked you to pick your top 5,"

THEY ARE ALL GOOD. AN EMBARASSMENT OF RICHES... DEVASTATING TO SATAN'S LIE OF EVOLUTIONISM

"you simply abandoned in favor of changing the topic again"

JUST LIKE YOU HAVE DONE OVER AND OVER... SINCE YOU REFUSE TO ANSWER MY QUESTIONS AND SIMPLY IGNORE THEM, I AM UNDER NO OBLIGATION TO PLAY YOUR LITTLE GAMES.. BESIDES, MY POSTS ARENT FOR YOU ANYWAY, THEY ARE FOR ANY AND ALL OTHERS WHO ARE INTERESTED IN THE TRUTH. I KNOW I WONT CONVINCE YOU, I JUST WANT TO EXPOSE YOU..


"Evolution is sustained largely by a propaganda campaign that relies on all the usual tricks of rhetorical persuasion: hidden assumptions, question-begging statements of what is at issue, terms that are vaguely defined and change their meaning in midargument, attacks of straw men, selective citation of evidence, and so on. The theory is also protected by its cultural importance. It is the officially sanctioned creation story to modern society, and publicly funded educational authorities spare no effort to persuade people to believe it."

(Professor Phillip Johnson)
 
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Job 33:6

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"And no, Neil Shubin does not believe in "recapitulation theory". He actually is very open in discussing it's flaws."

BALONEY

Shubin presents the discredited embryonic “recapitulation theory”—the notion that embryos replay their evolutionary history—as if it were true.

Uh no. Why don't actually read his material rather than listening to lies about him (your link actually doesn't even mention him).

Here are a couple quotes in one of his books:

"Heckles recapitulation theory had been widely discredited... And challenged by new discoveries. Haeckel had such interest in embryology that he sowed the seeds for his own downfall. New data didn't support haeckles recapitulation theory In fact it did quite the opposite. Haeckels idea [recapitulation theory] was wrong." - Neil Shubin, Some Assembly Required.

It doesn't get more straight forward than that. You're just telling blatant lies about what scientists are saying. Can you admit to this?

And again, you're just continuing to change the topic, rather than admitting to your own false words.

Also @Dorothy Mae , still interested in your response to my reference of books such as the above noted, and/or my description of ideas in them, as they pertain to anatomy and evolution.
 
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Job 33:6

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"And no, Neil Shubin does not believe in "recapitulation theory". He actually is very open in discussing it's flaws."

BALONEY

Shubin presents the discredited embryonic “recapitulation theory”—the notion that embryos replay their evolutionary history—as if it were true.

I'll just repeat myself as well because much of your post doesn't actually address what I am saying.



And no, Neil Shubin does not believe in "recapitulation theory". He actually is very open in discussing it's flaws.

Can you admit that you have lied about what he says in his books? Perhaps you have never read his books and therefore do not actually know what he talks about.

You mentioned an article about alleged tetrapod tracks that are older than tiktaalik. But actually, if you are familiar with ongoing research on tetrapods, you would know that such tracks are contested and actually more recently have been suggested to be fish feeding traces (fossils made by prehistoric fishes digging their mouths into soil).

https://www.researchgate.net/public...itical_Review_of_Devonian_Tetrapod_Footprints

But even if hypothetically there were tetrapod tracks temporally prior to tiktaalik, such alleged traces would actually still fit in with predictions of the theory of evolution in that the traces would still both pre date amphibian dominance of the late devonian, and post date fish dominance of the Cambrian, ordovician and silurian.

But again, none of this addresses tiktaaliks morphological hybrid features, nor does your response address how tiktaaliks temporal and geospatial locality was predicted via the theory of evolution.

You have (though in a less obvious fashion) changed the topic yet again.
 
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Job 33:6

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"And I asked you to pick your top 5,"

THEY ARE ALL GOOD. AN EMBARASSMENT OF RICHES... DEVASTATING TO SATAN'S LIE OF EVOLUTIONISM

"you simply abandoned in favor of changing the topic again"

JUST LIKE YOU HAVE DONE OVER AND OVER... SINCE YOU REFUSE TO ANSWER MY QUESTIONS AND SIMPLY IGNORE THEM, I AM UNDER NO OBLIGATION TO PLAY YOUR LITTLE GAMES.. BESIDES, MY POSTS ARENT FOR YOU ANYWAY, THEY ARE FOR ANY AND ALL OTHERS WHO ARE INTERESTED IN THE TRUTH. I KNOW I WONT CONVINCE YOU, I JUST WANT TO EXPOSE YOU..


"Evolution is sustained largely by a propaganda campaign that relies on all the usual tricks of rhetorical persuasion: hidden assumptions, question-begging statements of what is at issue, terms that are vaguely defined and change their meaning in midargument, attacks of straw men, selective citation of evidence, and so on. The theory is also protected by its cultural importance. It is the officially sanctioned creation story to modern society, and publicly funded educational authorities spare no effort to persuade people to believe it."

(Professor Phillip Johnson)

See post #358 for a refutation of number 1 through 4. I'll await your response.

Post #358:
Why do you feel a NEED for theistic evolution?

Here are other posts you haven't responded to:

Genetics:

Post 236:
Why do you feel a NEED for theistic evolution?
Post 266:
Why do you feel a NEED for theistic evolution?

Geology:
Post 313:
Why do you feel a NEED for theistic evolution?

Paleontology:
Post 376 and 377 (Which wasn't directed to you but you have suggested is false without clarity):
Why do you feel a NEED for theistic evolution?
Why do you feel a NEED for theistic evolution?

And just because I enjoyed this one:

Post #347
Why do you feel a NEED for theistic evolution?
 
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See post #358 for a refutation of number 1 through 4. I'll await your response.

Post #358:
Why do you feel a NEED for theistic evolution?

Here are other posts you haven't responded to:

Genetics:

Post 236:
Why do you feel a NEED for theistic evolution?
Post 266:
Why do you feel a NEED for theistic evolution?

Geology:
Post 313:
Why do you feel a NEED for theistic evolution?

Paleontology:
Post 376 and 377 (Which wasn't directed to you but you have suggested is false without clarity):
Why do you feel a NEED for theistic evolution?
Why do you feel a NEED for theistic evolution?

And just because I enjoyed this one:

Post #347
Why do you feel a NEED for theistic evolution?

Here are questions that of course you will dodge ..

I asked you about the rainbow DODGE
 
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Job 33:6

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Here are questions that of course you will dodge ..

I asked you about the rainbow DODGE

If you respond to at least one of the above, then we can talk about whatever your rainbow topic is.
 
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Uh no. Why don't actually read his material rather than listening to lies about him (your link actually doesn't even mention him).

Here are a couple quotes in one of his books:

"Heckles recapitulation theory had been widely discredited... And challenged by new discoveries. Haeckel had such interest in embryology that he sowed the seeds for his own downfall. New data didn't support haeckles recapitulation theory In fact it did quite the opposite. Haeckels idea [recapitulation theory] was wrong." - Neil Shubin, Some Assembly Required.

It doesn't get more straight forward than that. You're just telling blatant lies about what scientists are saying. Can you admit to this?

And again, you're just continuing to change the topic, rather than admitting to your own false words.

Also @Dorothy Mae , still interested in your response to my reference of books such as the above noted, and/or my description of ideas in them, as they pertain to anatomy and evolution.


"It doesn't get more straight forward than that. You're just telling blatant lies about what scientists are saying. Can you admit to this?"

Nice "Bait and Switch" You come on here promoting the delusional fairytale "Your Inner Fish" and when shown what an idiotic fantasy it is you CHANGE TO ANOTHER book written TWELVE YEARS LATER!! LOL

I guess if an Oval-Earther can falsely call Jesus a liar about HIS Creation, Falsely calling a mere mortal like me should be child's play right champ?

"50As a result, this generation will be charged with the blood of all the prophets that has been shed since the foundation of the world, 51from the blood of Abel to the blood of Zechariah, who was killed between the altar and the sanctuary. Yes, I tell you, all of it will be charged to this generation. 52Woe to you experts in the law! For you have taken away the key to knowledge. You yourselves have not entered, and you have hindered those who were entering.”… Luke 11
 
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Do you disagree with the suggestion that mankind has a fused chromosome? Even though we have 4 telomeres and two centromeres in a single chromosome?

If Man and ape share a common ancestor, why does man have only 46 chromosomes yet apes have 48?
 
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jJIM THINNSEN

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And I already said morphology doesn't prove anything
Age (and radiometric dating is used on rocks and fossils.) based on assumptions doesn't prove anything
And position also means nothing.
They mean nothing because man was not there when it happened, man does not know how the laws of the world changed, he can't replicate or repeat it in an experiment. In which case he is taking a whole lot on faith and in how things appear.

Now if someone who doesn't know God comes across such evidence I can see why they would believe it because it's a good story. But we are not Godless nor are we without a trusted eye witness. God tells us how he created and that there was a global flood. Since I trust in the miracles of Jesus I also trust in the miracle of creation as written.

Just because a boy stands with a bat looking at a broken window does not prove that he broke it. You can say it looks like he broke it, but if nobody was there to see it happen it can't be proved that he did, no matter how it looks.


Yeah, just saying "Morphology" as if that is the magic answer to the Fairytale of evolutionismmmmm
 
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