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Why do you feel a NEED for theistic evolution?

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jJIM THINNSEN

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Sometimes all you can do is laugh at some of the bizarre things people say.

Let's talk about fossils for a minute...

What do we know when we dig up bones in the dirt that have been fossilized...

We know that a certain kind of creature DIED....

Do we know if that SPECIFIC creature had parents, grandparents or great great grandparents ad naus. that were morphologically different than the creature represented by those bones?

NOPE...

Do you know if the creature from those bones had any kids?

NOPE

Do you know if they had any grandkids or great great grandkids?

NOPE

Do we know, (assuming it DID have great great grandkids), if they would have been different then them in any morphologically significant way?

NOPE.....

You see, what is being done here is that wishful speculation, hopeful assumptions, optimistic guesses, just so stories and IMAGINATION are being lauded as SCIENCE.... That is NOT science... It is the philosophy of Metaphysical Naturalism where "long ago and far away" creatures were able to do things that we DON'T OBSERVE (Scientific method) Today!!!
 
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Dorothy Mae

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"To maintain their status in the world they trash the character of God which doesn’t bother them at all."

Yup, they ALL do that... I posit that if they were to become born again of the spirit like Jesus commanded his followers to do, The blinding scales would fall from their eyes and they would drop the fairytale of Evolutionism in an instant and embrace Gods truth... The Bible addresses the Oval-Earthers and especially the militant ones like Kenneth Miller in clear language...

Matthew 7:15
“Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing but inwardly are ravenous wolves.

1 John 4:1
Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, for many false prophets have gone out into the world.

Matthew 7:15-23
“Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing but inwardly are ravenous wolves. You will recognize them by their fruits. Are grapes gathered from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? So, every healthy tree bears good fruit, but the diseased tree bears bad fruit. A healthy tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a diseased tree bear good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. ...

2 Corinthians 11:13-15
For such men are false apostles, deceitful workmen, disguising themselves as apostles of Christ. And no wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light. So it is no surprise if his servants, also, disguise themselves as servants of righteousness. Their end will correspond to their deeds.

2 Timothy 4:3
For the time is coming when people will not endure sound teaching, but having itching ears they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own passions,

Romans 16:17-18
I appeal to you, brothers, to watch out for those who cause divisions and create obstacles contrary to the doctrine that you have been taught; avoid them. For such persons do not serve our Lord Christ, but their own appetites, and by smooth talk and flattery they deceive the hearts of the naive.

MATTHEW 7
"22Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?’ 23Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you workers of lawlessness!’ 24Therefore everyone who hears these words of Mine and acts on them is like a wise man who built his house on the rock"
I am not quick to say whether a man is his but still a long way off from knowing Him and his ways or whether he’s never started that path at all. It’s hard to determine and not my duty to do so. I listen and watch if there is something I am to say or do.

But what is crystal clear to me is whether a person loves God or not despite what they say in praise of their own devotion. No man can trash the character of God being willing to teach others that God lies or Jesus was ignorant about creation and love Him at the same time. They might walk with him for a time loving his salvation, what they think they got from Him, but sooner or later they will have to choose between being like the world and liked by the world and going on with Jesus. I have never met a TE who loved God, Himself. And in the end that is what counts with Him.
 
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Job 33:6

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Let's talk about fossils for a minute...

What do we know when we dig up bones in the dirt that have been fossilized...

We know that a certain kind of creature DIED....

Do we know if that SPECIFIC creature had parents, grandparents or great great grandparents ad naus. that were morphologically different than the creature represented by those bones?

NOPE...

Do you know if the creature from those bones had any kids?

NOPE

Do you know if they had any grandkids or great great grandkids?

NOPE

Do we know, (assuming it DID have great great grandkids), if they would have been different then them in any morphologically significant way?

NOPE.....

You see, what is being done here is that wishful speculation, hopeful assumptions, optimistic guesses, just so stories and IMAGINATION are being lauded as SCIENCE.... That is NOT science... It is the philosophy of Metaphysical Naturalism where "long ago and far away" creatures were able to do things that we DON'T OBSERVE (Scientific method) Today!!!

So when will you actually stick to one topic? You propose A, I respond to A and you move onto B, then onto C and onto D.

You never actually respond to what I have to say, you just abandon a topic and come up with new baseless claims.

Or is your goal just to spam baseless comments without actually discussing any of them?
 
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Dorothy Mae

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Sure. I suppose what people find "unusual" could vary depending on ones background. I'll use unusual more often.

The idea that a volcano might erupt the mass of the entire moon or planet that it resides on, is an unusual statement. Typically, when volcanoes erupt, the vast majority, if not all of the mass they erupt, returns to the moon or planet that they reside on. The volcano would have to eject it's mass beyond the gravitational pull of the planet, which in many cases, is not mathematically feasible.

Just as on earth, volcanoes erupt and most, if not all mass erupted, even of the largest eruptions, simply returns to the earth and is re-erupted again.

It should also be noted that volcanoes are not necessarily as old as their respective planets or moons. Even if a volcano erupted a significant amount of mass, and even if some percentage of that mass was lost to the atmosphere, The volcano wouldn't necessarily have been conducting the same eruptions for the entire history of the planet.

To suggest that a moon would erupt all of its mass, really is just a baseless claim, and there's nothing un scientific or unprofessional about saying this. It just is what it is. Let's see what else I can dig up.
Ok that’s better. I’m afraid my background is medicine so I have less to say about geology differences you bring up.

I have heard non-biology majors who embraced TE likened the formation of living bodies to that of earth structures which do take a long time to form and keep forming (changing.) I supposed it was easier to do that as an earth science student. Earth structures need perform no operations along the way. Biological life forms have to perform all of them (some extremely complex and interdependent) and perform perfectly all the while evolving new structures and operations. This I found impossible to explain in evolution. God only gave life to bodies when they were complete. Evolution insists they were living before complete. Probably easier to believe if one didn’t study physiology.
 
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Gottservant

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[...]
But evolution is not plausible.
[...]
Why do you feel a need for theistic evolution?

I think the thing is, is that God forgives a range of sins, in a categorical sense.

That is, God categorically defines humanity as evolved, and pays the price of being evolved, with the sacrifice of a Supremely Evolved Son.

There is no sense, in which God evolves forgiveness and when it is right, then He gives it - that would be conditional "love".

Instead God pays the ultimate variation (of sacrifice), up front and it is up to us to interpret our relation to Him, by it - those that think the variation is insufficient, to condemnation and those that think the variation categorically sufficient (that is, for all possible variations) to justification - that is, crediting God with foreknowledge, in principle, to His Glory (that He saved us by)!

So, now we struggle in the flesh, as to whether we have rendered to God His due (praise) - noting in part that a theory of Evolution that was theistic, would help point that worthiness (of God) out - to us! I think that at least, is why I feel a "need" for theistic Evolution.

If there was something left out by theistic Evolution, I honestly wouldn't know what it was.
 
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Dorothy Mae

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I think the thing is, is that God forgives a range of sins, in a categorical sense.

That is, God categorically defines humanity as evolved, and pays the price of being evolved, with the sacrifice of a Supremely Evolved Son.

There is no sense, in which God evolves forgiveness and when it is right, then He gives it - that would be conditional "love".

Instead God pays the ultimate variation (of sacrifice), up front and it is up to us to interpret our relation to Him, by it - those that think the variation is insufficient, to condemnation and those that think the variation categorically sufficient (that is, for all possible variations) to justification - that is, crediting God with foreknowledge, in principle, to His Glory (that He saved us by)!

So, now we struggle in the flesh, as to whether we have rendered to God His due (praise) - noting in part that a theory of Evolution that was theistic, would help point that worthiness (of God) out - to us! I think that at least, is why I feel a "need" for theistic Evolution.

If there was something left out by theistic Evolution, I honestly wouldn't know what it was.
How about defining the world as God and those who knew Him did?
 
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Job 33:6

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. This I found impossible to explain in evolution. God only gave life to bodies when they were complete. Evolution insists they were living before complete. Probably easier to believe if one didn’t study physiology.

Sorry, I don't understand what you mean. Could you give an example?
 
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Dorothy Mae

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I think the thing is, is that God forgives a range of sins, in a categorical sense.

That is, God categorically defines humanity as evolved, and pays the price of being evolved, with the sacrifice of a Supremely Evolved Son.
I’m very sure God KNOWS we are not evolved. It might be that He knows we devolved, that is we are less robust, less intelligent and in general inferior to the first man and woman He made.
 
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jJIM THINNSEN

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So when will you actually stick to one topic? You propose A, I respond to A and you move onto B, then onto C and onto D.

You never actually respond to what I have to say, you just abandon a topic and come up with new baseless claims.

Or is your goal just to spam baseless comments without actually discussing any of them?

You never respond to anything.. You just dodge and evade bob and weave while throwing in assertions talking points and bumper stickers..

You said you weren't going to respond to my posts and you have been true to your word...

ATHEISTS LAUGH AT OVAL EARTHERS WHO CARRY THEIR BANNER OF GODLESS EVOLUTION FOR THEM...

"The day will come when the evidence constantly accumulating around the evolutionary theory becomes so massively persuasive that even the last and most fundamental
Christian warriors will have to lay down their arms and surrender unconditionally. I believe that day will be the end of Christianity.” “The Meaning of Evolution”, American Atheist

"Christianity has fought, still fights, and will fight science to the desperate end over evolution, because evolution destroys utterly and finally the very reason Jesus’
earthly life was supposedly made necessary. Destroy Adam and Eve and the original sin, and in the rubble you will find the sorry remains of the son of god.
Take away the meaning of his death. If Jesus was not the redeemer that died for our sins, and this is what evolution means, then Christianity is nothing." G. Richard Bozarth,

"Evolution is promoted by its practitioners as more than mere science. Evolution is promulgated as an ideology, as secular religion—a full-fledged alternative to Christianity,
with meaning and morality. I am an ardent evolutionist and an ex-Christian, but I must admit that in this one complaint—and Mr. Gish is but one of many to make it—
the literalists are absolutely right. Evolution is a religion. This was true of evolution in the beginning, and it is true of evolution still today” (Ruse).

"The most devastating thing though that biology did to Christianity was the discovery of biological evolution. Now that we know that Adam and Eve never were real people the central myth of Christianity is destroyed. If there never was an Adam and Eve there never was an original sin. If there never was an original sin there is no need of salvation. If there is no need of salvation there is no need of a Savior. And I submit that puts Jesus, historical or otherwise, into the ranks of the unemployed. I think that evolution is absolutely the death knell of Christianity.'"""
Frank Zindler

"Darwin made it possible to be an intellectually fulfilled Atheist"
Richard Dawkins
 
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jJIM THINNSEN

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I think the thing is, is that God forgives a range of sins, in a categorical sense.

That is, God categorically defines humanity as evolved, and pays the price of being evolved, with the sacrifice of a Supremely Evolved Son.

There is no sense, in which God evolves forgiveness and when it is right, then He gives it - that would be conditional "love".

Instead God pays the ultimate variation (of sacrifice), up front and it is up to us to interpret our relation to Him, by it - those that think the variation is insufficient, to condemnation and those that think the variation categorically sufficient (that is, for all possible variations) to justification - that is, crediting God with foreknowledge, in principle, to His Glory (that He saved us by)!

So, now we struggle in the flesh, as to whether we have rendered to God His due (praise) - noting in part that a theory of Evolution that was theistic, would help point that worthiness (of God) out - to us! I think that at least, is why I feel a "need" for theistic Evolution.

If there was something left out by theistic Evolution, I honestly wouldn't know what it was.

"That is, God categorically defines humanity as evolved,"

I dont remember reading that anywhere in the Bible.. Are you making it up as you go along? Are you an Oval-Earther?

Here is a good website for you to check out..

WWW.EVOLUTIONFAIRYTALE.COM
 
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jJIM THINNSEN

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All I am saying is that when God forgave, He forgave categorically - there is no need to second guess what He meant by forgiveness.

What does that have to do with the Devil's lie of Evolutionism?
 
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jJIM THINNSEN

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So when will you actually stick to one topic? You propose A, I respond to A and you move onto B, then onto C and onto D.

You never actually respond to what I have to say, you just abandon a topic and come up with new baseless claims.

Or is your goal just to spam baseless comments without actually discussing any of them?

You still have 98 examples of scientific evidence that support young Earth to get to!! I would say that at least 40 of them are pretty devastating for those who doubt Gods word..
 
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Dorothy Mae

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All I am saying is that when God forgave, He forgave categorically - there is no need to second guess what He meant by forgiveness.
I am afraid I have to ask you what forgiving categorically means exactly. The reason is there are conditions to be fulfilled before He forgives. In most cases "categorically" means no conditions which is not true. So what do you mean when you say that, please?
 
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Dorothy Mae

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Sorry, I don't understand what you mean. Could you give an example?
If you believe in evolution and oppose any other view as emotionally as you do, you likely know the dismiss the biological difficulties. I have discussed these matters with evolutionists before and as they have no answer for the problems, you, a geologist, will certainly not. I mean, they have an answer, and that is "it just happened" which is no intellectual answer.

In believing evolution, I wondered how they answered how living creatures went from single cell division to mammallian reproduction all the while still having viable offspring. The answer was "slowly over time." Since I studied anatomy, human and otherwise, I knew the bodies of all living creatures are efficiently organized with no extra or developing but today useless organs, yet evolution claims this is what happpened and over eons. Evolving creatures had to carry useless organs and not small ones, not ready for service as they went from the various forms of simple reproduction to extremely complex. And that is only reproduction. There is respiration, digestion and various other body functions that are very complex and do not change or death occurs. Are you really unaware of any scientific reservations about the theory of evolution? You really never heard of any of them? Really?
 
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Job 33:6

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If you believe in evolution and oppose any other view as emotionally as you do, you likely know the dismiss the biological difficulties. I have discussed these matters with evolutionists before and as they have no answer for the problems, you, a geologist, will certainly not. I mean, they have an answer, and that is "it just happened" which is no intellectual answer.

In believing evolution, I wondered how they answered how living creatures went from single cell division to mammallian reproduction all the while still having viable offspring. The answer was "slowly over time." Since I studied anatomy, human and otherwise, I knew the bodies of all living creatures are efficiently organized with no extra or developing but today useless organs, yet evolution claims this is what happpened and over eons. Evolving creatures had to carry useless organs and not small ones, not ready for service as they went from the various forms of simple reproduction to extremely complex. And that is only reproduction. There is respiration, digestion and various other body functions that are very complex and do not change or death occurs. Are you really unaware of any scientific reservations about the theory of evolution? You really never heard of any of them? Really?

I'll try my best to answer this, as someone who doesn't know explicitly what you're thinking about. I can only really guess what you're referring to without hearing explicit details but:

Since you're into anatomy, and please don't doubt what a geologist might know about anatomy, as geologists sometimes double as anatomists and we work closely with anatomists, as anatomy is of course significant to paleontology...

But anyway, if you're into anatomy, Neil Shubin, who perhaps you have heard me reference before, happens to be an anatomist. He knows a lot about anatomy and has written several books on anatomy and has published on anatomy etc. But he also doubles as a paleontologist, which means that he works closely in conjunction with geologists, to synchronize our research. As a matter of fact, I can attest to his geology and paleontology related work, as our community isn't the largest and often we look at the same bones and rocks and work with the same people.

And one thing Neil regularly says, and supports through discussion of anatomy, is that, he often talks about the idea of "useless organs", much like you appear to be discussing now.

He gives several examples of "useless organs". Basically saying, how could evolution form X, Y, and , Z complex organs/functions/processes simultaneously?

His common example is in relation of course to the fish to amphibians transition. He says: in order to a fish to evolve to walk on land, it would have to undergo a massive transformation. It would need to go from water breathing to air breathing (where would it's lungs even come from). It's fins would have to evolve to limbs, fish would have to undergo dietary changes and digestive track changes, circulatory system changes and really a whole host of simultaneous changes that seem like an insurmountable feat for the theory of evolution.

And this is at best, all I can guess you're referring to.

But in Neil Shubins books, he then proceeds with tackling these topics, as an anatomist, specifically describing history of anatomists and their findings, and linking them to modern day anatomy research, and then tying them in with geology via paleontology (which is really just comparative anatomy and morphology).


And I would highly recommend reading his books. Here is one that is maybe 90% purely talk about anatomy:

https://www.amazon.com/Some-Assembl...8510285&sprefix=some+assembly+required&sr=8-1

But actually his books go into a lot more detail even beyond anatomy, but more specifically about how genes are altered, thereby altering proteins and further how the timing of development weights in along with triggers which can drastically transform the anatomy of an animal in a viable manner. Of course single gene mutation and the timing of anatomical development through altering genetic triggers can be the difference between an animal having two limbs or 4 (he lists several examples of drastic morphological changes and specifically how mutations account for them).


So anyway, to answer the question though, of how evolution accounts for what seems to be an impossible feat, Neil describes, in anatomical detail, one by one, some of these features (obviously you can't write about all of them otherwise you'd be writing a million page book), and how they formed.

And in most cases, it's not that evolution generated all of these organs out of thin air, but rather that they typically pre existed and simply served alternate functions.

And I'll give an example shortly, just have to grab some coffee.

And I think this is great because you explicitly mention respiration, so I'll talk about respiration as it pertains to anatomy.
 
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Job 33:6

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Following up on my last post. I could probably give a handful of examples from Neil's collection, but one might ask, did fish evolve partial or useless lungs, so that when they walked out of water, they could then breathe? What use are lungs to fish that live underwater? Did fish carry around useless lungs, so that when they finally walked on land, they could breathe? Were these organs, as you say, "not ready for service"?

As noted above, the feasible explanation is that fish had lungs in some fashion, prior to walking on land. Indeed, fish in today's world in some cases breathe air through spiracles. In cases where oxygen is depleted in water, some fish simply swim to the surface and breathe. An example being lungfish.

And the crossover with geology and paleontology comes when we observe spiracles for breathing of air in tiktaalik, the transitional from fish to amphibians, suggesting that prehistoric fish could actually breathe air too.

Fish also have swim bladders. Which are anatomically very similar to lungs. Fish use swim bladders to adjust their bouyancy while underwater.

And the genes that construct swim bladders in fish, also happen to be the same genes that construct lungs in lung fish (a coincidence? No of course not).

So anatomically, and genetically, we have a link between lungs and swim bladders, and a circulatory system that already allows for respiration via air breathing. Indeed, the anatomy necessary to make the leap from water to land, was already present, as was the respiratory system needed to process oxygen. And yet, fish lungs of course are much different than reptile and mammal lungs. But they key is doing things one step at a time.


The truth is that evolution often works with features that are already present. Our hands have 5 digits, but those 5 digits were present in reptiles and amphibians and even in fish, long before we came about. The same goes for our organs. These organs and bones simply served alternative functions.

Which means that, what once might have been thought to be an insurmountable number simultaneous changes, becomes a more feasible case of taking a single tool and simply using it for different functions. And the question is simply of what function prehistoric organs held, prior to being what they are today.

And this, theoretically, one might expect to be a massive challenge to the theory of evolution in comparison to topics related to the digestive track or vision, which wouldn't generally be as significant as going from water breathing to air breathing. And yet, genomic sequencing, paleontology and anatomy tell the tale.

And this is just a really crude rundown of a single example of the things Neil discusses in his books. He goes into a lot more detail on genetics and talks about a whole host of anatomical features. And if you're sincerely passionate about anatomy as it pertains to evolution, I would highly recommend reading all of his books.

@Dorothy Mae is this what you were considering when mentioning organs and the circulatory system?
 
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jJIM THINNSEN

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Following up on my last post. I could probably give a handful of examples from Neil's collection, but one might ask, did fish evolve partial or useless lungs, so that when they walked out of water, they could then breathe? What use are lungs to fish that live underwater? Did fish carry around useless lungs, so that when they finally walked on land, they could breathe? Were these organs, as you say, "not ready for service"?

As noted above, the feasible explanation is that fish had lungs in some fashion, prior to walking on land. Indeed, fish in today's world in some cases breathe air through spiracles. In cases where oxygen is depleted in water, some fish simply swim to the surface and breathe. An example being lungfish.

And the crossover with geology and paleontology comes when we observe spiracles for breathing of air in tiktaalik, the transitional from fish to amphibians, suggesting that prehistoric fish could actually breathe air too.

Fish also have swim bladders. Which are anatomically very similar to lungs. Fish use swim bladders to adjust their bouyancy while underwater.

And the genes that construct swim bladders in fish, also happen to be the same genes that construct lungs in lung fish (a coincidence? No of course not).

So anatomically, and genetically, we have a link between lungs and swim bladders, and a circulatory system that already allows for respiration via air breathing. Indeed, the anatomy necessary to make the leap from water to land, was already present, as was the respiratory system needed to process oxygen. And yet, fish lungs of course are much different than reptile and mammal lungs. But they key is doing things one step at a time.


The truth is that evolution often works with features that are already present. Our hands have 5 digits, but those 5 digits were present in reptiles and amphibians and even in fish, long before we came about. The same goes for our organs. These organs and bones simply served alternative functions.

Which means that, what once might have been thought to be an insurmountable number simultaneous changes, becomes a more feasible case of taking a single tool and simply using it for different functions. And the question is simply of what function prehistoric organs held, prior to being what they are today.

And this, theoretically, one might expect to be a massive challenge to the theory of evolution in comparison to topics related to the digestive track or vision, which wouldn't generally be as significant as going from water breathing to air breathing. And yet, genomic sequencing, paleontology and anatomy tell the tale.

And this is just a really crude rundown of a single example of the things Neil discusses in his books. He goes into a lot more detail on genetics and talks about a whole host of anatomical features. And if you're sincerely passionate about anatomy as it pertains to evolution, I would highly recommend reading all of his books.

@Dorothy Mae is this what you were considering when mentioning organs and the circulatory system?


"As noted above, the feasible explanation is that fish had lungs in some fashion,"

It isn't feasible to ANYONE except the religious zealots of Evolutionism...


"The truth is that evolution often works with features that are already present."

No, the Truth is that evolution NEVER "works" because there is no such thing as biological evolution.. It is a Fairytale.. A science fiction novel about "long ago and far away" that has ZERO scientific evidence to support..


Question..
Why do evolutionists claim that chimps are closely related to humans when humans have 46 chromosomes and apes have 48?

"I believe that one day the Darwinian myth will be ranked the greatest deceit in the history of science. When this happens, many people will pose the question, "How did this ever happen?"

(Dr. Sorren Luthrip, Swedish Embryologist)
 
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jJIM THINNSEN

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I'll try my best to answer this, as someone who doesn't know explicitly what you're thinking about. I can only really guess what you're referring to without hearing explicit details but:

Since you're into anatomy, and please don't doubt what a geologist might know about anatomy, as geologists sometimes double as anatomists and we work closely with anatomists, as anatomy is of course significant to paleontology...

But anyway, if you're into anatomy, Neil Shubin, who perhaps you have heard me reference before, happens to be an anatomist. He knows a lot about anatomy and has written several books on anatomy and has published on anatomy etc. But he also doubles as a paleontologist, which means that he works closely in conjunction with geologists, to synchronize our research. As a matter of fact, I can attest to his geology and paleontology related work, as our community isn't the largest and often we look at the same bones and rocks and work with the same people.

And one thing Neil regularly says, and supports through discussion of anatomy, is that, he often talks about the idea of "useless organs", much like you appear to be discussing now.

He gives several examples of "useless organs". Basically saying, how could evolution form X, Y, and , Z complex organs/functions/processes simultaneously?

His common example is in relation of course to the fish to amphibians transition. He says: in order to a fish to evolve to walk on land, it would have to undergo a massive transformation. It would need to go from water breathing to air breathing (where would it's lungs even come from). It's fins would have to evolve to limbs, fish would have to undergo dietary changes and digestive track changes, circulatory system changes and really a whole host of simultaneous changes that seem like an insurmountable feat for the theory of evolution.

And this is at best, all I can guess you're referring to.

But in Neil Shubins books, he then proceeds with tackling these topics, as an anatomist, specifically describing history of anatomists and their findings, and linking them to modern day anatomy research, and then tying them in with geology via paleontology (which is really just comparative anatomy and morphology).


And I would highly recommend reading his books. Here is one that is maybe 90% purely talk about anatomy:

https://www.amazon.com/Some-Assembl...8510285&sprefix=some+assembly+required&sr=8-1

But actually his books go into a lot more detail even beyond anatomy, but more specifically about how genes are altered, thereby altering proteins and further how the timing of development weights in along with triggers which can drastically transform the anatomy of an animal in a viable manner. Of course single gene mutation and the timing of anatomical development through altering genetic triggers can be the difference between an animal having two limbs or 4 (he lists several examples of drastic morphological changes and specifically how mutations account for them).


So anyway, to answer the question though, of how evolution accounts for what seems to be an impossible feat, Neil describes, in anatomical detail, one by one, some of these features (obviously you can't write about all of them otherwise you'd be writing a million page book), and how they formed.

And in most cases, it's not that evolution generated all of these organs out of thin air, but rather that they typically pre existed and simply served alternate functions.

And I'll give an example shortly, just have to grab some coffee.

And I think this is great because you explicitly mention respiration, so I'll talk about respiration as it pertains to anatomy.

WHY DO WE EVEN HAVE RAINBOWS? ANOTHER EVOLUTIONARY "ACCIDENT"? HMM.. WHO SHOULD WE BELIEVE? GOD? OR YOU! LOL

"And God said, “This is the sign of the covenant I am making between Me and you and every living creature with you, a covenant for all generations to come: 13I have set My rainbow in the clouds, and it will be a sign of the covenant between Me and the earth."


Age of the earth - creation.com

"9/10 of the talk of evolution is sheer nonsense not founded on observation and wholly unsupported by fact. This Museum is full of proof of the utter falsity of their view."

(Dr. Ethredge, British Museum)
 
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jJIM THINNSEN

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I'll try my best to answer this, as someone who doesn't know explicitly what you're thinking about. I can only really guess what you're referring to without hearing explicit details but:

Since you're into anatomy, and please don't doubt what a geologist might know about anatomy, as geologists sometimes double as anatomists and we work closely with anatomists, as anatomy is of course significant to paleontology...

But anyway, if you're into anatomy, Neil Shubin, who perhaps you have heard me reference before, happens to be an anatomist. He knows a lot about anatomy and has written several books on anatomy and has published on anatomy etc. But he also doubles as a paleontologist, which means that he works closely in conjunction with geologists, to synchronize our research. As a matter of fact, I can attest to his geology and paleontology related work, as our community isn't the largest and often we look at the same bones and rocks and work with the same people.

And one thing Neil regularly says, and supports through discussion of anatomy, is that, he often talks about the idea of "useless organs", much like you appear to be discussing now.

He gives several examples of "useless organs". Basically saying, how could evolution form X, Y, and , Z complex organs/functions/processes simultaneously?

His common example is in relation of course to the fish to amphibians transition. He says: in order to a fish to evolve to walk on land, it would have to undergo a massive transformation. It would need to go from water breathing to air breathing (where would it's lungs even come from). It's fins would have to evolve to limbs, fish would have to undergo dietary changes and digestive track changes, circulatory system changes and really a whole host of simultaneous changes that seem like an insurmountable feat for the theory of evolution.

And this is at best, all I can guess you're referring to.

But in Neil Shubins books, he then proceeds with tackling these topics, as an anatomist, specifically describing history of anatomists and their findings, and linking them to modern day anatomy research, and then tying them in with geology via paleontology (which is really just comparative anatomy and morphology).


And I would highly recommend reading his books. Here is one that is maybe 90% purely talk about anatomy:

https://www.amazon.com/Some-Assembl...8510285&sprefix=some+assembly+required&sr=8-1

But actually his books go into a lot more detail even beyond anatomy, but more specifically about how genes are altered, thereby altering proteins and further how the timing of development weights in along with triggers which can drastically transform the anatomy of an animal in a viable manner. Of course single gene mutation and the timing of anatomical development through altering genetic triggers can be the difference between an animal having two limbs or 4 (he lists several examples of drastic morphological changes and specifically how mutations account for them).


So anyway, to answer the question though, of how evolution accounts for what seems to be an impossible feat, Neil describes, in anatomical detail, one by one, some of these features (obviously you can't write about all of them otherwise you'd be writing a million page book), and how they formed.

And in most cases, it's not that evolution generated all of these organs out of thin air, but rather that they typically pre existed and simply served alternate functions.

And I'll give an example shortly, just have to grab some coffee.

And I think this is great because you explicitly mention respiration, so I'll talk about respiration as it pertains to anatomy.


"But actually his books go into a lot more detail even beyond anatomy,"

So you want Creationists to believe that MUTATIONS allowed for for an organless Microbe to S L O W L Y evolve into a Microbiologist with 10 interlocked, interdependent, interconnected VITAL organs AND their support systems all working perfectly together in tandem and harmony or we DIE when NO ONE can even provide a plausible chronological evolutionary order for man's (Or ANY mammal's) VITAL organs??

Which VITAL organ evolved FIRST? Liver?
Which VITAL organ evolved SECOND? Lower Intestine?
Which VITAL organ evolved THIRD? Stomach?
Which VITAL organ evolved FOURTH? Pancreas?
Which VITAL organ evolved FIFTH? Lungs?
Which VITAL organ evolved SIXTH? Kidneys?
Which VITAL organ evolved SEVENTH? Upper intestine?
Which VITAL organ evolved EIGHTH? Brain?
Which VITAL organ evolved NINTH? Heart?
Which VITAL organ evolved LAST? Skin?

You see, We are IRREDUCIBLY COMPLEX!!!

If you want to continue to believe in Evolutionism due to an emotional attachment because its IMPLICATIONS happen to align with your philosophical worldview, You are doing the right thing by avoiding me like the plague.. I am an Evolutionist's worst nightmare.. However, if you want to know the truth, even if that truth isn't what your itching ears want to hear, then respond with answers instead of bumper stickers and talking points.. Either way, I will continue to expose the myth of Evolutionism for our readers as the truth will set you free...

The Bible predicted all of this 2000 years ago with stunning accuracy!!

"For the time will come when people will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths."

2 Timothy 4:3-4
 
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