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Why do you feel a NEED for theistic evolution?

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jJIM THINNSEN

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You seem to have a lot of misconceptions about it. For example, you don't seem to even know the four key points of Darwinian theory. What do you think they are?



There are four key points to Darwinian theory, and you have no idea what they are. But you propose to tell us about it. Shouldn't you at least know something about it, if you propose to teach us about it?

(quote-mining attempt fails)
"Ultimately the Darwinian theory of evolution is no more nor less than the great cosmogenic myth of the twentieth century...The origin of life and of new beings on earth is still largely as enigmatic as when Darwin set sail on the [ship] Beagle."

(Dr. Michael Denton, molecular biochemist, Evolution: A Theory in Crisis (1986), p. 358

Well, let's see what Michael Denton says more recently...


t is important to emphasize at the outset that the argument presented here is entirely consistent with the basic naturalistic assumption of modern science--that the cosmos is a seamless unity which can be comprehended in its entirety by human reason and in which all phenomena, including life and evolution and the origin of man, are ultimately explicable in terms of natural processes. This is an assumption which is entirely opposed to that of the so-called "special creationist school." According to special creationism, living organisms are not natural forms, whose origin and design were built into the laws of nature from the beginning, but rather contingent forms analogous in essence to human artifacts, the result of a series of supernatural acts, involving God's direct intervention in the course of nature, each of which involved the suspension of natural law. Contrary to the creationist position, the whole argument presented here is critically dependent on the presumption of the unbroken continuity of the organic world--that is, on the reality of organic evolution and on the presumption that all living organisms on earth are natural forms in the profoundest sense of the word, no less natural than salt crystals, atoms, waterfalls, or galaxies.

In large measure, therefore, the teleological argument presented here and the special creationist worldview are mutually exclusive accounts of the world. In the last analysis, evidence for one is evidence against the other. Put simply, the more convincing is the evidence for believing that the world is prefabricated to the end of life, that the design is built into the laws of nature, the less credible becomes the special creationist worldview.

(Dr. Michael Denton, molecular biochemist, Nature's Destiny (1998) pp p. xvii-xviii) (emphasis mine)

Live by quote-mining, die by quote-mining.


Only to an Evolutionist are ACTUAL QUOTES considered "Quote Mining" LOL

"Darwin made it possible to be an intellectually fulfilled Atheist" Richard Dawkins
 
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The Barbarian

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Only to an Evolutionist are ACTUAL QUOTES considered "Quote Mining"

As you learned, you presented several dishonest faked quotes here. I'm quite sure you were unaware, and very likely never read the originals. Most likely, you just copied it down from someone you made the mistake of trusting. Here's an honest quote from one person you presented as being opposed to evolution:

In large measure, therefore, the teleological argument presented here and the special creationist worldview are mutually exclusive accounts of the world. In the last analysis, evidence for one is evidence against the other. Put simply, the more convincing is the evidence for believing that the world is prefabricated to the end of life, that the design is built into the laws of nature, the less credible becomes the special creationist worldview.
(Dr. Michael Denton, molecular biochemist, Nature's Destiny (1998) pp p. xvii-xviii) (emphasis mine)

And yes, I have his book on my shelf, and I've read it. But you clearly didn't or you wouldn't have included that edited "quote" from him.
 
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jJIM THINNSEN

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As you learned, you presented several dishonest faked quotes here. I'm quite sure you were unaware, and very likely never read the originals. Most likely, you just copied it down from someone you made the mistake of trusting. Here's an honest quote from one person you presented as being opposed to evolution:

In large measure, therefore, the teleological argument presented here and the special creationist worldview are mutually exclusive accounts of the world. In the last analysis, evidence for one is evidence against the other. Put simply, the more convincing is the evidence for believing that the world is prefabricated to the end of life, that the design is built into the laws of nature, the less credible becomes the special creationist worldview.
(Dr. Michael Denton, molecular biochemist, Nature's Destiny (1998) pp p. xvii-xviii) (emphasis mine)

And yes, I have his book on my shelf, and I've read it. But you clearly didn't or you wouldn't have included that edited "quote" from him.

"Here's an honest quote from one person you presented as being opposed to evolution:" (Dr. Michael Denton, molecular biochemist, Nature's Destiny (1998) pp p. xvii-xviii)

LOL Oh, that's right, who would think that the guy who wrote THIS BOOK would be "opposed to evolution"??HAHA What was I thinking when I claimed he was opposed to evolution??? LOL And YOU have the utter gall to call ME "dishonest" I guess if one is able to falsely accuse both God the Father AND his Son LIARS about THEIR Creation, Calling a mere mortal like me a liar by false accusation should be easy right?


EVOLUTION: A THEORY IN CRISIS By Michael Denton - Hardcover **Mint Condition**
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The Barbarian

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LOL Oh, that's right, who would think that the guy who wrote THIS BOOK would be "opposed to evolution"??HAHA What was I thinking when I claimed he was opposed to evolution???

Because you never read the book, you were easily fooled by a carefully edited quote. But here's what Denton actually thinks:

Contrary to the creationist position, the whole argument presented here is critically dependent on the presumption of the unbroken continuity of the organic world--that is, on the reality of organic evolution and on the presumption that all living organisms on earth are natural forms in the profoundest sense of the word, no less natural than salt crystals, atoms, waterfalls, or galaxies.

In large measure, therefore, the teleological argument presented here and the special creationist worldview are mutually exclusive accounts of the world. In the last analysis, evidence for one is evidence against the other. Put simply, the more convincing is the evidence for believing that the world is prefabricated to the end of life, that the design is built into the laws of nature, the less credible becomes the special creationist worldview.

(Dr. Michael Denton, molecular biochemist, Nature's Destiny (1998) pp p. xvii-xviii) (emphasis mine)

LOL And YOU have the utter gall to call ME "dishonest"

Actually, I didn't. If you calm down and read what I wrote, you will find that I assumed that you weren't the culprit, but had merely trusted someone who lied to you.

I guess if one is able to falsely accuse both God the Father AND his Son LIARS about THEIR Creation,

I didn't say you did that, either. I think you honestly believe your new revision of Genesis, and don't consider the contradictions therein. Most creationists don't consider God a liar, they just don't want to believe Genesis as it is.
 
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jJIM THINNSEN

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I'll quote myself, 236 is on chromosome #2:

See post #358 for a refutation of number 1 through 4. I'll await your response.

Post #358:
Why do you feel a NEED for theistic evolution?

Here are other posts you haven't responded to:

Genetics:

Post 236:
Why do you feel a NEED for theistic evolution?
Post 266:
Why do you feel a NEED for theistic evolution?

Geology:
Post 313:
Why do you feel a NEED for theistic evolution?

Paleontology:
Post 376 and 377 (Which wasn't directed to you but you have suggested is false without clarity):
Why do you feel a NEED for theistic evolution?
Why do you feel a NEED for theistic evolution?

And just because I enjoyed this one:

Post #347
Why do you feel a NEED for theistic evolution?

If Man and ape share a common ancestor, why does man have only 46 chromosomes yet apes have 48?

So after your "explanation," it must follow that you believe that similar chromosome count is evidence for common ancestry.. Is that correct?
 
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jJIM THINNSEN

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Because you never read the book, you were easily fooled by a carefully edited quote. But here's what Denton actually thinks:

Contrary to the creationist position, the whole argument presented here is critically dependent on the presumption of the unbroken continuity of the organic world--that is, on the reality of organic evolution and on the presumption that all living organisms on earth are natural forms in the profoundest sense of the word, no less natural than salt crystals, atoms, waterfalls, or galaxies.

In large measure, therefore, the teleological argument presented here and the special creationist worldview are mutually exclusive accounts of the world. In the last analysis, evidence for one is evidence against the other. Put simply, the more convincing is the evidence for believing that the world is prefabricated to the end of life, that the design is built into the laws of nature, the less credible becomes the special creationist worldview.

(Dr. Michael Denton, molecular biochemist, Nature's Destiny (1998) pp p. xvii-xviii) (emphasis mine)



Actually, I didn't. If you calm down and read what I wrote, you will find that I assumed that you weren't the culprit, but had merely trusted someone who lied to you.



I didn't say you did that, either. I think you honestly believe your new revision of Genesis, and don't consider the contradictions therein. Most creationists don't consider God a liar, they just don't want to believe Genesis as it is.

"I think you honestly believe your new revision of Genesis,

LOL. Projection isnt really your strong suit is it sport?

"and don't consider the contradictions therein."

Right, like DNA, Red blood cells and measurable C14 that is being found in Dinosaur remains today that DESTROY your "new revision" of Genesis that REQUIRES Dinosaurs to have existed "100,000,000 years" ago before they "Evolved into Birds" Yeah.. One cant make it up can they.. The jokes write themselves... I can just see it now ..The T Rex S L O W L Y evolving into a hummingbird... Makes sense right?

Here is another quote for you.. You will simply call it a "Dishonest quote mine" without any evidence like the wannabe Apes always do.. that's OK.

"Scientists who utterly reject Evolution may be one of our fastest growing controversial minorities...Many of the scientists supporting this position hold impressive credentials in science."

(Larry Hatfield, "Educators Against Darwin,")
 
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jJIM THINNSEN

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Because you never read the book, you were easily fooled by a carefully edited quote. But here's what Denton actually thinks:

Contrary to the creationist position, the whole argument presented here is critically dependent on the presumption of the unbroken continuity of the organic world--that is, on the reality of organic evolution and on the presumption that all living organisms on earth are natural forms in the profoundest sense of the word, no less natural than salt crystals, atoms, waterfalls, or galaxies.

In large measure, therefore, the teleological argument presented here and the special creationist worldview are mutually exclusive accounts of the world. In the last analysis, evidence for one is evidence against the other. Put simply, the more convincing is the evidence for believing that the world is prefabricated to the end of life, that the design is built into the laws of nature, the less credible becomes the special creationist worldview.

(Dr. Michael Denton, molecular biochemist, Nature's Destiny (1998) pp p. xvii-xviii) (emphasis mine)



Actually, I didn't. If you calm down and read what I wrote, you will find that I assumed that you weren't the culprit, but had merely trusted someone who lied to you.



I didn't say you did that, either. I think you honestly believe your new revision of Genesis, and don't consider the contradictions therein. Most creationists don't consider God a liar, they just don't want to believe Genesis as it is.

I guess if one is able to falsely accuse both God the Father AND his Son LIARS about THEIR Creation

"I didn't say you did that, either"

But I DID say that.... BECAUSE YOU ARE DOING THAT.. Get the idea?
 
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The Barbarian

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I guess if one is able to falsely accuse both God the Father AND his Son LIARS about THEIR Creation

I didn't say you did that, either. I think you honestly believe your new revision of Genesis, and don't consider the contradictions therein. Most creationists don't consider God a liar, they just don't want to believe Genesis as it is.

But I DID say that.... BECAUSE YOU ARE DOING THAT..

No, I'm merely accepting His word as it is. You don't think you're calling God a liar, and because you don't realize that you're changing His word, you're not guilty of it. I suppose that it's possible, in the back of your mind, you're not very sure of your new belief, and you're accusing others to firm up your resolve.

Get the idea?

I'll give you the benefit of a doubt.
 
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The Barbarian

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Right, like DNA, Red blood cells and measurable C14 that is being found in Dinosaur remains today

So far, no DNA has been found in dinosaur remains. No intact RBCs, either, but they did find some heme (fragment of hemoglobin molecules). Interestingly, the heme from a T-rex turned out to be more like that of a bird than like the heme of other reptiles, confirming once more the prediction that birds and dinosaurs are most closely related. The only C-14 results reported so far, is at the limit of the testing equipment, meaning that it's indistinguishable from errors. Since C-14 forms from nitrogen exposed to radiation, and since many dinosaur bones are found in strata with trace amounts of radioactive uranium and thorium, it's not surprising that a tiny amount forms over the years.

that DESTROY your "new revision" of Genesis that REQUIRES Dinosaurs to have existed "100,000,000 years" ago before they "Evolved into Birds" Yeah..

You inadvertently provided another source of evidence for the fact that birds evolved from dinosaurs.

I can just see it now ..The T Rex S L O W L Y evolving into a hummingbird... Makes sense right?

You've been taken once again. The dinosaurs that gave rise to birds were much smaller than you are.

Here is another quote for you.. You will simply call it a "Dishonest quote mine" without any evidence like the wannabe Apes always do.. that's OK.

"Scientists who utterly reject Evolution may be one of our fastest growing controversial minorities...Many of the scientists supporting this position hold impressive credentials in science."

It's one of those throwaway lines, no evidence offered, not even a source. But here's a way to test it:

The Discovery Institute publishes a list of "Scientists Who Doubt Darwin." Project Steve is a list of scientists with PhDs in biology or a related field, who accept evolutionary theory, and are named "Steve" or some variant of that name, like "Stephanie."

Go through the Discovery Institutes's list, counting the Steves with PhDs in biology or a related field and compare. Last time I checked, the doubters comprised about 0.3% of the scientists who accept evolutionary theory. That's not three percent; it's three-tenths of a percent.

Pretty much says it all, um? Do you now see why the bandwagon argument is such a loser for creationism?
 
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Job 33:6

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If Man and ape share a common ancestor, why does man have only 46 chromosomes yet apes have 48?

I'll quote myself, post# 236 is on chromosome #2:

See post #358 for a refutation of number 1 through 4. I'll await your response.

Post #358:
Why do you feel a NEED for theistic evolution?

Here are other posts you haven't responded to:

Genetics:

Post 236:
Why do you feel a NEED for theistic evolution?
Post 266:
Why do you feel a NEED for theistic evolution?

Geology:
Post 313:
Why do you feel a NEED for theistic evolution?

Paleontology:
Post 376 and 377 (Which wasn't directed to you but you have suggested is false without clarity):
Why do you feel a NEED for theistic evolution?
Why do you feel a NEED for theistic evolution?

And just because I enjoyed this one:

Post #347
Why do you feel a NEED for theistic evolution?


So after your "explanation," it must follow that you believe that similar chromosome count is evidence for common ancestry.. Is that correct?

No, it is not. I would recommend taking time to read, listen and learn. Rather than trying to teach scientists about science.
 
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The Barbarian

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If Man and ape share a common ancestor, why does man have only 46 chromosomes yet apes have 48?

Because one human chromosome looks just like two ape chromosomes fused together. Chromosome fusions happen from time to time. The cool thing is, there's a way to test for it. Remains of telomeres (DNA sequences at the end of chromosomes) should be present at the presumptive fusion site on the human chromosome. Turns out, there are, and that confirms the fact.

chromosomes-300x255.jpg


So after your "explanation," it must follow that you believe that similar chromosome count is evidence for common ancestry.. Is that correct?

Nope. And you've learned something new, again.
 
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jJIM THINNSEN

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I didn't say you did that, either. I think you honestly believe your new revision of Genesis, and don't consider the contradictions therein. Most creationists don't consider God a liar, they just don't want to believe Genesis as it is.



No, I'm merely accepting His word as it is. You don't think you're calling God a liar, and because you don't realize that you're changing His word, you're not guilty of it. I suppose that it's possible, in the back of your mind, you're not very sure of your new belief, and you're accusing others to firm up your resolve.



" I'm merely accepting His word as it is"

No that is NOT what you are doing.,..

These are Jesus words.. Do you accept them? Simple question.

Jesus said "37As it was in the days of Noah, so will it be at the coming of the Son of Man. 38For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark… 39And they were oblivious, until the flood came and swept them all away."

Jesus said "6However, from the beginning of creation, ‘God made them male and female.’"

Let me point our for our readers, this is NOT evolution!! ( I can explain it if need be)

Jesus said 51from the blood of Abel to the blood of Zechariah, who was killed between the altar and the sanctuary. Yes, I tell you, all of it will be charged to this generation."

Yes, this is the SAME Abel that was born to.... ADAM AND EVE... Do you believe in the Garden of Eden? It is CLEARLY what Gods word says (That you claim to accept) Pretty arrogant to think that YOU (who werent there) know BETTER than God (Who WAS there) don't you think??

Here is the word of God the Father.. Do you accept it as it is? Simple Question! BTW there is not ONE Hebrew scholar that I know of that disputes that the word YOM refers to a 24 hour day. It CLEARLY says that in the beginning God made all creatures to bring forth AFTER THEIR OWN KIND!!! Which happens to be what we observe (Empirical Science based on the Scientific Method) TODAY!!!
That is NOT evolution! ( I can explain it if need be)


1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
2 Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.
3 And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light.
4 God saw that the light was good, and he separated the light from the darkness.
5 God called the light “day,” and the darkness he called “night.” And there was evening, and there was morning—the first day.
6 And God said, “Let there be a vault between the waters to separate water from water.”
7 So God made the vault and separated the water under the vault from the water above it. And it was so.
8 God called the vault “sky.” And there was evening, and there was morning—the second day.
9 And God said, “Let the water under the sky be gathered to one place, and let dry ground appear.” And it was so.
10 God called the dry ground “land,” and the gathered waters he called “seas.” And God saw that it was good.
11 Then God said, “Let the land produce vegetation: seed-bearing plants and trees on the land that bear fruit with seed in it, according to their various kinds.” And it was so.
12 The land produced vegetation: plants bearing seed according to their kinds and trees bearing fruit with seed in it according to their kinds. And God saw that it was good.
13 And there was evening, and there was morning—the third day.
14 And God said, “Let there be lights in the vault of the sky to separate the day from the night, and let them serve as signs to mark sacred times, and days and years,
15 and let them be lights in the vault of the sky to give light on the earth.” And it was so.
16 God made two great lights—the greater light to govern the day and the lesser light to govern the night. He also made the stars.
17 God set them in the vault of the sky to give light on the earth,
18 to govern the day and the night, and to separate light from darkness. And God saw that it was good.
19 And there was evening, and there was morning—the fourth day.
20 And God said, “Let the water teem with living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth across the vault of the sky.”
21 So God created the great creatures of the sea and every living thing with which the water teems and that moves about in it, according to their kinds, and every winged bird according to its kind. And God saw that it was good.
22 God blessed them and said, “Be fruitful and increase in number and fill the water in the seas, and let the birds increase on the earth.”
23 And there was evening, and there was morning—the fifth day.
24 And God said, “Let the land produce living creatures according to their kinds: the livestock, the creatures that move along the ground, and the wild animals, each according to its kind.” And it was so.
25 God made the wild animals according to their kinds, the livestock according to their kinds, and all the creatures that move along the ground according to their kinds. And God saw that it was good.
26 Then God said, “Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness, so that they may rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky, over the livestock and all the wild animals, and over all the creatures that move along the ground.”
27 So God created mankind in his own image, in the image of God he created them; male and female he created them.
28 God blessed them and said to them, “Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky and over every living creature that moves on the ground.”
29 Then God said, “I give you every seed-bearing plant on the face of the whole earth and every tree that has fruit with seed in it. They will be yours for food.
30 And to all the beasts of the earth and all the birds in the sky and all the creatures that move along the ground—everything that has the breath of life in it—I give every green plant for food.” And it was so.
31 God saw all that he had made, and it was very good. And there was evening, and there was morning—the sixth day.
 
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jJIM THINNSEN

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I'll quote myself, post# 236 is on chromosome #2:

See post #358 for a refutation of number 1 through 4. I'll await your response.

Post #358:
Why do you feel a NEED for theistic evolution?

Here are other posts you haven't responded to:

Genetics:

Post 236:
Why do you feel a NEED for theistic evolution?
Post 266:
Why do you feel a NEED for theistic evolution?

Geology:
Post 313:
Why do you feel a NEED for theistic evolution?

Paleontology:
Post 376 and 377 (Which wasn't directed to you but you have suggested is false without clarity):
Why do you feel a NEED for theistic evolution?
Why do you feel a NEED for theistic evolution?

And just because I enjoyed this one:

Post #347
Why do you feel a NEED for theistic evolution?




No, it is not. I would recommend taking time to read, listen and learn. Rather than trying to teach scientists about science.

So if Chromosome count is NOT evidence for common ancestry, Why the need to mention that man has 46 chromosomes with 2 "fused" chromosomes so it matches the apes who have 48 Chromosomes??
You obviously haven't thought this through...
 
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jJIM THINNSEN

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Because one human chromosome looks just like two ape chromosomes fused together. Chromosome fusions happen from time to time. The cool thing is, there's a way to test for it. Remains of telomeres (DNA sequences at the end of chromosomes) should be present at the presumptive fusion site on the human chromosome. Turns out, there are, and that confirms the fact.

chromosomes-300x255.jpg




Nope. And you've learned something new, again.

So if Chromosome count is NOT evidence for common ancestry, Why the need to mention that man has 46 chromosomes with 2 "fused" chromosomes so it matches the apes who have 48 Chromosomes??
You obviously haven't thought this through...
 
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Job 33:6

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So if Chromosome count is NOT evidence for common ancestry, Why the need to mention that man has 46 chromosomes with 2 "fused" chromosomes so it matches the apes who have 48 Chromosomes??
You obviously haven't thought this through...

I would recommend watching the video again.


What else do you see discussed in the above video?
 
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jJIM THINNSEN

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Because one human chromosome looks just like two ape chromosomes fused together. Chromosome fusions happen from time to time. The cool thing is, there's a way to test for it. Remains of telomeres (DNA sequences at the end of chromosomes) should be present at the presumptive fusion site on the human chromosome. Turns out, there are, and that confirms the fact.

chromosomes-300x255.jpg




Nope. And you've learned something new, again.

Being told ignorant assertions is not "Learning something new" It is the opposite.. It is ANTI Knowledge...

Here is a good Article by Kim Balogh (FOR OUR READERS)

I'm guessing that she knows a lot more than you do on this subject as does Tomkins.. LOL

But then again, you think you know more than God about his creation so I wont put it past you..

The ape and human chromosomes are remarkably divergent and too different for “ape to human evolution” theory to adequately explain. For example, the human Y chromosome has twice as many genes as the chimpanzee Y chromosome and the chromosome structures are not at all similar.

There are laws of embryology that directly contradict “ape to human evolution.” One reason is that genes work together in teams to form body parts during embryonic development. This makes it impossible to add genes to any genome because there is no way to coordinate any new gene with existing genes. Yet “ape to human evolution” requires apes and humans to be able to add genes – for example, the chimpanzee Y chromosome has 37 genes and the human Y chromosome has at least 78 genes.

The laws of genetics prevent “ape to human evolution” from ever taking place. One reason is there is no genetic mechanism that creates new genes. But “ape to human evolution” relies on apes and humans having the ability to create new genes with new functions. New genes are required in order to have morphological changes, such as gills into lungs or more efficient brains. So called “gene duplication” is not evidence that organisms can create new genes. Although bacteria can duplicate existing genes by mistake through “gene duplication,” this only occurs in single sex bacteria and this is not evidence that apes and humans can create new genes with new functions.

Darwinians have no explanation for why humans and apes have a different number of chromosomes. Darwinians claim that “chromosome fusion” of two ape chromosomes into a single chromosome resulted in humans having only 23 pairs of chromosomes while apes have 24 pairs. But there is not one example of “chromosome fusion” in mammals. Darwinians claim that 1 in 1000 human babies have a “fused chromosome” but this is an out and out lie. They are actually referring to Robertsonian Translocations, which are “translocations” and not fused chromosomes and does not result in a change in the chromosome number. Besides, scientifically derived facts refute “chromosome fusion” can occur in apes or humans.

Darwinians are lying when they insist that the genetic matter of apes and humans are 98% identical. During the last 12 years, there has been a steady flow of scientific discoveries informing us that Chimpanzee and human chromosomes are so remarkably different that it is inconceivable for the ape genome to evolve into the human genome. The human Y chromosome has twice as many genes as the Chimpanzee Y chromosome. Humans have at least 78 genes and Chimpanzees have only 37.

The Y chromosomes of Chimpanzees and humans are radically different in the arrangement of their genes. Both of these facts make it impossible for apes to have evolved into humans because there are no genetic mechanisms that would account for the vast differences between the ape and human Y chromosomes.The human Y chromosome has twice as many genes as the Chimpanzee Y chromosome. Humans have 35 more genes.

This means that in order for the ape Y chromosome to evolve into the human Y chromosome, apes had to add 35 genes. In order for apes to add genes, they would have to have a genetic mechanism to generate new genes and insert them into their chromosomes.

But apes do not have any “gene generating system.” Similarities in no way mean likeness and while the is similarities are emphasized but the Darwinist; they play no importance on the vast differences. For a look at the studies, check out the following link.

A genome-wide survey of structural variation between human and chimpanzee
 
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jJIM THINNSEN

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So far, no DNA has been found in dinosaur remains. No intact RBCs, either, but they did find some heme (fragment of hemoglobin molecules). Interestingly, the heme from a T-rex turned out to be more like that of a bird than like the heme of other reptiles, confirming once more the prediction that birds and dinosaurs are most closely related. The only C-14 results reported so far, is at the limit of the testing equipment, meaning that it's indistinguishable from errors. Since C-14 forms from nitrogen exposed to radiation, and since many dinosaur bones are found in strata with trace amounts of radioactive uranium and thorium, it's not surprising that a tiny amount forms over the years.



You inadvertently provided another source of evidence for the fact that birds evolved from dinosaurs.



You've been taken once again. The dinosaurs that gave rise to birds were much smaller than you are.



It's one of those throwaway lines, no evidence offered, not even a source. But here's a way to test it:

The Discovery Institute publishes a list of "Scientists Who Doubt Darwin." Project Steve is a list of scientists with PhDs in biology or a related field, who accept evolutionary theory, and are named "Steve" or some variant of that name, like "Stephanie."

Go through the Discovery Institutes's list, counting the Steves with PhDs in biology or a related field and compare. Last time I checked, the doubters comprised about 0.3% of the scientists who accept evolutionary theory. That's not three percent; it's three-tenths of a percent.

Pretty much says it all, um? Do you now see why the bandwagon argument is such a loser for creationism?


"So far, no DNA has been found in dinosaur remains."

Not that it would matter to you if it was right? You would just convince yourself that DNA could last 100,000,000 years anyway! ANYTHING but believe God about his creation!

HOWEVER!

This is for our readers to enjoy as this is not a debate but just me exposing Satans lie of evolutionism..

YOU PROBABLY WONT EVEN READ IT..

20200120-dinosaur-blood-DNA-chromosomes-NSR-ico.jpg

Dinosaurs

February 28, 2020 | David F. Coppedge
Dinosaur DNA Found!
Deep-timers had a big enough problem with collagen and melanosomes. But DNA should be long gone. 75 million years? No way!

Could this be the last straw? For two decades now, especially since 2005, creationists have been challenging deep-timers (those who believe life is hundreds of millions of years old, and earth is 4.5 billion years old) with dinosaur soft tissue. Secular reports have been coming in regularly about soft tissue in fossils: feathers, melanosomes, collagen, various proteins, and materials in dinosaur bones that look like stretchy blood vessels and red blood cells. Evolutionists have been scrambling to find chemical mechanisms that might stabilize the molecules over deep time (see 18 Feb 2020 for latest attempt). They trot out their theories as ‘proof’ that soft tissues can survive tens of millions of years, never taking seriously the creationist critiques, which include the fact that evolutionists themselves had already predicted that soft tissues could not survive anywhere near that long.

But DNA? That’s impossible. Sorry, Jurassic Park fans; DNA degrades way too fast. Evolutionists know that.

Well, the gig is up. A team including Jack Horner and Mary Schweitzer just reported DNA found in a young hadrosaur (duck-billed dinosaur) from Montana. The paper was published January 20, 2020, in National Science Review. Bailleul et al., “Evidence of proteins, chromosomes and chemical markers of DNA in exceptionally preserved dinosaur cartilage.” Look at the reaction reported by Phys.org, in their article, “Cartilage cells, chromosomes and DNA preserved in 75 million-year-old baby duck-billed dinosaur.”

Microscopic analyses of skull fragments from these nestling dinosaurs were conducted by Alida Bailleul at the Museum of the Rockies. In one fragment she noticed some exquisitely preserved cells within preserved calcified cartilage tissues on the edges of a bone. Two cartilage cells were still linked together by an intercellular bridge, morphologically consistent with the end of cell division (see left image below). Internally, dark material resembling a cell nucleus was also visible. One cartilage cell preserved dark elongated structures morphologically consistent with chromosomes (center image below). “I couldn’t believe it, my heart almost stopped beating,” Bailleul says.


Dividing cells with chromosomes and DNA in hadrosaur bone. Bailleul et al, “Evidence of proteins, chromosomes and chemical markers of DNA in exceptionally preserved dinosaur cartilage,” NSR 20 Jan 2020. Figure from Phys.org 28 Feb 2020, “Cartilage cells, chromosomes and DNA preserved in 75 million-year-old baby duck-billed dinosaur.”

But was it really DNA, or did it just look like DNA? Go look at the pictures yourself and read what they say:

The researchers also isolated individual Hypacrosaurus cartilage cells and applied two DNA-stains, DAPI (4′,6-diamidino-2-phenylindole) and PI (propidium iodide). These bind specifically to DNA fragments in extant material, and some of the isolated dinosaur cells showed internal, positive binding in the same pattern as seen in modern cells, suggesting some original dinosaur DNA is preserved (see below, right image).

Yes, see the image. The paper is open-access for all to see for themselves. To rub it in, let’s see how these secular deep-time believers respond to this evidence. Could DNA really last 75 million years?

The possibility that DNA can survive for tens of millions of years is not currently recognized by the scientific community. Rather, based upon kinetic experiments and modelling, it is generally accepted that DNA persists less than 1 million years.

Well, that “generally accepted” belief has just been falsified. Something has to give. Either DNA can last that long, or the dinosaur bones are not that old. Which option do you think they will take?

“These new exciting results add to growing evidence that cells and some of their biomolecules can persist in deep-time. They suggest DNA can preserve for tens of millions of years, and we hope that this study will encourage scientists working on ancient DNA to push current limits and to use new methodology in order to reveal all the unknown molecular secrets that ancient tissues have,” Bailleul says….

These new data support other results that suggest DNA in some form can persist in Mesozoic tissues, and lay the foundation for future efforts to recover and sequence DNA from other very ancient fossils in laboratories worldwide.

And yet creation research has shown that there are strict upper limits on the survival of DNA. It cannot be tens of millions of years old. See Sarfati’s article at Creation.com, and Brian Thomas’s article at ICR.org (Thomas has since completed his PhD).

Update 5 March 2020: Michael J. Benton, professor of vertebrate paleontology at the University of Bristol, doesn’t believe it. He writes today in The Conversation, “Has dinosaur DNA been found? An expert explains what we really know.” It would be a “hugely significant find” he says, “If accurate….” Benton relies on the Saitta paper (see 18 June 2019), choosing to believe that what the scientists found is contamination or microbes. Most interesting is his agreement that DNA cannot survive for long.

Those studying what they believe to be ancient DNA are now careful to decontaminate their samples and work in antiseptic conditions. But we now also know that DNA molecules break down very easily and will typically survive only a few years. Hundred-year-old samples of DNA from museum specimens are massively fragmented and the breakdown of their molecular structure continues rapidly.

By using massive computing resources, DNA from fossils maybe 50,000 years old can be reconstructed from millions of short fragments. The oldest such samples are 700,000 years old – a long way from the 66 million years of the last dinosaurs.

Given this admission, it will be very hard for paleontologists like Benton to deny that the dinosaurs died within a few thousand years, if the evidence continues to prove convincing beyond reasonable doubt.

Sidestepping Tactic

20200120-NSR-dinosaur-softtissue-artwork-cartilagecell.jpg

Artist conception of the habitat of Hypacrosaurus.

In the face of falsification, some scientists cannot give up. Instead, they distract attention. This reaction is just like the joke we have told before about the man who thought he was dead. His doctor asks, “Do dead men bleed?” “No, dead men do not bleed,” replied the delusional man, upon which the doctor pricked the man’s finger and blood oozed out. “Well, I’ll be darned!” the man said. “Dead men do bleed!”

Now suppose the delusional ‘dead’ man immediately changes the subject, and engages in sidestepping. He tells his doctor excitedly, “This is terrific! Think of the new research possibilities this opens up. We can now go into graveyards and recover the blood from the dead in order to determine their blood types and learn more about the evolution of bleeding in dead people!”

Whoever swallows that line would be delusional as well.

OK, creationists, it’s time to take charge of this situation and go on offense, because the deep-time moyboys are acting very offensively. They are backtracking on their own upper limits on lifetime for biomolecules that they previously believed. Young ages for DNA are logical conclusions from the evidence in front of their eyes. DNA degrades very quickly. Under the best conditions for preservation, encased in ice inside a sterilized chamber, DNA would still degrade in a tiny fraction of the assumed age. The claim it can last for tens of millions of years is now a complete myth. It’s a mere assertion stated by faith to support a prior belief in deep time.

This discovery pounds the deep time myth into the ground. Another hammer is the finding of carbon-14 in dinosaur bones, which should be completely absent in 100,000 years. This new paper should clinch the case. To me, it’s almost as solid as finding Noah’s Ark on Mt Ararat with rooms for animals and all the dimensions and characteristics described in the Bible. Couldn’t you hear the evolutionists try to say that it evolved up there over millions of years!

What will the evolutionists do? Oh, we know exactly what they will do. They will do what they always do. They will continue like the delusional dead man, claiming that it proves DNA can last for tens of millions of years. They will say it ‘sheds light on evolution.’ Don’t let them get away with it. They must be shamed in public!

Print pictures from the paper. Show them to people, and say, “what does this look like?” Tell them it’s DNA, chromosomes and proteins found in a fossil. Show them the stretchy blood vessels. Then drop the bomb: “These are actual pictures from dinosaur bones.” Pause and watch for the effect: wide eyes, disbelief, incredulous looks. Then read the quotes you have prepared beforehand by evolutionists saying that these materials degrade quickly and cannot last even one million years, let alone 75 million. Let the evidence sink in, before saying, “The Bible says all the fossils were formed in a global Flood that buried all the animals just a few thousand years ago. Doesn’t that make better sense? The secular scientists need all those millions of years because they follow Darwin, their idol.” Keep showing the photos, and say, “Imagine a Darwinist here with us asking you, ‘Who are you going to believe, me or your lyin’ eyes?'”

If the friend continues to look interested, explain the implications. “This means that all those stories about animals evolving over millions of years is not true. It’s a myth. The Bible was right. These animals, including dinosaurs, perished in the Flood only a few thousand years ago. The Bible can be trusted after all. Did you know that Jesus believed that Adam and Eve were created from the beginning along with the world and all its life? Have you heard what he did for you and me? He loved us so much he died for us. Then he rose from the dead. He’s alive, and he is waiting for people like us to repent and give our lives to him. Look again at these pictures. Thousands of years old, not tens of millions. Evolution is false. We were created by a loving God who wants to forgive us and give us eternal life.” Quote John 3:16 and other salvation scriptures.
 
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jJIM THINNSEN

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So far, no DNA has been found in dinosaur remains. No intact RBCs, either, but they did find some heme (fragment of hemoglobin molecules). Interestingly, the heme from a T-rex turned out to be more like that of a bird than like the heme of other reptiles, confirming once more the prediction that birds and dinosaurs are most closely related. The only C-14 results reported so far, is at the limit of the testing equipment, meaning that it's indistinguishable from errors. Since C-14 forms from nitrogen exposed to radiation, and since many dinosaur bones are found in strata with trace amounts of radioactive uranium and thorium, it's not surprising that a tiny amount forms over the years.



You inadvertently provided another source of evidence for the fact that birds evolved from dinosaurs.



You've been taken once again. The dinosaurs that gave rise to birds were much smaller than you are.



It's one of those throwaway lines, no evidence offered, not even a source. But here's a way to test it:

The Discovery Institute publishes a list of "Scientists Who Doubt Darwin." Project Steve is a list of scientists with PhDs in biology or a related field, who accept evolutionary theory, and are named "Steve" or some variant of that name, like "Stephanie."

Go through the Discovery Institutes's list, counting the Steves with PhDs in biology or a related field and compare. Last time I checked, the doubters comprised about 0.3% of the scientists who accept evolutionary theory. That's not three percent; it's three-tenths of a percent.

Pretty much says it all, um? Do you now see why the bandwagon argument is such a loser for creationism?

"No intact RBCs, either,"

Hmm.. Who should we believe.. YOU or our LYING EYES!!

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OIP.Q-ilfShw7c_87clbH9PdFAHaFB


OIP.6PN0o3EivPJPLSoIci4clwHaFj
OIP.mm9ngW5j7voODSkEalGZTgHaFj
 
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jJIM THINNSEN

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So far, no DNA has been found in dinosaur remains. No intact RBCs, either, but they did find some heme (fragment of hemoglobin molecules). Interestingly, the heme from a T-rex turned out to be more like that of a bird than like the heme of other reptiles, confirming once more the prediction that birds and dinosaurs are most closely related. The only C-14 results reported so far, is at the limit of the testing equipment, meaning that it's indistinguishable from errors. Since C-14 forms from nitrogen exposed to radiation, and since many dinosaur bones are found in strata with trace amounts of radioactive uranium and thorium, it's not surprising that a tiny amount forms over the years.



You inadvertently provided another source of evidence for the fact that birds evolved from dinosaurs.



You've been taken once again. The dinosaurs that gave rise to birds were much smaller than you are.



It's one of those throwaway lines, no evidence offered, not even a source. But here's a way to test it:

The Discovery Institute publishes a list of "Scientists Who Doubt Darwin." Project Steve is a list of scientists with PhDs in biology or a related field, who accept evolutionary theory, and are named "Steve" or some variant of that name, like "Stephanie."

Go through the Discovery Institutes's list, counting the Steves with PhDs in biology or a related field and compare. Last time I checked, the doubters comprised about 0.3% of the scientists who accept evolutionary theory. That's not three percent; it's three-tenths of a percent.

Pretty much says it all, um? Do you now see why the bandwagon argument is such a loser for creationism?


"Last time I checked, the doubters comprised about 0.3% of the scientists who accept evolutionary theory."

Argumentum Ad Vercundiam / Ad Populum / Ab Auctoritate Logical fallacies galore....


“I want to pause here and talk about this notion of consensus, and the rise of what has been called consensus science.

I regard consensus science as an extremely pernicious development that ought to be stopped cold in its tracks.

Historically, the claim of consensus has been the first refuge of scoundrels; it is a way to avoid debate by claiming that the matter is already settled.

Whenever you hear the consensus of scientists agrees on something or other, reach for your wallet, because you’re being had. “Let’s be clear: the work of science has nothing whatever to do with consensus.

Consensus is the business of politics. Science, on the contrary, requires only one investigator who happens to be right, which means that he or she has results that are verifiable by reference to the real world.

In science consensus is irrelevant. What is relevant is reproducible results. The greatest scientists in history are great precisely because they broke with the consensus.

“There is no such thing as consensus science. If it’s consensus, it isn’t science. If it’s science, it isn’t consensus. Period.”

[Crichton gave a number of examples where the scientific consensus was completely wrong for many years.] “…

Finally, I would remind you to notice where the claim of consensus is invoked. Consensus is invoked only in situations where the science is not solid enough. Nobody says the consensus of scientists agrees that E = mc². Nobody says the consensus is that the sun is 93 million miles away. It would never occur to anyone to speak that way.” Michael Chrichton
 
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The Barbarian

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(Argumentum Ad Vercundiam / Ad Populum / Ab Auctoritate Logical fallacies galore....)

"Scientists who utterly reject Evolution may be one of our fastest growing controversial minorities...Many of the scientists supporting this position hold impressive credentials in science."

Barbarian chuckles:
But here's a way to test it:

The Discovery Institute publishes a list of "Scientists Who Doubt Darwin." Project Steve is a list of scientists with PhDs in biology or a related field, who accept evolutionary theory, and are named "Steve" or some variant of that name, like "Stephanie."

Go through the Discovery Institutes's list, counting the Steves with PhDs in biology or a related field and compare. Last time I checked, the doubters comprised about 0.3% of the scientists who accept evolutionary theory. That's not three percent; it's three-tenths of a percent.

Pretty much says it all, um? Do you now see why the bandwagon argument is such a loser for creationism?

I want to pause here and talk about this notion of consensus, and the rise of what has been called consensus science.

I regard consensus science as an extremely pernicious development that ought to be stopped cold in its tracks.

If you do, it wasn't a very smart move for you to be posting this:
"Scientists who utterly reject Evolution may be one of our fastest growing controversial minorities...Many of the scientists supporting this position hold impressive credentials in science."

As you now realize, that was a huge mistake for you. The bandwagon argument is logically faulty to begin with. And as you have seen, it's also factually wrong; only a tiny percent of biologists doubt evolutionary theory.
 
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